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Post by antigua on May 2, 2023 15:10:30 GMT -5
Surprisingly, the 10k Lil' killer he got had an unusual freq response when tested with white noise through an earbud. As I recall, holding the earbud over one blade had a much higher freq, yet lower level, peak than the other. Using my 160pF cable and the earbud between both blades, the peak centered between 4-4.5kHz with an extended high freq shelf below the peak. I haven't seen that in any other pickups I've tested. Incidentally, the other two pickups had peaks very close to that one. That's a cool idea to test the pickups with a white noise signal. I suppose you were using an audio program to get a frequency measurement, but I wonder if white noise into the pickup would make it's EQ profile audible to the ear, especially if you have bridge and neck pickups that are different inductances. It's often hard to compare them in situ because they're in different positions of the guitar. I'll have to give that a try later. |
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Post by gckelloch on May 2, 2023 16:39:04 GMT -5
Surprisingly, the 10k Lil' killer he got had an unusual freq response when tested with white noise through an earbud. As I recall, holding the earbud over one blade had a much higher freq, yet lower level, peak than the other. Using my 160pF cable and the earbud between both blades, the peak centered between 4-4.5kHz with an extended high freq shelf below the peak. I haven't seen that in any other pickups I've tested. Incidentally, the other two pickups had peaks very close to that one. That's a cool idea to test the pickups with a white noise signal. I suppose you were using an audio program to get a frequency measurement, but I wonder if white noise into the pickup would make it's EQ profile audible to the ear, especially if you have bridge and neck pickups that are different inductances. It's often hard to compare them in situ because they're in different positions of the guitar. I'll have to give that a try later. Im not sure what you are asking. There is a steep roll-off in the low end I assume is because coil movement is so small and depends on the diaphragm and proximity to the ear for relative output level. |
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Post by ms on May 3, 2023 14:37:38 GMT -5
I have always used various signals containing all relevant frequencies at once to test pickups, but always for measuring, not for listening. Great idea!
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Post by gckelloch on May 3, 2023 16:46:38 GMT -5
I have always used various signals containing all relevant frequencies at once to test pickups, but always for measuring, not for listening. Great idea! I just use it to find the peak with freq analyzer software. Not sure if the earbud itself might somehow affect the result. |
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Post by antigua on May 3, 2023 19:19:56 GMT -5
I gave it a try, I loaded this video on my phone and held the speaker up to the pickups, and observed the difference between series / parallel, as well as neck and bridge pickups having different inductances, and wow, you can hear the difference, plain as day. You can hear the resonant cut off very clear, similar to when you cup your hands over your ears. It seems like a easy way to determine if neck and bridge models are much different without need a multimeter to measure DC resistance. It's all around good way to get a specific read on the resonant peak of a pickup without any special equipment aside from a phone and YouTube video. If a person did this a lot they might develop the ability to guestimate the resonant peak by ear alone.
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ajk
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Post by ajk on Nov 28, 2023 23:35:05 GMT -5
My favorite single coil sized blade humbuckers are the lower inductance ones, like the DiMarzio Chopper, or the models that Seymour Duncan and other would designate as a "neck pickup". It's just a sad fact with pickups that in order for the parallel tone to remind you of a good Strat pickup, that you have to have a high inductance in series, seems to be true for full sized and mini sized humbuckers. I have Strat with both hot and cool rail humbuckers, and even the Duckbuckers, in fact I brought the guitar pictured at the top of the thread out of storage to play in our jam later, and I just try to pair up the guitar with songs that will compliment its strength and weakness. I have to admit the Duckbucker is probably more weakness than strength, but I like the variety, it lets me have multiple Strat that don't all do the same thing. I find the Strat with the higher inductance blades that split will to be the most useful, because it can sound like a Strat in parallel or a fire breather in series, it works for a lot of music. The DiMarzio Choppers, and the lower inductance neck pickups, some closest to making good on the promise of a PAF like tone in a Strat, IMO, so I have a good time with that guitar, but to be honest when I want a PAF tone it usually just makes more sense to grab an Epiphone, I have to show my HH guitars some love too. Hey Antigua, I was a little confused by this. You seem to say you prefer lower inductance rails, but you find higher inductance ones are more useful, and sound more like a single coil in parallel or split. So which do you really prefer? ;D Or am I misunderstanding. Also curious if you've specifically tried the Fleor rails that seem most available on amazon right now. I've seen you say a few places that these cheapos are the perfect pickup. Makes me curious what is actually different about all the Dimarzio models when Fleor just gives you 3 different resistance levels to pick from. |
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Post by antigua on Dec 3, 2023 21:39:48 GMT -5
