ubertech
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Post by ubertech on Nov 19, 2015 2:27:05 GMT -5
I seem to remember POOP is an appropriate acronym hereabouts and not though of as very high up the hierarchy of good sounds - this sounds ok just intrigued now..so a little question to finish up If OOP is the general term, which is more common in phase circuits (ie what are we more used to hearing) SOOP OR POOP? It seems to me that manufacturers often take the cheaper option in mass production - so we see coil split rather than parallel as a general 'thinning' option - so is it more usual to hear POOP, when phase appears?
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Post by newey on Nov 19, 2015 20:09:19 GMT -5
Most guitar pickups are wired together in parallel, not series. There are a few notable exceptions-old Teiscos and Brian May Guitars being the best-known exceptions. So, POOP predominates.
However, the consensus is usually that SOOP sounds better and is more useful, because pickups wired in series (all other things being equal) have a higher output. When one is then wired OOP, there is less cancellation of the signal than with a parallel connection, and so a more usable signal.
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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 19, 2015 22:24:19 GMT -5
When one is then wired OOP, there is less cancellation of the signal than with a parallel connection, and so a more usable signal. Well...The same cancellation of a signal which is stronger to begin with, so the final level is stronger. I think also that the fact that the series connection is significantly darker makes the SOOP a bit more midrange "nasal" than high end "thin", if that makes any sense.
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Post by newey on Nov 20, 2015 5:29:32 GMT -5
Yes, that's what I was trying, rather inarticulately, to express.
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 20, 2015 14:11:51 GMT -5
I think parallel out of phase can be just fine so long as one of the pickups is connected via a capacitor.
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ubertech
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Post by ubertech on Nov 26, 2015 2:15:51 GMT -5
I think parallel out of phase can be just fine so long as one of the pickups is connected via a capacitor. hi guys thanks for the replies I like the POOP sound, but I love the 'BM' SOOP sound. At the risk of now updating this scheme which works really well. Is it possible to add in a switch that either: A) switches from system parallel to series? b) switches in the cap (what value) that reTrEaD talks of? Im sure this must have been discussed before, so in the event it has, do you have an idea of which thread it is in? Thanks in advance UT Current scheme: 2 HB in system parallel; push pulls for POOP and independent Coil split
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Post by newey on Nov 26, 2015 8:09:40 GMT -5
Switching in the cap is easily done with an extra switch. It would be interposed between the phase switch and the 3-way selector. This is the so-called "half OOP" or "HOOP" option. so the switch would be a "POOP/HOOP" switch. It will also bleed the one pickup through the cap when the pickups are in phase as well, when the cap switch is thrown but the phase switch is not. This potentially gives you another tone option. You can also wire a cap directly off your phase switch, so that you always had it in the circuit when the phase switch was flipped. In this way, you would always have HOOP and never POOP when the phase was flipped. A series/parallel switch is a bit tougher to do. There is a "down and dirty" way to do it using your existing 3-way switch and adding a DPDT series/paralle switch, but it would come with a compromise- the series connection would only work when the 3-way was set to the "neck only" setting (or in the bridge setting, your choice). When the 3-way was set to either of the other 2 positions, you would have no output. To do it so that the series/parallel overrides the 3-way selector (meaning the 3-way switch would be inoperable when the 2 pickups are in series) would require either a 3-pole switch for the series/parallel switch (which as a practical matter means using a 4-pole toggle, as 3 pole switches are relatively rare). Or, it could be done by replacing the 3-way switch with one having an extra pole. Basically, you'd need an extra pole somewhere to switch the output from the 3-way when in series mode. At least that's how I'm seeing it, but I'm far from the brightest bulb in the chandelier. So, maybe someone else will come along with a more elegant solution.
