|
|
Post by Ro_S on Jan 5, 2019 12:20:56 GMT -5
*bump*
I'd appreciate people's input re: my previous post.
Many thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 23, 2021 15:50:16 GMT -5
Hello, I'm back! Please can you help with my wiring for my mod project. This is about my 5th project. I've completed the mods to the guitar, fitting the new hardware and pickups etc - but now I need to do the wiring! Please refer to top two images below. I've done a draft wiring diagram (second image), but I need it to be checked, please. In particular, I need help with how to wire the tone pots to the import style blade style pickup selector switch (see question marks). Controls: 3-way switch. Single, global volume. Tone control for each pickup. I couldn't find a wiring diagram online for the wiring configuration I want with an import style blade style switch. I need capacitor value suggestions, please. All pots are 500k. The two pickups are low output humbuckers. (Note: The apparent middle 'pickup' area is simply a dummy infill.) There's a separate output jack added for passive piezo circuit, with dedicated volume control. (Note: Many of the ideas on the previous page I've incorporated into my other mod project plans.) Thankyou.      |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 24, 2021 4:55:12 GMT -5
Your diagram looks fine so far. As for the tone controls, either wire them "in-line" after their respective pickups but before the switch (Look at any "modern" LP wiring diagram with separate V and T pots to see how to do so). or you can simply wire each one to one of the lugs on the 3-way on the side that controls that pickup (the two ways are electrically equivalent).
As for cap values, that's a matter of taste. HBs usually get .047µf, but some folks like lower values. I tend to use .033 for both HBs and SCs, but that's just me. Understand that the cap value has no (real) effect with the pot at "10", the difference in values just changes the frequency response as you dial the pot down. You can look at JohnH's discussions of tone controls to see, graphically, how that affects the curve.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 26, 2021 5:24:14 GMT -5
newey - Thankyou. I've gone for the 'in line' method. Please can you check my revised wiring diagram - see below. Thanks! 
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 26, 2021 5:41:42 GMT -5
Your tone control wiring is odd, and I don't think you'll be happy with the results. Wire the input to the wiper (middle lug), and from there to the switch also. Wire the cap between the third lug and ground. The third terminal is not wired to anything.
Also, your grounding scheme, while not wrong, is unnecessarily complicated. Bear in mind that every extra connection is a potential point of failure. You show a "Star ground" scheme, or "grounding buss", but you are also showing grounding to the back of pots. A star ground is typically used to avoid having to solder to the backs of the pots, but you're doing both. Pick one way or the other. If your concern is grounding the backs of pot shells, if you're shielding the cavity, the pot shells are going to be grounded via contact with the shielding anyway.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 26, 2021 10:15:28 GMT -5
neweyThanks! Revised below. Ok now? 
|
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Aug 26, 2021 12:16:38 GMT -5
No that’s worse. Now the pot cases aren’t connected to ground at all, so neither are any of the components connected to them. Don’t connect anything to the pot backs! Send all those ground end connections directly to the star ground. Then separately connect the pot backs to that star. Don’t rely on shield connections to carry audio signals.