I was a little confused by this. You seem to say you prefer lower inductance rails, but you find higher inductance ones are more useful, and sound more like a single coil in parallel or split. So which do you really prefer? ;D Or am I misunderstanding. It depends on if you want it to sound best as a humbucking Fender single coil sound, or more like a Gibson PAF. There's no good way to get both, unless you take a lower inductance rail, inductance from 5 to 6 henries, and then partially split it with a trim pot in series with the wire that splits the pickup, so that it's not 100% split. I suspect the reason they make these rails often have a high inductance of 8 henries is because the bridge pickups are angled closer to the bridge in Strats and Teles, so even if they have the same inductance as a PAF clone, they sound brighter because of how they're angled. So maybe they lower the resonant peak even more just to offset that brightness. Even though the overall sound might make you think "Gibson humbucker", they lose the clarity of a real Gibson humbucker due to the lower resonant peak. So I prefer to have a rails pickup with the higher resonant peak, and just put up with the fact that the bridge pickup is closer to the bridge in a Strat or a Tele. I suspect that if you put a rails pickup in a Fender with straight aligned pickups, like a Jazzmaster or a Jaguar, it would sound more like a Gibson guitar without having to do anything special. Also curious if you've specifically tried the Fleor rails that seem most available on amazon right now. I've seen you say a few places that these cheapos are the perfect pickup. Makes me curious what is actually different about all the Dimarzio models when Fleor just gives you 3 different resistance levels to pick from. I don't think I tried Fleor specifically, but I've tried a few similar rail pickups in that price range. They're all the same layout as the DiMarzio style rails, but cost a fraction of the price. In general if rails pickups have a DC resistance of about 9k or less, they will sound thick and reasonably clear, like a PAF, and that tends to be called a "neck" pickup, so I'd use "neck" rails for all the positions, if I wanted the guitar to be versatile and not a shredding guitar. This one claims its DC resistance is 6k to 7k www.amazon.com/FLEOR-Alnico-Humbucker-Single-Coil-Sized-Pickup/dp/B09YCRHQ7Z/ref=sr_1_1?crid=O2LP6MJ696Z2&keywords=fleor%2Brails%2Bpickups&qid=1701657167&sprefix=fleor%2Brails%2Bpickup%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1&th=1 , I'm interested in what the inductance of that pickup is, and how it sounds. Customers seem to be very satisfied. 6k to 7k, using the DiMarzio Chopper as a point of comparison, if theu use same size of wire, and I suspect they have to because of how small the coils are, then the inductance would be around 4 to 5 henries, and have a loaded resonant peak closer to 2.7kHz. It looks really promising. |
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foxmilder
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Post by foxmilder on Dec 15, 2023 13:12:57 GMT -5
Here is a set of "BHK" pickups claiming lower DC resistance specs than any Chinese rail/"little" pickup I've found before.
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ajk
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Post by ajk on Dec 18, 2023 11:10:15 GMT -5
It depends on if you want it to sound best as a humbucking Fender single coil sound, or more like a Gibson PAF. There's no good way to get both, unless you take a lower inductance rail, inductance from 5 to 6 henries, and then partially split it with a trim pot in series with the wire that splits the pickup, so that it's not 100% split. So if you're going for a PAF tone you prefer the lower inductance such as the Chopper, but a higher inductance in parallel does a better single coil tone? I guess the higher inductance in parallel will have a higher resonant frequency than the lower inductance. Is the frequency doubled when you go from series to parallel? I don't think I tried Fleor specifically, but I've tried a few similar rail pickups in that price range. They're all the same layout as the DiMarzio style rails, but cost a fraction of the price. In general if rails pickups have a DC resistance of about 9k or less, they will sound thick and reasonably clear, like a PAF, and that tends to be called a "neck" pickup, so I'd use "neck" rails for all the positions, if I wanted the guitar to be versatile and not a shredding guitar. This one claims its DC resistance is 6k to 7k www.amazon.com/FLEOR-Alnico-Humbucker-Single-Coil-Sized-Pickup/dp/B09YCRHQ7Z/ref=sr_1_1?crid=O2LP6MJ696Z2&keywords=fleor%2Brails%2Bpickups&qid=1701657167&sprefix=fleor%2Brails%2Bpickup%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-1&th=1 , I'm interested in what the inductance of that pickup is, and how it sounds. Customers seem to be very satisfied. 6k to 7k, using the DiMarzio Chopper as a point of comparison, if theu use same size of wire, and I suspect they have to because of how small the coils are, then the inductance would be around 4 to 5 henries, and have a loaded resonant peak closer to 2.7kHz. It looks really promising. This one says alnico, they also have a ceramic version that's a bit cheaper. I think I remember you saying you preferred ceramic anyhow with these? (Thanks for the reply btw, I didn't get an email about it and am new to the forum. Now i've found the setting) |
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Post by antigua on Dec 29, 2023 0:17:59 GMT -5
So if you're going for a PAF tone you prefer the lower inductance such as the Chopper, but a higher inductance in parallel does a better single coil tone? I guess the higher inductance in parallel will have a higher resonant frequency than the lower inductance. Is the frequency doubled when you go from series to parallel? This one says alnico, they also have a ceramic version that's a bit cheaper. I think I remember you saying you preferred ceramic anyhow with these? (Thanks for the reply btw, I didn't get an email about it and am new to the forum. Now i've found the setting) > So if you're going for a PAF tone you prefer the lower inductance such as the Chopper, but a higher inductance in parallel does a better single coil tone? I guess the higher inductance in parallel will have a higher resonant frequency than the lower inductance. Yeah, for a PAF you want a final inductance around 4 to 5 henries, maybe 6 at the most, certainly not 8. For a good single coil tone, 2 to 3 henries. The problem is that no humbucker will do 4 to 5 in series, but 2 to 3 in parallel. A variable split is the best bet, or just buy one that prioritizes one sound or the other. > Is the frequency doubled when you go from series to parallel? The frequency doesn't double, because while the inductance drops to about a quarter of the series value, while the capacitance doubles. Interestingly, the parallel peak frequency is often very close to the split frequency. > This one says alnico, they also have a ceramic version that's a bit cheaper. I think I remember you saying you preferred ceramic anyhow with these? Yeah, ceramic is definitely better. I think it would be interesting to see neodymium magnets used in that type of pickup. |
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rafaelalt
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Post by rafaelalt on Oct 9, 2024 22:26:20 GMT -5
Hi, everyone, greetings from Rio de Janeiro.