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 26, 2015 9:55:17 GMT -5
b) switches in the cap (what value) that reTrEaD talks of? Cap value is a matter of taste. I think 22nF is a reasonable value. You would need to change the wiring on your phase switch so that the (green) crossed jumper is replaced by the cap. Also, I think you would need to flip the connections from the pickup leading into the phase switch. Else the cap would be in series in the in-phase mode. There's a discussion that might be of use to you hereA) switches from system parallel to series? John H did a wonderful job of figuring out how to mesh a (dpdt) series switch with a gibson style 3-way. guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3159/jhs-jimmy-pageOnly two poles on the series switch and it doesn't matter which position the 3-way is in when series is selected.
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Post by newey on Nov 26, 2015 11:50:55 GMT -5
Yes, I should have thought of the JHJP. That's the way, then.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 26, 2015 12:04:07 GMT -5
... so the switch would be a "POOP/HOOP" switch. We just added two more acronyms - PHOoP and SHOoP. We're getting as bad as government agencies, we gotta stop this!
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ubertech
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Post by ubertech on Nov 26, 2015 14:58:05 GMT -5
these ideas are stunning well done guys Im now mulling over adding in two micro switches one for the shoop-shoop-poopa-hoop-la and the other for JohnH's series/parallel meld. Thanks for the brilliant ideas and links....Ive never heard the poop/hoop difference, so think I will solder them up before drilling them in to get an idea of sonic results, and then consider how to arrange the switches just one or two double checks: - with a system series/parallel switch, would the coil splits still work as intended; so essentially they will be split but in system series?
- when the system is in series are all pickups on in all positions for the 3 way? or are they in system series in the middle position - Im a little ignorant here and I havent read the links yet
- In the separate hoop/poop switch, I can see how the poop/hoop cap works as a filter - would the cap only actively filter in the centre position for the 3-way? or will the cap also be engaged on the pickup it is attached to all the time (in the case of my v4 diagram, the bridge pup, as it is the one with the phase switch)?
thanks again, UT
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Post by JohnH on Nov 26, 2015 16:50:37 GMT -5
just one or two double checks: - with a system series/parallel switch, would the coil splits still work as intended; so essentially they will be split but in system series?
- when the system is in series are all pickups on in all positions for the 3 way? or are they in system series in the middle position - Im a little ignorant here and I havent read the links yet
Just on the system series parallel switch: The way we normslly draw it, you use the main toggle to set your desired single or parallel sound, then, if you flick the S/P switch to series, the main toggle is over-ridden and you go to both in series no matter where the main toggle is at. But any coil cuts to each pickup are carried through in all settings, so if you cut your coils in single-parallel mode, they are also cut in system series mode. Two singles in series is quite nice!
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Post by reTrEaD on Nov 27, 2015 12:35:30 GMT -5
In the separate hoop/poop switch, I can see how the poop/hoop cap works as a filter - would the cap only actively filter in the centre position for the 3-way? or will the cap also be engaged on the pickup it is attached to all the time (in the case of my v4 diagram, the bridge pup, as it is the one with the phase switch)? Wired correctly, the cap would only be present in the out of phase position. And it would be in series with the out of phase pickup. Result: 0 - When the phase switch is in the "normal" (in-phase) position, any selection by the 3-way gives you what you the sounds you have been accustomed to. Out of phase selections: 1 - When only Neck pickup is selected, the phase switch has no effect. 2 - When only Bridge pickup is selected on the 3-way, the cap strangles the bass content of the out of phase bridge pickup. Since phase is irrelevant when only one pickup is selected, this results in bridge pickup with weak fundamental content. Probably not all that useful. 3 - When both pickups are selected (parallel), the cap strangles the bass content of the out of phase bridge pickup. This results in lower frequencies from the Neck pickup not being canceled out by the low frequencies of the bridge pickup. This will be very useful (imho). 4 - If you add a series switch, the (out of phase) cap would be in series with both pickups (when the phase switch is in the out of phase position). Instead of filtering the content of just the bridge pickup, it strangles the bass on both pickups. Not very useful, imho.
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