Is this HSH strat mod possible!?!?

[tonebender]

Hi, I'm new here, I'm very new to wiring, but I'm trying to find a neat solution to wiring up a HSH strat so that it can give me all the possibilities I'm looking for. Here's what I'd like:

I need the standard options:
1. Bridge H
2. Bridge H + Middle
3. Middle
4. Middle + Neck H
5. Neck H
6. Bridge H + Neck H
7. Bridge H + Middle + Neck H

Then I need the single coil options:
1. Bridge inner coil
2. Bridge inner coil + Middle
3. Middle
4. Middle + Neck outer coil
5. Neck outer coil
6. Bridge inner coil + Neck outer coil
7. Bridge inner coil + Middle + Neck outer coil

Then I would also like these humbucker Out of Phase options:
1. Bridge H + Middle
2. Middle + Neck H
3. Bridge H + Neck H
4. Bridge H + Middle + Neck H (Bridge H OOP)
5. Bridge H + Middle + Neck H (Middle OOP)
6. Bridge H + Middle + Neck H (Neck H OOP)

And these single coil Out of Phase options:
1. Bridge inner coil + Middle
2. Middle + Neck outer coil
3. Bridge inner coil + Neck outer coil
4. Bridge inner coil + Middle + Neck outer coil (Bridge OOP)
5. Bridge inner coil + Middle + Neck outer coil (Middle OOP), Bridge inner coil
6. Middle + Neck outer coil (Neck OOP)

Now, if we are using a 7 way mod, it would also be perfect if in position 7 of the Humbucker Out of Phase section I could have the Bridge inner coil + Neck inner coil (IN PHASE) and in position 7 of the Single Coil Out of Phase section I could have the Bridge outer coil + Neck outer coil (IN PHASE) - just because I'd happen to have those two slots available

What I'm thinking is to do this mod without making ANY cosmetic changes to the surface of the guitar other than the Humbucker pickups. The Volume would be a master volume that functions as a push pull pot to engage the 7 way switch mod (positions 6 & 7), Tone 1 would control the Bridge tone and would also be a push/pull to engage the Out of Phase selections and finally Tone 2 would be the tone for the Middle and Neck positions and would also be a push/pull to engage single coil mode.

WHEW!!! Any help would be much appreciated, I have no idea if this is even possible!

Thank you!!

[sumgai]

bent one,

Welcome to The NutzHouse! ;D

Nobody likes to be a pooty parper, but I drew the short straw, so I get to tell you the bad news: Unless you've got a source for that 7-way switch, then your dreams are a long ways off from realization.  It's the "retain the stock appearance" requirement that's gonna kill this idea. You need several switches to get everything desired, and a couple of p/p pots are not gonna get the job done, trust me on that one.

Consider selecting 5 combinations that you think are the most necessary, and listing them in your next post.   From there, we can add options such as phase inversion and coil cuts, etc. Additional switches may also allow us to implement the remaining combos that you had to forego, but that will depend on how much you value your real estate.

Punt. The ball's in your court.

sumgai

[JohnH]

Welcome Tonebender

You can have nearly all those sounds, and quite simply, but the sequence in which they are presented and the action of the switches need to be rationalised to suit real parts. So, on a Strat, you have a 5 -position switch, and you can add three push-pull pots.

The 5-way could be a standard one, and always does the usual thing ie
B, B+M, M, M+N, N

One push pull forces N to be on in any combo where it wasn't. So you get:
B+N, B+M+N, M+N, M+N, N

Push pull No.2 cuts both your humbuckers to single coils. With it, the combos are the same as above but based on single-coil sounds.

Push-pull No.3 reverses the phase of one pickup. Id suggest the neck, with care it will also swap from inner to outer neck coil in single-coil mode.

That does almost everything except B and M out of phase, which is usually a sound best left unheard.

If it matters to you about hum, it is worth trying to consider which combos will be hum cancelling in single coil mode. You cant solve it all, but for in phase combos, humcancelling needs two different magnetic polarities being a north and a south. For an out of phase combo, you need two coils of the same polarity. In phase, you might try to ensure that both humbuckers cut to a coil that is magnetically different to M. Then the basic in-phase single-coil Strat sounds will be hum -free so far as possible.

Id also suggest that out of phase sounds may not be very useful anywy, unless you know that you really like them. I first got a guitar with oop settings about 40 years ago, my first, which happened very unusually to have this. So I got very interested in how it all worked and now 4 out of my 5 electrics have this in some form. But the number of times Ive ever played an entire song in an oop setting is zero!

If I had an HSH, i think id rather have independent knobs to coil cut the humbuckers seperately, even though both can be done on one switch. But then Ive got those 4 other guitars.

Note that any Strat with three push pull pots is likely to be a bit of a rats nest inside!

But good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[reTrEaD]

Great post as usual, John. I'd like to add my $.02 to what you've posted.

If I had an HSH, i think id rather have independent knobs to coil cut the humbuckers seperately, even though both can be done on one switch.

Or you could do both HBs with a dual-ganged pot. You wouldn't be able to get a neck single plus a bridge HB that way, but it could be rather useful. You might even do a partial bypass by using a cap in series with each section of the pot. Retaining most of the hum-cancelling but getting pretty much a single-coil sound from the HBs as one coil is fully dialed out. What happens in between full HB and the pseudo SC setting might also be of some use.