Antigua, I spent the last couple of hours reading some of your posts, you're a godsend.
I know this sounds weird, but I just started a weird project so if I may ask: do you think there's someway to make a guitar single-coil sound like a split precision bass? When I read that the vintage rails wired in series get to 11k-ish DC and 6-ish henries, that's vintage p-bass territory, but could it work just as well?
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Post by antigua on Oct 10, 2024 14:29:11 GMT -5
Hi, everyone, greetings from Rio de Janeiro. Antigua, I spent the last couple of hours reading some of your posts, you're a godsend. I know this sounds weird, but I just started a weird project so if I may ask: do you think there's someway to make a guitar single-coil sound like a split precision bass? When I read that the vintage rails wired in series get to 11k-ish DC and 6-ish henries, that's vintage p-bass territory, but could it work just as well? Referring back to guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7896/fender-vintage-precision-analysis-review, the P-Bass pickup has an inductance around 6 henries, but a high Q factor due to the shorter AlNiCo pole pieces. Any pickup with a steel core like the Rails pickups, will have a low Q factor due to the eddy currents. The Q factor of the P-Bass pickup is a lot higher than even that of a Strat or Tele pickup, +4dB at resonance with control pot load. A lot of the P-Bass sound is from where the pickup is position in the guitar. it's comparable the location of the Strat's middle pickup. If you had a Strat with 500k or 1 meg pots, and a middle pickups of high inductance, like a Seymour Duncan SSL-5, it would come pretty close to matching a P-Pass pickup specs and positioning, but without any humbucking. Or you could use a regular Strat pickup and put a cap in parallel to bring the resonant peak down closer to the 2kHz range. A small company makes a Strat pickup called the Bi Polar reverb.com/item/42869072-pearl-strat-pickguard-loaded-with-s-s-bipolar-single-coil-pickups-and-switch . It's a split single coil design, like a P-Bass pickup. The pickup position is the most important factor though. The middle pickup of a Strat is pretty much what a P-Bass would sound like if it were tuned to standard 6 string guitar pitch. |
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rafaelalt
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Post by rafaelalt on Oct 19, 2024 10:26:51 GMT -5
Hey, Antigua.
I wanted to take my time and get back to you with some tests of my own but it's past time I should've thanked you for the priceless info.
Considering I mostly record these days, I think the Chopper could work with some EQing, but then many others could work.
I just red your review of the Lace Sensor trio, and the Blue also seemed to be a fitting option, maybe with different pots, tho not as close as the SSL-5. What are your thoughts here?
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Post by antigua on Oct 19, 2024 14:28:49 GMT -5
Hey, Antigua. I wanted to take my time and get back to you with some tests of my own but it's past time I should've thanked you for the priceless info. Considering I mostly record these days, I think the Chopper could work with some EQing, but then many others could work. I just red your review of the Lace Sensor trio, and the Blue also seemed to be a fitting option, maybe with different pots, tho not as close as the SSL-5. What are your thoughts here? Oh, you want to match the P-Bass resonant peak as closely as possible? In that case the Deluxe Drive looks pretty close guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/9627/fender-deluxe-pickups-analysis-review . If you want to just do something quick, you can take an ordinary Strat and add capacitance in parallel with the pickups, using alligator clips, to drop the resonance down to where you like. I'd try cap values ranging from .5nF to 5nF. |
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rafaelalt
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Post by rafaelalt on Oct 19, 2024 21:20:30 GMT -5
That could be quick indeed, currently I have a crappy single-coil I think I took from a Squier Bronco Bass I had and replaced the ceramic bar with A5 polepieces.
I'll try to record something with it as it is and add to the post I want to bring here with my tests. Hopefully this next week.
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