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Aug 26, 2021 14:43:35 GMT -5
Don’t rely on shield connections to carry audio signals. Is the shield connection the pot backs and the audio signal running from the capacitor to that Bridge Tone pot back? That capacitor is soldered to the CCW lug and CCW lug is generally to ground, right? I’m sorry, I don’t see the shield connection carrying an audio signal; just trying to learn. Maybe that was just good general advise. 🙂 EDIT: Oh, maybe anything wired to a pot lug is considered an audio signal? Hmmm… if that’s the case, then I have some changes to make too. FINAL-EDIT: opened my guitar and those changes have already been made; thankfully! 😀 |
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 26, 2021 15:16:16 GMT -5
No that’s worse. Now the pot cases aren’t connected to ground at all, so neither are any of the components connected to them. Don’t connect anything to the pot backs! Send all those ground end connections directly to the star ground. Then separately connect the pot backs to that star. Don’t rely on shield connections to carry audio signals. - I probably should've made clearer: the pots are all mounted to a METAL control plate. Doesn't that affect how I do the grounding? |
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Aug 26, 2021 15:43:56 GMT -5
...the pots are all mounted to a METAL control plate... Ahhh... That is a little different. Assuming that metal plate is connected to the jack sleeve one way or another, you don't have to solder anything to the pot backs at all.  For you and unreg: Pot backs and that metal plate are shield connections and should not be relied upon for our audio signal. Audio signals are pretty much anything attached to a pot or switch lug, including the "ground" end of the Tone caps and the "ground" lug of the Volume pot. Use wire for those. The pot backs sort of want to get to ground also in order to maybe help with noise, but you don't want to depend on that connection for your life. Pot backs are too tough to solder to, and that connection too often goes wrong. In this case here is even worse because you're literally depending on the nuts holding the pots to the plate. Those things will come loose. It's not a matter of if, but when. By the Law of Murphy, we can expect that to be exactly when you need that connection most. Don't do be that guy. Connect audio signals via component lugs or wires. |
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 27, 2021 4:30:23 GMT -5
ashcatlt - The output jack is not mounted onto the metal control plate. Do I need to wire Lug 1 (as labelled) of every pot to the grounding bus? Are the tone pots and switch wired correctly? (aside from grounding) Thanks
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Aug 27, 2021 15:23:13 GMT -5
The output jack is not mounted onto the metal control plate. If you somehow connect the jack’s sleeve to your metal control plate, then you don’t need to solder ANYTHING to the backs of your pots; as ashcatlt instructed. 👍 (EDIT: Otherwise, a ground wire from your star ground to a pot case, and then a wire to transfer that ground to each other pot’s case would be necessary. Those other ground wires don’t have to be directly from your star ground; though, ashcatlt’s instructions make tons more sense bc a.) much simpler wiring present and b.) each pot case is free of connections that are tough to make correctly.) Do I need to wire Lug 1 (as labelled) of every pot to the grounding bus? I believe each pot needs ground connected to its grounding lug. Note: I also seem to remember ashcatlt telling me that I could solder the capacitor pin, that used to be grounded to the back of my tone pot, to the unused lug on my tone pot; instead of running a wire from it to my star ground. I thought, after checking last night, that the unused tone pot lug was lug 2, the middle one; but, now I’m not sure after seeing hot wires soldered to the middle lugs of your tone pots. My lighting was dim during my quick guitar electronics check. Sorry, I’m pretty poor when it comes to electronic conversations; hopefully ashcatlt will respond soon. 🙂 |
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Aug 27, 2021 18:48:44 GMT -5
Do I need to wire Lug 1 (as labelled) of every pot to the grounding bus? Well, lug 1 of the V pot, the ground end of the cap on the T pots. I'm pretty sure it is otherwise wired correctly, though honestly I get my CW and CCW confused sometimes... Note: I also seem to remember ashcatlt telling me that I could solder the capacitor pin, that used to be grounded to the back of my tone pot, to the unused lug on my tone pot; instead of running a wire from it to my star ground... I don't think I'd have said that. Maybe you misremember or misinterpreted or it was in some other context. One might connect that capacitor to lug 1 of the V pot, which itself then connects to the star ground, if you found it more convenient than running it to the star separately. |
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Aug 27, 2021 19:41:39 GMT -5
Note: I also seem to remember ashcatlt telling me that I could solder the capacitor pin, that used to be grounded to the back of my tone pot, to the unused lug on my tone pot; instead of running a wire from it to my star ground... I don't think I'd have said that. Maybe you misremember or misinterpreted or it was in some other context. One might connect that capacitor to lug 1 of the V pot, which itself then connects to the star ground, if you found it more convenient than running it to the star separately. Sigh, connecting that T pot capacitor to lug 1 of the V pot would be possible. Maybe I imagined someone telling me about soldering that capacitor pin to an unused lug? 😔 Sry ashcatlt, now it wasn’t your advice. Thank you for the kind correction. |
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 28, 2021 15:08:49 GMT -5
neweyashcatltI revised the diagram. Is this all correct now? Thanks. 
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2021 2:25:29 GMT -5
What type of 3way lever switch is this
|
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Aug 29, 2021 4:10:27 GMT -5
@angellahash
The 3-way switch is an 'import style' Tele style blade style switch.
