Hi I'm new, 250k/500k dual pot w/ s-1 switch?

[highwaystrat]

Hi I'm putting a dual single shaft 250k/500k stacked volume pot in my strat, I want to use a switch preferably the Fender s-1 switch to switch between the 250k pot and the 500k pot. I'm wondering how I can do this, I think I will have to connect the wire from the pickup selector to a switch as well as the output jack's wire. 

I use noiseless single coils and I like them with 250k pots and 500k so I'd like to have both options, I'm keeping the tone pots 250k. 
I don't want to use a superswitch because I like my pickup selector, I stretch the spring so it feels different. And I don't want to only use a 500k volume because I don't like the taper, I know I can use a resistor to make it into a 250k pot but I'm not trying to do an hss setup, they are all single coils I just want to switch between a 250k volume pot and 500k. I have a pot that should do this, it is basically the same pot used in the shawbucker wiring. 

I'd appreciate advice and wiring diagrams, and need help on what parts of the s-1 switch to use, thanks very much!


Let me know your questions, I will try to be as clear as I can, I have a good idea in mind and with the help of you all hopefully I can make it happen.

[newey]

Highwaystrat-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I'll put aside any issues as to why you want to do this; you want what you want and we're here to serve.

I want to use a switch preferably the Fender s-1 switch

S-1 switches are pricey, and it's overkill for what you want. A simple push/pull on one of your tone controls would suffice. It would be cheaper and easier to wire. If you're not a fan of push/pull pots, there are push/push pots available as well.

This can certainly be done with an S-1 if you insist, but it's a bit like using an elephant gun to kill mosquitos. Even with a DPDT push/pull (or push/push), you'll only be using half the switch- one pole out of 2.

You can put the P/P on either one of the tone controls, your pick. The wiring to the tone pot portion of the P/P pot doesn't change, it'll be exactly like it is now.

You don't even need a diagram, it's that easy. A DPDT P/P pot has 6 switch lugs, arranged like the number six on dice.. You'll be using 3 of the 6, in a row, it doesn't matter whether you use the right 3 or the left 3. The "hot" output from your 5-way switch (which now goes straight to the volume pot clockwise lug) will be wired to the center lug on the side of the switch that you'll be using. The lug above that center lug is then wired to the clockwise lug of one-half of your stacked volume pot; the lower lug is wired to the other half of the pot.

You can decide which pot you want to be the one in operation when the P/P is pulled out vs. pushed in by simply swapping the upper and lower wires.

Now, if there is another reason you want to use an S-1 pot, that's fine, but we'd need to know what else you have planned before we get to a diagram.

[reTrEaD]

Good Morning Newey. You're up early. I haven't had my morning coffee so maybe I'm missing something. But it seems like you'd need both sides of the switch. One to select which CW lug, the other to select which wiper.

[ashcatlt]

I have had a little bit of coffee and I agree with retread. If we were going to only switch one connection, I'd very much prefer the wiper, but that won't accomplish what the OP wants. We really need to switch both.

[newey]

I was assuming both wipers would be wired together and connected to output. I gather the problem you're both seeing is the unused half of the pot being connected at the wiper and at the CCW end to ground? (I was thinking that wouldn't matter with the CW lug disconnected.)

[JohnH]

I also think that two lugs from each pot need to be switched out, leaving just the grounded lugs of each. Otherwise they will mess with the impedance seen by the pickup, which is probably the main reason for having different pot values.

[newey]

Ok, so it's both halves of the switch. Still no need for an S-1 though.

Sent from my SM-G928V using proboards

[ashcatlt]

Actually, I think you can switch any two terminals of each that you want. With the S-1 you could switch all three!


...Or you could just use a 500K V pot and turn the T down a touch when you want the "250K tone". It's exactly the same thing.

[sumgai]

Did I miss something here?

Dec 9, 2015 2:54:32 GMT -5 highwaystrat said:

Hi I'm putting a dual single shaft 250k/500k stacked volume pot in my strat, I want to use a switch preferably the Fender s-1 switch to switch between the 250k pot and the 500k pot.

(emphasis mine)

I understood that the S1 was to go on this "dual-single shaft stacked" volume pot, not on one of the tone controls.  'Sfunny, I don't recall ever seeing one of these..... or are my meds working overtime again?

highwaystrat, the problem for you is this: the S1 portion of the control must operate through the pot's shaft, as a separate component - the two are entirely not mechanically connected.  In comparison, putting a standard p/p switch at the end of a pot's shaft is not hard, and seemingly would require somewhat less depth under the guitar's pickguard. While I do like the looks of an S1, I think that in this particular case, a standard p/p might be of benefit - knob down means the lower control portion is in play, and so on & so forth... you don't get that kind of tactile feedback with an S1.

