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Post by reTrEaD on May 31, 2016 13:44:23 GMT -5
Further on this, I'm handing out the following as a class exercise: Achieve the original diagram as closely as possible using a 4-pole 5-way superswitch and a 4-pole 2-way switch. *raises hand* Thank you, Perfesser. Is this close enough?
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Post by JohnH on May 31, 2016 15:23:24 GMT -5
reTrEaD gets a Distinction, and a High Distinction if a bit of labelling were added. it would appear to potentially do the requested combos in the requested order.
sumgai thanks for explaining my scribbles.
Taking such a design onwards definitely needs the wiring diagram as a next step - there are many connections where which-way-round and which-lug-is-which are key parameters for getting it right.
t24, if you want to take that further, we would need to know your pickup types and you will need to be able to relate coil wire colours to which actual coil they come from. Would you be happy to use a Fender S1 switch?
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Post by reTrEaD on May 31, 2016 16:14:29 GMT -5
The labeling is implicit rather than explicit.
- The HBs are both wired such that the outer coil is 'stacked' atop the inner coil.
- Whether the outer coils are north or south depends on the polarity of the middle pickup and where you prefer to get hum-canceling.
- All sections of the 4PDT switch are oriented so the "HB" (left side of the original map) connections are on left.
- The drawing is basically symmetrical. So the HB on the left could be the Bridge or Neck. Doesn't really matter. The 4P5T switches are all shown in the same orientation and they're either in the #2 or #4 position, depending on whether the left HB is the bridge or neck.
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Post by JohnH on May 31, 2016 17:13:42 GMT -5
The labeling is implicit rather than explicit. Thank you! That is definately a sentence that I can use to get me out of some sticky real-life situations.
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Post by newey on May 31, 2016 17:31:20 GMT -5
Nice job, RT! And, with that, you've also hit 1100 posts, meaning you've hung in with this bunch far longer, I'm sure, than you initially expected to do. We have also pointed out that being able to choose which coil of a HB is split won't likely result in much tonal variation- but that assumes identical coils, and we now see "Humbuckers" with decidedly different coils, like the SD "P-rails". So, there may be good reasons to want to be able to split to different coils in some circumstances.
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t24
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Post by t24 on Jun 1, 2016 1:41:48 GMT -5
t24, if you want to take that further, we would need to know your pickup types and you will need to be able to relate coil wire colours to which actual coil they come from. Would you be happy to use a Fender S1 switch? Hi John, And I'm planning on putting a Dimarzio Crunch Lab in the bridge, a Dimarzio Liquifire in the neck and a Dimarzio Red Velvet in the middle. Besides Fender S-1, is there anything else that I can use? As far as coil wire colours, this is correct, am I right?
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Post by JohnH on Jun 1, 2016 2:32:11 GMT -5
That is the right diagram for DiMarzio wire colours. If or when you get those pickups, you should check for yourself which of the two sides of the pickup corresponds to each pair of wires. Ie is the slug pole or the screw coil side the north pair? Just touch the two wires from each pair across a plugged-in guitar cord and tap the poles lightly with a screwdriver to make a thump. This is to be able to make sure that it will be wired to cut to the coil positions that you want.
The second switch needs to be 4 poles. The only alternative that I know to a Fender S1 would be a 4-pole mini-toggle, which could be fine but the S1 is neater.
I suggest that Retreads diagram is the best basis for development.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jun 1, 2016 9:26:09 GMT -5
Thank you! That is definately a sentence that I can use to get me out of some sticky real-life situations. You're welcome, John. It has served me well over the years. I'm glad to share it with you. I'm certain you'll use it judiciously.
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t24
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Post by t24 on Jun 1, 2016 11:21:54 GMT -5
John,
To be honest, I don't really understand Retread's diagram. I'm still new at this. So far I've been able to follow Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio's wiring diagram. But I don't really understand component symbols.
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Post by JohnH on Jun 1, 2016 15:28:47 GMT -5
John, To be honest, I don't really understand Retread's diagram. I'm still new at this. So far I've been able to follow Seymour Duncan and Dimarzio's wiring diagram. But I don't really understand component symbols. That's OK. Those diagrams are more for thinking rather than building. I like them, but would need a wiring diagram to build it. There is considerable care needed to draw that out showing actual switch lugs, particularly with these quite complex switches. Will Retread take it to the next step? (I could, but it would be a couple of weeks away)
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Post by reTrEaD on Jun 1, 2016 22:15:19 GMT -5
Next step? Not on this one, John. Spring/Summer isn't a good time of year for me to commit to a project.
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Post by newey on Jun 2, 2016 4:10:04 GMT -5
t24-
Like John, it would probably be a week or so before I can get to it. But if you can hang in there, one of us will get this done for you.
Your other, quicker, option would be to try your own hand at translating RT's schematic to a wiring diagram,and we can then correct your attempt. I think you'll also have a better appreciation of what's going on with the wiring.
Start with the pickup coils. Rt represents these as 5 ovals, with the 2 HBs on the outsides, and the middle single in the middle. There are 4 poles for the Superswitch, shown as an arrow from the common lug of each pole to one of the 5 connection lugs. You also have 4 poles for the toggle switch. Note that, on a schematic such as this, the physical layout of the components is not shown; the switches are shown as being split into separate pieces.
You will need to use your appropriate wiring colors, and for clarity's sake, numbering the various switch poles wouldn't be a bad idea, despite the elegance of RT's "intrinsic" labeling. For example, you can label the Superswitch poles as "SS-1", "SS-2", etc.; this will make it easier to translate it to you wiring diagram.
You will also need to know how both switches work, and how the lugs are laid out on the actual switch, to be able to translate to the "real world" of a wiring diagram. Our Reference section has this information if needed. You'll need to decide if you're using an S-1 or a different 4P2T switch.
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t24
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Post by t24 on Jun 2, 2016 7:59:19 GMT -5
I would love to try and take a shot at it, problem is that I am also not really free till the beginning of July.
If it takes you guys a long time to plan it out, I'm sure it'll take me much longer. But i'll definitely give it a try if free time arises and none of you guys have helped me drawn it.
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