Alternatives to a Floyd Rose nut

[sonic]

Hi all.

It's been a long time since I last posted: life and work getting in the way!

Anyway, I have a small problem. My other half has bought me a 'Warlock' body, plus a separate brand new 24 fret neck. Trouble is, the neck is prepared for a Floyd Rose locking nut, but the guitar is routed for a wrap around bridge.

Obviously I could just put a FR nut on and not use the locking system. But is there anything I can use instead that would 'fill the gap'? I don't want to use a roller nut, as that would mean taking out some of the fretboard.

Any advice welcomed!

Ian

[cynical1]

Well, you killed my first suggestion in your original post...but since it's a fixed bridge, the roller bridge would be a bit of overkill...

There are companies out there, like Earvana, that make obscenely large nuts that offer some voodoo...but for a price...and you'll still have a bit of an ugly gap behind it.

Since most people want to replace a standard nut with a locking or roller nut, there aren't a whole lot of options out there off the shelf going the other way...as you have probably already noticed. This begs the question: "How handy do you feel?" Does the idea of sanding, drilling and refinishing make you smile or cringe? If it's the latter, just sell the neck and buy one with a standard nut shelf. If it's the former then read on.

The easiest way, IMHO, is to mount a standard nut in place, then fill the gap behind it with whatever blows your skirt up. You'll first need to determine the size nut you'll need. I prefer TUSQ nuts and blanks, but the call is yours. Measure the width at the neck shelf and your approximate string height from the nut shelf. There is no "exact" direct replacement on nuts. They ALL need to be worked to the finished size, but you'll be able to get pretty close.

Once you have your nut then you can work on the fill piece. Most woodworking stores sell exotic hardwoods cut to size. Some even sell pieces already cut and planed to specific sizes and I'd be dollars to donuts you can score something close off the shelf. You can even find a cabinet maker to cut your piece from their scrap stock to a precise size...for a price, but you'll know it's square...and you're gonna need square on the bottom and one long side minimum.  All you need to do with this filler piece is to make sure it makes no contact with the strings after the string breaks over the nut and heads for the tuners. The advantage to this method is that you can replace the nut with a standard size down the road should you decide to make a radical change in string gauges.

I've seen people do this with a huge nut blank and work it down, but honestly, I've always felt that looked a bit odd...and you'll always need to make a custom nut down the road...

Filling the screw holes in the neck is pretty straightforward, too. Just find a standard hardwood dowel diameter, drill you holes out accordingly and just glue them in place. Remember to keep the glue out of the nut shelf.

The rest is just sanding and finishing. Remember to use wipe the surfaces to be glued with acetone on oily wood (like rosewood) prior to gluing.

This is just a basic overview. If you really feel like throwing caution to the winds I can be more specific.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[sonic]

Hi Cynical

I think you're right - I'm just going to have to bite the bullet.

I reckon I'll have to make a nut and work out the size of the gap left, then get hold of some rosewood and make a filler.

It might look a bit odd with a large piece of rosewood at the nut, but there's no other choice. I'd rather have a piece of rosewood than hack into the fretboard and then regret it!

Cheers

Ian

[cynical1]

Actually, with a very simple to build fixture you can make the route for a roller nut quite easily. It would be overkill to put it there without a trem-leo...

Don't feel you have to stick to the same wood as the fingerboard. A nice piece of snakewood would be killer. In the size you'd need it would probably cost very little for the visual effect. You could even look for what is commonly called "pen blanks". Small pieces of wood you turn on a lathe to make pens...and they come in exotic woods normally not found in most hardwood supply houses.

For example:


On the cheap, I have seen people use pickguard material to cover the bare wood behind the nut. You can be as inventive as you want, as long as you like it.

The more important part of this refit is filling the holes in the neck for the locking nut mounting screws...



...especially if your neck has a scarf joint as shown above. Those holes are a weak point in a critical area of the neck. Just filling them with wood filler isn't going to cut it if said guitar ever does a header...

Since the guitar is still in the build mode you have the advantage of taking your time on this project.  As far as the refinishing goes, it may be a blessing in disguise.  Once you have the dowels glued and flushed, take some satin or matte polyurethane, mix it 50\50 with mineral spirits and wipe it on the back of the neck just past the repair.  Mask as needed on the headstock and fingerboard.  Once you have 4-5 wiped coats, take some steel wool or fine 3M abrasive pads and smooth it out.  I've been doing this for years and a matte poly thinned and wiped, then steel wooled will make one of the slickest fastest necks you've ever played.