But of course it's your call.  Provided of course that the part you want is available, that is.  Elsewise, you could put it in as one of the tone controls, but that means an extra operation with your hand, as you sort out what you want selected, and at what volume level.

HTH

sumgai

[highwaystrat]

Thanks for the advice!
I tried this with different switches and I can't get it to work, everythings the same, the switch isn't switching between the pots. I was told it's probably seeing both and may sound like the volumes on 8 or 9, I tried it with a mini toggle switch, still isn't working, I'm thinking it's because I also have a parallel/series on another toggle switch and another mod, I figure I can try this with stock strat wiring and it should work, or I might try a 500k pot and use a resistor and switch it connected/disconnected.

Do I have to ground the switch? Iv'e tried 3 different switches so far, everything else is working.  

[newey]

Highway-

Maybe at this point you should post a diagram showing how the guitar is currently wired. Depending on what else is currently going on, the switch may be affected. Do you have access to a multimeter?

Sent from my SM-G928V using proboards

[highwaystrat]

Yes I have a multimeter, can't post pics, maybe in the future. I measured the stacked pot before and it worked. The bridge pickup is wired normally so I really think at least the bridge pickup should be affected. 

I use a wiring a member on another forum helped me with, along with having the neck and middle pickups disconnected from the tone pots, bridge has a tone pot, middle pickup has a volume pot i think wired as a variable resistor, this mod is one I want to keep. There's a parallel/series mod that works but I think because of the middle pickup volume it turns on all 3 pickups in the bridge/middle position, but works as it should in the rest of the positions.

Another guitar is wired like this but without the p/s wiring.

 

[newey]

I use a wiring a member on another forum helped me with,

As I said, if we are to be of any help to you to troubleshoot the problem, we (or I, at least) require a starting point, meaning a diagram of what you now have.

A photo would also be nice to have, but a diagram is likely to be initially more useful, so that we can at least see that what you intended to have happen would, in fact, work if implemented correctly.

You can do a quick diagram with any paint or graphics software, or just handwrite a diagram and scan it into your computer. Upload it to Photobucket, copy url tags and you're good to go.

[newey]

Based on RT, Ashcatlt and JohnH's suggestion, here is how I envisioned it. Is this how yours is wired?



Now, my diagram does make some assumptions about how other things are wired, it basically assumes a standard Strat wiring. Depending upon how other things were implemented, however, this might have to change. In particular, I want to see what tone pots you've got and how they are wired, especially the one wired as a variable resistor. I also want to see where that series/parallel switch fits into the scheme of things. But the above diagram is basically how it should be.

You can use your multimeter to figure out whether both pots are active at all times (i.e., not being switched) by doing some testing. It is helpful for that testing if you know the resistance of your pickups.

You should be hearing some distinction if the pot elements are in fact being switched. The difference may not be dramatic. As Ashcatlt noted, the 250K will sound like the 500K turned down to 8 or so. BTW, when you measured the pots, how close were they to their nominal values?

[ashcatlt]

Dec 17, 2015 23:43:58 GMT -5 newey said:

That. Should probably say "from whatever is currently connected to the jack tip", but...

You should be hearing some distinction if the pot elements are in fact being switched. The difference may not be dramatic. As Ashcatlt noted, the 250K will sound like the 500K turned down to 8 or so.

That's not what I said, and it's not exactly true. Turning the 500K V down to 250K puts 250K in series, and moves the cutoff of the capacitive filter downward without much changing the inductive. What I said was turn down the T pot, which reduces the parallel resistance without affecting the series, and only moves the inductive filter. Does that distinction make a real difference?

This will at least "fix" your V at 10 tone. As you turn it down, though, we run into that problem we talked about in the other thread. It's not going to have the same taper and "feel", and the capacitive filter won't follow the volume change the way you'd expect with an actual smaller pot.

Does any of this make enough difference to be worth the time any of us have spent on it?

But I think we need an S/P switch for the pots! Needs another pole... Maybe I should just go smoke a cigarette...

[newey]

What I said was turn down the T pot, which reduces the parallel resistance without affecting the series

Accuracy does matter, and I was sloppy there. Sorry!

[ashcatlt]

Dec 18, 2015 6:33:16 GMT -5 newey said:

Accuracy does matter, and I was sloppy there. Sorry!

[highwaystrat]

This is a diagram a friend gave me, I don't know if I have their permission, but here it is. But I only have the upper tone pot connected to the bridge pickup lug on the pickup selector. The middle pickup's hot wire goes to the lower pots outer lug, and the middle lug goes to the middle pickup's lug on the pickup selector. The lower pot for the middle pickup is not grounded. I also don't have ground wires connecting the back of the pots together. Ill post the parallel/series wiring. I've seen it wired differently, I suspect the p/s diagram isn't the best way to do a p/s mod. 

