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Post by sumgai on May 15, 2017 21:35:40 GMT -5
Forgive me for the run on sentence, it almost pained me to type it. 'SOK, I do the same thing all the time with my mouth. Only, it pains other people, not me. Funny how that works, eh? 
Working on the revision, almost as we type. Please stand by.....
sumgai
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Post by reTrEaD on May 16, 2017 3:03:49 GMT -5
1- Bridge, both coils in series 2- Bridge, Slug coil in series with screw coil (the screw coil is shunted through a resistor, the slug coil is not, referred to as partially split) 3- Neck split with screw coil active in series with bridge split with slugs active (no resistor in circuit) 4- Neck partially split in parallel and out of phase with bridge partially split (the neck goes through a capacitor) 5- Neck, both coils in series 1 and 5 are no-brainers. The other three require a bit of thought. Perhaps more thought than you've given them. [3]This is a particularly bad choice, given the fact that the magnet in the bridge pickup has been flipped. The flip makes the neck screw coil and the bridge slug coil the same magnetic polarity. If that pair of coils are used together they will not be hum-cancelling when in-phase. They will be hum-canceling if connected out-of-phase. (not what you wanted) I suggest rethinking this and using a coil from the neck that is the opposite magnetic polarity to whichever coil you use from the bridge. Since the magnet in the bridge is flipped, the means two screw coils or two slug coils. [2]This should not be a problem. It won't matter how the two coils of the bridge are 'stacked' electrically. If the screw coil connects to ground, the resistor will be in parallel from the series link to ground. If the screw coil connects to hot, the resistor will be in parallel from the series link to hot. [4]This is not completely defined. You've declared that both neck and bridge are partially split by resistors. But you don't specify which coil on each has the resistor in parallel with it. For best hum-canceling, both pickups should have the screw coil paralleled with a resistor or both should have the slug coil paralleled with a resistor. The capacitor for the out-of-phase neck pickup could be from pickup to ground or from hot to pickup in the series string. Whichever is more convenient. MY ESTIMATION:You will fall at least one pole to accomplish the tasks you outlined in the post I quoted. (maybe more) This is because each resistor will need a separate pole from the superswitch to bring it into the circuit. However, the 5 configurations in John's sketch can be achieved with a 4P5T superswitch, if the same coil from the neck is used in combinations [3] and [4]. (series in-phase in position 3, parallel out-of-phase through series capacitor in position 4) At least that's my take on it, at the present time. YMMV. |
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 4:26:37 GMT -5
I take it would be a lot easier for me if I just flipped the magnet, so I'm going to do that now.
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Post by reTrEaD on May 16, 2017 8:47:52 GMT -5
Having standard magnet orientation on both pickups doesn't make anything easier. It just allows you to use the screw coil from the neck and slug coil from the bridge together (in-phase) and get hum-canceling.
You will still run short of poles on the superswitch to achieve the combination specified in [4]. At least in my estimation you will.
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 10:40:27 GMT -5
Bill Lawrence did it, I actually haven't seen anyone try to do it not on a superswitch. That is unless of course the other positions interfere with it. And I thought standard magnet orientation made it so the if you grounded the white red connection (seymour duncan colors) you would get the screw coil on both neck and bridge models.
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Post by reTrEaD on May 16, 2017 11:02:48 GMT -5
I don't believe Bill did anything remotely resembling what you described in [4] with two partially split HBs, one of them half out of phase with the other. His work with a standard strat (two pole) switch was rather clever. But that takes advantage of some of the nuances (multiple connections) that occur in the #2 and #4 positions in that particular switch. |
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 11:09:05 GMT -5
Oh right, I forgot that he did it with a telecaster which has single coils. Would this be possible without the resistor on position 4?
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 11:14:40 GMT -5
I also have a 6P5T rotary switch, would that work for this wiring?
Edit: Just realized I was getting a bit ahead of myself, I'm not sure it will fit in a 1 3/4 inch strat
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Post by reTrEaD on May 16, 2017 11:23:11 GMT -5
If you use just the screw coil of the neck pickup in position [4] I believe you can combine this half out of phase with the full bridge hb, partially bypassed bridge HB, or just one coil (screw coil) of the bridge HB, and accomplish all with the 4P5T superswitch.
If you use the 6P5T rotary, you'll have enough poles to do all tasks including the complicated two partially split HBs, half out-of-phase in position [4].
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 11:40:25 GMT -5
So basically what you are saying is that the original wiring I proposed would work, but I just have to ditch the resistors? If I can't have them on for I won't use then on position 2 also, just to keep output similar.
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Post by reTrEaD on May 16, 2017 12:08:53 GMT -5
I'm saying that you only have enough poles to use a resistor on the bridge pickup. Not both pickups.
If you use the same coil (for instance the screw coil) from the Neck pickup in positions [3] and [4], you can do whatever you like with partial or full splits of the Bridge pickup.
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Post by sumgai on May 16, 2017 12:20:32 GMT -5
I also have a 6P5T rotary switch, would that work for this wiring? Edit: Just realized I was getting a bit ahead of myself, I'm not sure it will fit in a 1 3/4 inch strat Well, that certainly ups the ante!
