oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 11, 2017 17:55:14 GMT -5
Hi!
Since I completed the wiring for my Jackson superstrat with EMGs, I want to jump to a second project now!
I have this old SSS strat, it was my first guitar long time ago. Some weeks ago a friend gave me a HSS pickguard, and now that I have Jackson's humbuckers available I want to use one on this guitar. I'd need your wise suggestions, options I'd like to get:
1 volume for the humbucker, 1 for both single coils. No tone pot. I was about to leave one hole on the pickguard empty since I don't like a pot being placed on the standard "volume position" (it's uncomfortable to me), but maybe I can put a killswitch button in its place, if I get one.
I have a regular 5 position import switch, here it's kinda difficult for me to get special switches like superswitch, push/pull pots, blend pots etc. but I can drill holes in the pickguard and I can get dpdt switches, or buttons. Let's keep it with simple components.
I'm considering wiring it to get:
1) Middle 2) Middle x Neck 3) Neck 4) Neck x Bridge 5) Bridge
Where x is parallel connection.
This is because I'd really like to get that Neck x Bridge position and I personally don't care that much about Bridge x Middle (But I'd happily replace middle alone position with that or anything else. Anyway, I guess that's difficult without a superswitch)
I think I could use one dpdt switch (one with a button would be more useful to me than a selector) to get series/parallel for the coils of the Humbucker. I think I prefer that instead of splitting coils.
And then another switch to get series/parallel between all the pickups.
I'm mostly trying to avoid non hum cancelling options.
I have the basic wiring clear, adding those switches and an extra killswitch not so much. I searched but didn't find something with 2 volumes too.
Other option would be doing something with the middle pickup to have the chance to mix it with the rest, or maybe a switch to turn it off. I'm just figuring that kind of things, don't have idea how to practically do it.
Any other suggestion or easier ways to achieve the results are welcomed.
Thanks!
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Post by JohnH on Sept 11, 2017 21:30:26 GMT -5
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Post by newey on Sept 11, 2017 22:45:49 GMT -5
oscarok- This much, anyway, is easily done. It's just std. Strat wiring with the neck and middle pickups swapped at the 5-way switch. But of course, you want more and therefore add complexity . . . Yes, that's easy enough. There is a module to do this in the Schematics section. Actually, probably several such modules. This is added to your scheme between the bridge pickup and the 5-way switch. OK, now your wish list collides with reality. But first, we have to define what you mean, and what you really want, as far as series/parallel options. If you mean that you want the option for a switch to go from N X M X B (i.e., series connections) to N + M + B (i.e., parallel connections), that's going to require more than a DPDT switch; it will probably need 4 poles. If, the other hand, you mean that you want to be able to access all possible series/parallel options between 3 pickups, this will require multiple switches. You can make your life a lot more simple if you focus on just a couple of series combos that are truly useful. For example, you won't find many fans for N X M X B, all three in series is a bit much (and sounds "muddy" to my ears). N X M, on the other hand, gives you essentially another HB in the (sort-of) neck position. So, (N X M) + Br HB can approximate a 2 HB guitar. This sort of thing can be done with a single DPDT switch. If you want a push button instead, make sure you buy a (DPDT) "latching"- type switch, as opposed to the momentary style of switch, which is useful for an intermittent kill switch but not for pickup switching. And certainly, JohnH's scheme that he links to above is a classic around here, with a nice range of useful combos. You should consider it closely.
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 12, 2017 15:59:12 GMT -5
Oh, Hi JohnH! I saw your post about your HSS strat, but didn't see that one with 2 volumes. Maybe I can take some ideas from it. Thanks! And I really like the concept of your 15 sounds strat because of it's simple components and amount of new options. The thing is for me it's kinda too much options/switching for a live situation, and I'd prefer to have less options but more accessible, like the chance to go from bridge HB to "neck and middle in series" with ease (like having 2 humbuckers, somehow), or the same going from Bridge coils in series to parallel. Bridge HB will probably be my go to option. So, I'm figuring out something like a logic tree. It would have two dpdt switches, 1 for series/parallel of bridge inner coils, and 2 for series/parallel of neck and middle PUs: 5 way switch sw1 up / sw2 up sw1 down / sw2 down sw1 down / sw2 up sw1 up / sw2 down position 1 Bn x Bs Bn + Bs Bn + Bs Bn x Bs 2 (Bn x Bs) + N (Bn + Bs) + N (Bn + Bs) + N (Bn x Bs) + N 3 N N N N 4 N x M N + M N x M N + M 5 M M M M X: series +: parallel This gives me 8 different sounds. With both switches up it would be like a "hard rock" guitar. With both down, a more "funky/clean" guitar. I realize you can get those sounds with your scheme (and many more things), I just want to have a simple way to go from one option to another for live playing. Now I have to figure out the wiring for that. The only drawback is there's a position I'll never ever ever use in any option, the number 5 hahaha Is there a way to bridge it/mix it? soldering it to another position or something? if not I wouldn't mind too much. Thanks newey! I was mostly considering the Middle and Neck series/parallel option, and you made it clearer. Regarding the dpdt latching switch, is there a recommended model to attach it to the pickguard? Also, about the killswitch I read I have to get a momentary normally open spst button. But what I've read mentions wiring when you have one master volume. How about 2 volumes? should I solder wires from both pots lugs to the switch ? Or can I do this: (some say it's noisier than the first option)
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Post by JohnH on Sept 12, 2017 16:59:50 GMT -5
I completely agree with the need for simple switching for live playing. I think its good to be able to move between your two most useful sounds with one switch only. I also find that on a 5-way, for a move mid-song, the only one I can manage is between 1 and 5 unless I can pause for a few beats.