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 29, 2021 13:52:52 GMT -5
Ro_S: Your revised diagram looks fine.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2021 7:07:30 GMT -5
Ive never used one of them cheap 3 Way switches
i tend to play with the 5 way one S-Type but i did notice they used the same board
so i guess it would be Point 1,3,5 on a 5 way board
would explain the links and the use of 2 location
|
|
|
|
Post by Ro_S on Sept 10, 2021 9:14:49 GMT -5
Ro_S: Your revised diagram looks fine. Thankyou! 👍 |
|
|
|
Post by stevewf on Oct 19, 2021 10:54:20 GMT -5
I've eliminated the separate volume and tone controls for the middle pickup. They'll just be a single, global volume control. I'm proposing 500k pots for all of the volume and tone controls.
Ro_S has updated the design since that version, but I thought I'd throw in a couple points in case anyone's considering similar designs. I really love the flow diagram idea. Seeing it done separately like in this thread has helped me understand that I've been doing that simultaneously while trying to do schematics -- it's the same thing I used to do with mentally mixing wiring diagrams and schematics (before the Nutz helped me evolve). Ro_S has helped me evolve again! OK, so specifically, my comments here pertain to ( v.4): 1) Tone B treble cut pot positioned "before" the pickup selector. Since two pickups are being controlled by a single control but later processed separately, you'll need a two-gang pot here. I presume that you want to be able to cut the highs from each pickup, but also be able to choose a circuit that excludes signal from one pickup while including the other (i.e. bridge pickup without middle and vice-versa). A single-gang pot would permanently mix the signals, making it impossible to separate them "downstream". A two-ganger would enable you to have separate circuits for each pickup until mixing at the desired point. Alternatively, you could move the control "downstream" of the pickup selector switch, next to the Volume control. There you could use a single-ganger, since the pickups' signals will already by mixed at that point. Of course, then the neck pickup output would also already be mixed in, which it looks like is not desired in this design. 2) Tone - Bass cut pot, as JohnH suggests, would probably be better with a higher-resistance pot like 1M. This would produce less "leakage" to ground when the pot's at zero (or 10, depending on which way you wire it). One trouble with bass-cut passive pots is that you're conceding a constant drain, straight to ground, of the pot's input (barring a zero-load pot), at least with the passive bass-cut controls that I know. With a 500K pot, you're letting quite a bit of signal go down the drain even when you're cutting no bass out (and with a 250K, even more); high resistance mitigates that. Also, I like to use pots with reverse-audio tapers for bass cut; that's because I like to hear Clockwise=Fullest Tone. For a bass-cut, that could be translated as "CW=Fat; CCW=Thin", which, to me, is more intuitive than the opposite. If you want a bass cut with a smooth transition all through the knob's turn range, and you want CW=Full, you need a reverse audio pot. So I've had best results with a 1MΩ pot with a reverse-audio taper (typically referred to as a "C" taper, if one is searching for one). They're hard to find. I've bashed two Bourns mini pots together (one being a dual-gang, the other being a 1MA) to get these. Difficult, fidgety, toiling operation. Worth it. |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Oct 19, 2021 11:47:06 GMT -5
So I've had best results with a 1MRA pot. They're hard to find I read that to mean "1MΩ Reverse-audio taper". The reverse-audio taper pots are typically referred to as a "C" taper, if one is searching for one. |
|
|
|
Post by stevewf on Oct 19, 2021 20:06:33 GMT -5
So I've had best results with a 1MRA pot. They're hard to find I read that to mean "1MΩ Reverse-audio taper". The reverse-audio taper pots are typically referred to as a "C" taper, if one is searching for one. Yes, thank you. Yes, thank you. [Edit] and so now I've edited my post with "1MΩ Reverse-audio taper" and "C", which is clearer and more standard. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Likes:
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2021 4:43:04 GMT -5
The G&L C1M with a 2n2F around it
i was on a site and it suggest just using a 500K, i tried it as C1M wasnt that easy get hold of
sucked about half way in i could hear some effect so 250K-1M and that would explain the need for the C1M
Did think a work around
Dual 1M Pot, Input to 250K Resister and Lug 1 Bottom Pot,
Other end of 250K Resister to Lug 1 Top Pot
Both Lug 2 to output
While adding the 2n2F capacitor around Lug 1 and 2 of the Bottom Pot
Will need to take off the Bottom Pot and CUT the Track inbetween the Resister part and the Silver part
other wise the Pots will be less value than they should be.
I LOVE the look of this, i want to call it a LOOT
Loot Pic'n'Mix system
|
|