I was about to chime in that with your new requirements, it can't be done with only 4 poles. In essence, we now have to also control the bridge's negative lead such that it goes directly to ground more than once, and I don't see that happening under my scenario. (Remember, I can't permanently ground the Neck negative lead, that would obviate any phase reversal.) Having 6 poles to play with will make this chore much easier.
Your call - standard 5-way switch (more stealthy) or rotary switch (desired tones)....
Here I have to come to you with my hat in hand. I want to impart to you a strong emphasis on not trying to combine too many ingredients into one recipe. I want you to consider taking the overall problem and breaking it down into smaller parts and pieces that become easy to study, and then incorporate into your final overall rig. Here I'm talking about your concern over screws versus slugs and magnet orientation. And I'm bringing it up because nearly every one of your posts mentions them as if they were the most important consideration.
Trust me, please - this is not the time to worry about such things. The "smaller" piece we need to examine first is the logic of your desired circuit. In looking for a solution on how to obtain the five combinations, magnets and screw/slugs don't count - the circuit just doesn't care about such things because they have no effect on how the logic will work.
What you mean when you mention magnets and so on is your Tone. That's accomplished outside of the electrical switching circuitry. Want proof? EASY! How many different pickups are on the market?  They're all on the market because they produce different tonalities, even when used in the exact same electrical circuit. That says to me that what sounds good to one player in one circuit may or may not sound good to another player, or in another circuit. And there are only two components in a pickup - coil windings and magnets, the rest is support structure.
Which brings us to your particular pickups. Make no mistake, I love experimenting. In fact, I think everybody should be required to do it, from school age on up. And you're certainly getting your fair share here with your custom pickups! But the negative side for this particular conversation is that none of us know, I mean know for a fact exactly how your units are constructed. Saying "Seymour Duncan colors" is a red herring. Even Duncan has used different color sets, over time. And knowing where the original individual coils came from is no real help - you haven't given us the exact specs on those either.
Bottom line here is, only member Antigua might be able to divine your pickup construction from your terse descriptions - he is the pickup guru around these noisy halls.  The rest of us are working from a general knowledge that coils have two terminals, and that they sense strings vibrations... not much more than that is needed to lay out a circuit that makes logical sense.
What would ease my mind here is if you were to adopt a policy of thinking in a linear fashion - first fix this, then fix the next thing, then the rest of them, one at a time. You see now why I think that magnet orientation (and the other things) are of no consequence at this moment in time. They will play a crucial part in your tone, but only at the proper time. After the circuit is built, tested and accepted, only then should you worry about how each pickup sounds as it is selected. At that point, you can (and perhaps will) rotate magnets, rotate whole pickup assemblies, swap wires to choose different coils, etc. That's the nature of experimenting to find your desired (and potentially unique) sound.
I hope this has helped you to understand that we Nutz try hard not to go off half-cocked, casting around like blind men looking for shelter in a storm. A lot of experience has molded into us the fact that slow and steady will win the game absolutely every time.
To put it like ChrisK might have said it: Steps in a journey are.
sumgai
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Post by christopher on May 16, 2017 13:54:49 GMT -5
Ok, thanks. I might just ditch position 4 and turn it into neck split. I've already got a diagram for that, it's just that darn position 4 that wants to cause problems.
Thanks for y'all help anyway.
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Post by christopher on May 17, 2017 15:02:02 GMT -5
Ok, I've decided start fresh, ditch the resistors, and actually look at my pickups. Here are the color codes, wind direction and magnetic polarity. The humbuckers are RWRP from eachother.
NECK:
Slug Start: Black
Slug Finish: White
Screw Start: Red
Screw Finish: Green
Slug coil is North and Clockwise
Screw is South and Counter Clockwise
BRIDGE:
Slug Start: White
Slug Finish: Black
Screw Start: Green
Screw Finish: Red
Slug is South and Counter Clockwise
Screw is North and Clockwise
So here's what I want:
5-Neck Humbucker
4-Neck screw (or slug if it splitting to screw isn't possible) and Bridge slug out of phase with neck through capacitor
3-Neck slug and Bridge slug in series
2-Bridge Slug
1-Bridge Humbucker
I don't know how to draw the diagram, but I can draw the individual circuits for each position (with colors) if I figure out how to load a picture to the forum.
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Post by christopher on May 17, 2017 17:45:08 GMT -5
Attached to this I have a schematic that would work for what I want (with a few modifications). If I remove the resistor from the ground connection and add the cap for position 4 (I don't know where), would this work for my wiring? Plus I would get to keep position 3 having the neck screw coil. Attachments:
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They're all on the market because they produce different tonalities, even when used in the exact same electrical circuit. That says to me that what sounds good to one player in one circuit may or may not sound good to another player, or in another circuit. And there are only two components in a pickup - coil windings and magnets, the rest is support structure.
The rest of us are working from a general knowledge that coils have two terminals, and that they sense strings vibrations... not much more than that is needed to lay out a circuit that makes logical sense.