We're all pulling for you.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[Deleted]

bookmarking this one, great info once again Cyn1.

[numpty]

Pardon my chipping in on this months old thread but I spotted a zero-fret mod a while back that looked like it could solve your problem. I cannot remember off-hand what it was called and suck at posting links, but I have a notion it was called "zero-mod" or something very similar. I do remember that it needed work to fit on a fender style neck so didn't follow up. If your neck has a Gibson-style nut then it may be worth a look. How did you get along with this project?.

[numpty]

I have just been googling and found a site with this mod called zero glide. I won't embarrass myself by attempting to post a link but I'm sure you can find this quite easily should you choose. I hope this is useful info for someone looking for a similar solution. Forgive me, I am new at this.

[cynical1]

Sept 3, 2016 21:01:33 GMT -5 numpty said:

Pardon my chipping in on this months old thread...

Never an issue... Even though on most of these older threads the original poster may no longer be active, these posts are still referenced by new visitors. Information is.

I spotted a zero-fret mod a while back that looked like it could solve your problem.

You don't see a zero fret offered much anymore. They really are the only way to achieve an even tone between open and fretted strings. Anyone who ever put a brass nut on a guitar or bass in the 70's will wince a bit here...

In order to pull off a zero fret, as I recall, you need to have near perfect alignment on your tuners at the zero fret. You can cheat with roller trees, but that just over complicates what should be a simple job. You also have to have a good break over at the zero fret since your surface area at that point is significantly narrower than a standard nut.

Either way, you're still going to have to fill the nut shelf with wood and match the radius of the filler piece with the neck. Then cut your slot for the zero fret.  I have seen people shave a nut down, exaggerate the slots and place it behind the zero fret to act as an alignment aid or retainer for the strings to maintain proper spacing across the zero fret.  That always seems like a lot of work to me in order to pull off a cheat to make your instrument accommodate something it was never designed for.

As I recall, you need to use a larger profile on the zero fret than what's on the neck, and you don't crown it like the rest.

As I recall, this was more popular with rhythm players.

Happy Trails -

Cynical One

[cynical1]

OK, so sometimes there's a pearl in all the spam mail I get from Stew-Mac.  Seems they have this very clever little zero-fret\nut gadget.

ZerO Glide Nuts




Here's the obligatory company YouTube video:



Just thought I'd toss this out there. It would still take a bit of wood butchery to make this work in the Locking-to-Standard nut conversion from the original post, but once you get the slot for the nut made the rest is pretty easy.

For my own nefarious purposes, I'm thinking this has potential for a 4 to 5 string piccolo bass conversion project out of an Ibanez Mikro bass. The nut size on the Mikro requires shaving most of a standard nut before you begin to cut it for the strings. I could fit this with a lot less effort. For $30.00, even if it's crap, it's intriguing enough to investigate.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

[strat80hm]

I like that zero fret solution - light, low action, elegant and easy!

As for replacing a Floyd-nut, i had tried this at the time

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/6904/modify-neck

[newey]

8Ohm-

Your link is to a search result, not to the post you referenced. I wasn't sure what you meant to do there, so I left it for you to fix.

[strat80hm]

Thanks newey, just fixed it!

[sonic]

Thanks for the responses people.

I'm still active, it's just that life is still getting in the way. I haven't sorted out the guitar yet: still in the 'to do' pile!

I hadn't heard of the 'Zero Fret'. $30? Is that a little expensive, or am I just a tight-fisted old sod??

[sumgai]

Sept 24, 2016 15:27:43 GMT -5 sonic said:

I hadn't heard of the 'Zero Fret'. $30? Is that a little expensive, or am I just a tight-fisted old sod??

Technically, yes it's very expensive - but you're looking at Stew-Mac, an outfit which is known to be willfully ignorant of the needs of one's wallet.

Still, when you factor in the work it would require to fill the nut slot so that you could install a 'real' zero fret, and then have to lay in some kind of nut to keep the strings from wobbling all across that new zero fret, this becomes a no-brainer... take it and smile.

As to being tight-fisted, old, or a sod, I'll pass judgment over to cynical1, that's more in his domain than mine.

HTH

sumgai