If Bendy were to do this and keep the stock three-knob configuration, that would mean just a single tone knob. Not a bad trade-off in my humble opinion. I rather dislike the two tone knob business anyway. And freeing up the other side of the stock 5-way switch might also have a small benefit. I'll suggest how, next.

One push pull forces N to be on in any combo where it wasn't. So you get:
B+N, B+M+N, M+N, M+N, N

A simple neck-on switch gets you two additional combinations that weren't previously available.
B+N and B+M+N
But it also causes a duplication of the M+N in two of the selected position when the neck-on is engaged. Not a big problem but it can easily be averted by using the Bridge lug of the second side of the stock selector switch in conjunction with the neck-on switch. If the second side of the selector is no longer necessary for the tone knob selection, I'd use that. The result would be as follows:

Normal
B
B+M
M
M+N
N

Neck-on
B+N
B+M+N
M
M+N
N

Slightly better, imho.

[tonebender]

Wow! Thank you so much to everyone who has offered advice so far. I have given it some thought and I think I'd like to go with something a little simpler. I'm hoping there can be a cool way to do this. I found this wiring diagram online (below) of a PRS style guitar. This has enough options to be perfect for me, and I would like to go with the single tone pot from now on.

I have 2 changes/additions I'd like to make:

Firstly I'd like to change the main Push/Pull switch that changes Humbuckers to Singles from the Volume Pot to the Tone Pot

Secondly, I'd like to then add a second push/pull switch to the Tone Pot which would allow me to get some out of phase options.

Ideally I wouldn't like any dead spots on the 5 way switch or any repeats (like the same sound in say positions 3 & 4)

If this could be done I would be sooooo happy!! Really interested to hear what you think!

[JohnH]

That diagram looks like it is by a chap called Phostenix, in which case it is likely to be very good. Youll find many more by him with a google to his site.

The switches are special, being a superswitch for the 5 way and a Fender S1 for the pot. Fender uses them in various ways on Deluxe models. Its not a push pull switch but works with a small button in the centre of the knob. So they are more $ than others.

For that design you should get both 500k pots.

In principle, you could add a phase switch on the tone pot. But note that you already have a bunch of thinner sounds through the coil cuts.

[newey]

Firstly I'd like to change the main Push/Pull switch that changes Humbuckers to Singles from the Volume Pot to the Tone Pot

Secondly, I'd like to then add a second push/pull switch to the Tone Pot which would allow me to get some out of phase options.

As JohnH noted, this uses an S-1 switch. As shown on the diagram, it's on the volume pot. But the switch on an S-1, just as with a push/pull pot, functions independently of the pot to which it is attached (unless, for a certain scheme, one wires the switch to the pot in some fashion). This means that you can easily make the S-1 into the tone pot, by simply wiring the pot portion as shown for the tone pot. Likewise, if you add a push/pull pot for phase, it can be either the vol or tone, doesn't matter.

The phase switch is effectively a separate module- there is a diagram for it in the "wiring modules" section. It will be wired "first in line" after whichever pickup you decide to reverse phase with, that is, right after the pickup, before the wiring goes to the switches.

Your best bet, should you decide to modify the diagram, is to redraw it with any changes, so that we can double-check your work.

[tonebender]

Thanks for all the help guys!

Does anyone know if that 500k resistor shown on the S1 switch needs to be wired in, or if it just denotes that it's the 500k version?

[tonebender]

Also, if I do need a 500k resistor, where can I find the right one? I looked on ebay, so many variables I'm a bit confused. Only seem to be 470k resistors, but some are listed as 1watt, others 5w even, all these values all over the place! Also, metal film I assume is the best one to get?

This is all a bit confusing for me hahaha!!

[sumgai]

Jul 20, 2016 23:32:06 GMT -5 tonebender said:

Does anyone know if that 500k resistor shown on the S1 switch needs to be wired in, or if it just denotes that it's the 500k version?

Yup, some of us can probably dope it out.

In essence, it's for balance of volume when switching between various combos. It's actually active in only one position, which is Pos 3 and S-1 down (B + N, full Hb mode).  In this configuration, both full humbuckers together can be rather loud in comparison to other combos.  For that reason, a 500KOhm resistor is placed in parallel with the two pups, which will knock the output down just a tad.  It will also taper off a bit of high end, and that might not be a good thing, depending on what kind of pups you install, and how your ears perceive the final results.

Me, I'd leave it out first, and test for awhile.  If it sounds too loud, or too harsh/ice-pickish, then put the resistor in as shown.

HTH

sumgai

[reTrEaD]

It looks to me like the 500k resistor is only connected in position 3 with the S-1 up (middle pickup only). I would guess the intent is to increase the loading to mitigate the overly bright sound a single-coil pickup would have with 500k pots. Of course I could be wrong.

I think using a resistor in parallel when S-1 is up is prudent. Not only in position 3 but in all positions when S-1 is up. I might even choose a lower value such as 330k or 270k.

There is only a tiny bit of power dissipated by the resistor and the value isn't highly critical. So look for an inexpensive resistor with a small physical size.

[tonebender]

You guys have been amazing help! Thank you so much!! Will let you know if I have any issues when actually wiring up! :/