Modify Lace Sensor Gold, to make it work in a HSS strat

[leon1]

EDIT: moved to Guitar Wiring by sumgai, 10/31/16

Hello,

I build the  Strat SP hss - 85 sounds, no extra knobs (posted by JohnH), with 2 Fender Lace Sensor singles and 1 little '59 SD. The Lace Golds have only 2 wires (not the standard 3 wires). See pictures.

The build produces a loud hum.

According to John, I need to seperate the baseplates of the Lace Golds from both coil wires and ground them seperately, so that they are suited for the HSS configuration.


My question:

a) How can I seperate the baseplates from both coil wires and ground them seperately / in what way must I modify the Lace sensor Golds?

Thanks for helping,

Léon

[JohnH]

I suggested Leon post here to seek suggestions and advice. These are Lace Sensors, as taken out of a Fender as original stock. Sensors normally have a seperate ground wire for their base plates.

In a standard build, white and green are grounded and orange is hot.

Leon has had issues with two more complex but well-tested HSS diagrams using these pickups as the singles (my SP and 4reals version of MR). For such schemes with series and phase wiring, it is essential that any case grounds are seperate from coil wires, or else it can can cause the type of hum and dead settings that he has found.

I suspect that these 'Fender' Laces are essentially the same as the base model, but have been simplified for production to have a combined coil and case ground. This would not affect performance with normal wiring.

Leon, I suggest you test with a meter to see if one wire is indeed connected to the case.

Is anyone familiar with Lace construction or have suggestions on how to alter them? I havent seen them myself so wanted other opinions.

[leon1]

I sent an email to the Lace company.
This is there answer:

Unfortunately, you cannot take a separate ground from the Lace pickups you have. Your pickups were probably built in the mid to late 80’s to early 90’s and were designed to go into Fender Strats and Teles Plus guitars. The wiring options then were basic and the white wire acted as both the finish and ground. We actually added the green ground wire (early 90’s) when we came up with the Duallys for Fender….a ground wire became necessary for series/parallel switching and Fender was also toying with more complex wiring schemes for the Strat Plus and Tele Plus line of guitars.



With that said any Lace Sensor Single coil pickups built after the early 90’s with the green ground wire would work in your guitar, however there is no way that I know of to ground the pickups you have. Grounding the base plate will not do what you were hoping it would. 


I replied to the Lace Company and asked if a basic simple HSS wiring is possible at all. So, one without series / parllel switching. I'm waiting on the answer.

John:
Do you have a HSS wiring diagram without series / parallel switching? I can then discuss this with the Lace Company as well. Just making sure I tried it all. My main goal is to make the HSS, so I can make use of the little '59 Humbucker.

[JohnH]

I still think that there would have to be a way to mod those pickups, depending on how much surgery you want to try. But it would mean getting inside to get to the coil connections and I cant advise about how to do that and the risks it may involve tbough I would try it if it was my own.

I dont have a suitable scheme of my own. But how about starting with just a simple HSS like this?

docs.google.com/gview?embedded=true&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.seymourduncan.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F05%2F2S_1SCH_5W_1V_2T.pdf

That should work with no problem.

If you want to get a bit more out of it, you could build it with 2 push/pull pots. Initially, just ignore the switches. Then later if you want to, you could add a neck-on switch (to get N+B or all 3) and a coil cut switch on the humbucker. These could be added without changing any of the base wiring.

[leon1]

You mean that it would work without modding the Lace Pickups?
I'm not gonna open them. The risk is to high for me.

[JohnH]

Nov 1, 2016 15:51:56 GMT -5 leon1 said:

You mean that it would work without modding the Lace Pickups?
I'm not gonna open them. The risk is to high for me.

Yes. They should work with tbe simple design.

Check that the bridge is in phase with the singles though since they are different makes. Swap black and green wires if not.

If uncertain you can test by listening in with B and M position, or do screwdriver pulloff test, see our reference section.

[leon1]

I build the SD schematic with a standard 5 way switch.
It works. NO HUM. I'm glad I could remain the Laces 

While I'm at it I want use my push/pulls anyway. How must I build in the neck-on switch?
a) Is the picture the ok way to do it? Which push /pull pot should i use? I assume the volume pot. 

b) How must I build the coil cut switch? Bye the way is this what they refure to as the David Gilmour mod?
I found a picture. Is the useable? How must I apply it to the push/pull? Just use 2 lugs? 

c




I just want to thank you allready, for your great support.

[JohnH]

I'm glad you have it working!

Those neck-on diagrams are fine. If its using a push-pull switch, then I assume you would like the 'out' position to be the neck-on and 'in' to be normal. In that case, based on the first diagram the lower side of the switch as shown in that picture would be against the face of the pot. (But make sure at the 5 way, it does go to the neck connection, the first diagram actually looks like the neck lug is at the wrong end)

Coil cut is the same switch wiring as the neck on, but the two wires out of it, one goes to any ground point on the pots and the other to the joined red/white wires of the humbucker.

You can chose which switch goes on which pot.

That should make it a good simple but versatile guitar

[leon1]

Thanks John,

I will try this in the next couples of days.

Léon

[leon1]

Hi John,

I allready made the Neck-on and coil cut.
Works like a charm. I especially like the neck-on in combination with the humbucker. Great mod!

In your opinion can I swap the 500 K pots for 250 K's (in combinatie with the diagram I used)?
I ask this because u did use 3 times 500 K in your Strat SP HSS 85 sounds diagram.

I think for the 2 single coils it makes sence. But, do you think I makes sence for the humbucker as well?
The technical support advisor at Lace, did sent me a diagram in which Lace recommended 3 times 250K.

Click image to make it readable

[JohnH]

I would keep it with 500k pots, but I like brighter guitars.

But with the 500k pots, you can exactly match the tone of 250k's just by turning tone down. Set your tone to about 6 to 7 to hear the difference. If you prefer the sound of the Laces like that, and don't want the option of going brighter, you can solder resistors across each one from each of their hot wires to ground (270k). I wouldn't myself though.

[leon1]

Yes, what you say makes sence.
Maybe I try both options.

On this site www.strat-talk.com/threads/250k-or-500k-pot-for-s-s-h.141555/  I found a guy who used 1 meg resistors to balance the pots at 333K. 

Just to conclude the topic,
I installed the 22 nf cap across tonepot 1.

Is it wise to install another 47 nf cap across from tonepot 1 to the volumepot, as you did on your rev b 23/8/15 SP HSS diagram?

[JohnH]

Just a simple tone control is best for his scheme. The extra 47nF in the SP scheme was to do something extra in series mode only, and would not apply here.

[leon1]

John,

Ok. That rounds up my project.
I want to thank again for all your support.

Cheers, Leon

[JohnH]

Hi Leon, you are welcome.

So what do you think of the lil sd59 with the Lace Golds?

J

[leon1]

I was allready very satisfied with the Laces. I own a strat plus with a Wilkinson nuts that had all the strings fed through a upper "roller" pin (model '78 - '88). It might be a mindgame but my guitar really sings.

The combo with the '59 is well balanced. I play on a Bogner Alchemist with a seperate cabinet (Celestion G12M Greenback speaker and a Celestion G12H Anniversary speaker).

To me it's a golden match.

I also build effects (OCD / Catalinbread RAH / Lovepedals  and so on). At the moment I'm also building a looper, see picture.