[highwaystrat]

[highwaystrat]

Thanks again for the advice. I do know the readings on the pickups, I think they read normally but read something strange when I switched the dual pot switch.

[newey]

Your friend's diagram, insofar as it addresses the dual pots and switch. is exactly what I posted. So, if that's the way it's actually wired, you should be good.

First thing to check is that you don't have a stray strand of wire inadvertently connecting the two halves of the dual-gang pot (or, for that matter, connecting to anything else whatsoever). If that isn't the case, well, then we need to delve a little deeper. And, I still don't really understand exactly how this is currently wired. How and where the series/parallel gets into the mix may matter (or maybe not . . .).

In any event:

I only have the upper tone pot connected to the bridge pickup lug on the pickup selector.

Define "upper". And, on which side of the switch is it connected?

The middle pickup's hot wire goes to the lower pots outer lug,

Define "outer". And, why isn't the middle pickup's hot wire going to either the 5-way switch or to its own tone pot (apparently wired in a variable resistor fashion)?

and the middle lug goes to the middle pickup's lug on the pickup selector. The lower pot for the middle pickup is not grounded.

I guess I'm not understanding this "lower pot for the middle pickup". I thought this was to be a master volume control, with switchable 250K or 500K pots.

[highwaystrat]

I mean the upper tone pot near the volume pot, and lower tone pot that you usually wire the bridge pickup to.
I think it is the clockwise lug of the pot the middle pickup's hot wire goes to. Then the wiper lug goes to the pickup selector where the middle pickup's hot wire usually goes. 

I have all the wires on the pickup selector wired to only one side, it still works and I can use the other side to do other things, so the lug that has the bridge pickup's hot wire also has a wire that goes to the upper tone pot, it is wired with one capacitor that affects only the bridge pickup, like if you were doing a cap for the neck/middle and a seperate pot and cap for the bridge pickup, except the neck and middle are disconnected from the tone pot. 

I could start with new wiring and try a few things, along with trying to be more clear, it could just be sloppy wiring, but I'm also considering just using a 500k volume pot, then I can use a s-1 and have more options.

The wiring to only one side of the pickup selector reminds me of using the pickup selector to automatically split humbuckers like in a standard stratocaster. I can keep it like that then use the s-1 to connect the two sides and get neck+bridge combos and more, but is this a problem using only one side of the pickup selector? I know some standard strats have the pickups hot wires and the wires that go to the tone pot on one side, then the other side is splitting the humbucker. 

[newey]

I mean the upper tone pot near the volume pot, and lower tone pot that you usually wire the bridge pickup to.

Standard Strat wiring has tone pots for the neck and middle pickups, and none on the bridge. So, you have one tone pot wired to the bridge, what is the other tone pot doing?

the lug that has the bridge pickup's hot wire also has a wire that goes to the upper tone pot, it is wired with one capacitor that affects only the bridge pickup, like if you were doing a cap for the neck/middle and a seperate pot and cap for the bridge pickup, except the neck and middle are disconnected from the tone pot.

This is still not very clear. I'm not trying to be obtuse, I honestly can't figure out the wiring you have from the verbal descriptions. I still don't know what the other tone pot is doing. Is it for the middle alone?

I could start with new wiring and try a few things

It sounds to me like you're going off in several different directions at once without a clear plan as to where you want to end up. If you want to have a volue pot that is switchable between 500K and 250K, that can be done, but now you've got a troubleshooting problem. Rather than troubleshoot the problem, it sounds like you want to tear up the existing plan and do something else entirely. That's fine, if it's what you want. We'll be happy to assist with another plan, if you have an idea of what you want to do.

But, if you still want to try to get the original plan working, I'll reiterate my wish for a diagram of your existing wiring.

[highwaystrat]

src="http://www.strat-talk.com/attachments/middle-blender-jpg.120870/" style="max-width:100%;" alt[/img]


Here is the middle pickup volume diagram. But master tone's green wire goes to the same lug on the pickup selector that the bridge pickup's hot wire goes to. 
This is how I wire the lower pot that says blender, I don't have ground wires though. 

[newey]

Highway-

I was trying to edit your image tags to get it to appear, but I was unable to fix it. Please repost the image.

[highwaystrat]

[cynical1]

The image tag www.strat-talk.com/attachments/middle-blender-jpg.120870/ returns a "You must be logged in to do that." error. If the person clicking that link isn't logged into www.strat-talk.com they're not going to see anything.

HTC1