Another thing I found, with pickups that Ive tried on a few mods, is that two singles in series can get muddy.
This is what led to that 15-sound scheme. On my hss guitar, a much better neck humbucker eqivalent is NxBs. Its thick and full with plenty of the neck tone but with clarity and it fits well against the bridge humbucker, or fade it down to a pure neck single. There's a simpler version that still does all that, with no added switch.
Enough about that.
On your design, that would be very versatile but despite rearranging the pickup order as you have, with M at 5, I think it would still need a superswitch to get the changes wanted at positions 2 and 5. The reason is that the standard switches inherently combine the main lugs in parallel at those settings so you cant seperate 2 and 5 positions for series. Series settings with srandard 5ways tend to get three settings all the same, as in that two-volume scheme and others similar.
Just floating those thoughts...
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 12, 2017 18:47:21 GMT -5
I feel the same way!! haha Although the switch on my Jackson superstrat feels easier to select intermediate positions, this strat's switch is hard to control. That's why I've considered 2 switches. Press one and you have a "single" (let's say) in the bridge, press the other and you have a "humbucker" in the neck. That, if the switches work. What about using higher resistance values for neck and middle volume pot? would that make it brighter? Wait, I like that appreciation. It helps me to get and idea of how your wiring works/sounds. Which of all those 15 options do you use for cleaner sounds and how difficult is it to get them while you play? or perhaps you don't use your guitar that way. Also, how does that blender sound, you get like gradual transitions of sounds? Sorry, I don't know if I'm following this last paragraph. You mean that I won't be able to get series connections to work the way I wanted? Like, when series selected on switch 2, positions 1, 2 and 3 will be something repetitive? like this, but not exactly either (I'm just guessing) 5 way switch sw1 up / sw2 up sw1 down / sw2 down sw1 down / sw2 up sw1 up / sw2 down position 1 ) (Bn x Bs) x N Bn + Bs (Bn + Bs) x N Bn x Bs 2 ) (Bn x Bs) x N (Bn + Bs) + N (Bn + Bs) x N (Bn x Bs) + N 3 ) (Bn x Bs) x N N (Bn + Bs) x N N 4 ) (Bn x Bs) x N x M N + M (Bn + Bs) x N x M N + M 5 ) (Bn x Bs) x M M (Bn + Bs) x M M x: series +: parallel Or maybe is another thing I don't realize. This is getting more complex than what I expected
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Post by newey on Sept 12, 2017 19:41:46 GMT -5
Which was my point. JohnH is right, you'll need a Superswitch to get all those series combos. Even with that, we'd have to work out whether it can be done exactly as you wish.
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 12, 2017 22:57:11 GMT -5
Which was my point. JohnH is right, you'll need a Superswitch to get all those series combos. Even with that, we'd have to work out whether it can be done exactly as you wish. The only series option I'd have liked to get is "neck x middle", as stated in my first logic tree. Just with that I'd be more than happy, but for what I understood from John that's not possible. In the last thing I posted I was trying to guess what John told me. I think I'll try with the hss scheme with blender. Or maybe just a switch for series/parallel on humbucker's coils. Thanks!
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Post by JohnH on Sept 13, 2017 0:00:59 GMT -5
This one might give you something close to what you would like, I built it into a simple Asian strat for my son: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7117/strat-ssm3-series-parallel-switchit uses a basic toggle with any 5-way switch, to change to a set of sounds that include N+B. Then from there, you and wind M in series gradually, so you can get BxM, (B+N)xM, plus the NxM that you want. You could add it this, another toggle to change the B pickup from having its coils series or parallel, which would affect any setting that includes B.
Back to your idea, with the import switch. I think the following would be possible (not fully checked) 1. B 2. B+N 3. N 4. N+M 5. M, then changing using a two-pole toggle to something like : 1. BxM 2. B+N)x M 3. NxM 4. M 5. M
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 13, 2017 15:39:09 GMT -5
I'll just try your hss scheme.
Can I use a regular pot for the blender? The ones I have are 250k and 500k, log and lineal.
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Post by JohnH on Sept 13, 2017 16:24:50 GMT -5
I'll just try your hss scheme. Can I use a regular pot for the blender? The ones I have are 250k and 500k, log and lineal. Ok cool. A regular log 250k pot should be fine. On mine, I used a 250k log no-load pot, which disconnects to become out of circuit as it gets to the full series 'humbucker'. But I found that in this application, that last bit from 9.5 to 10 as it cuts out has no audible change since it is already full by then. Whereas from 0 to about 7 there is a nice smooth change. Apart from pure neck single and the max 'humbucker' tones at each end of the blend range, there are several nice in-between tones where you add a bit of the extra coil to thicken-up the neck. You can preset that neck tone then use the 5-way to move to bridge humbucker while playing. Before you start, there are a couple of things to check. The diagram is based on a Fender switch in which the two sides are seperate. The common pole lugs are not connected to each other. You should check that on your switch, the two c lugs are not connected to each other within the switch. This does not matter with normal strat wiring but it does with this. Also, its worked out so that when a bridge coil is combined with another coil as a pair in series or parallel, it is always hum-cancelling. To ensure this, the relative magnetic polarities need to be as drawn so a south is combined with a north. I indicated this through the colour shading on the coils. See if the bridge coil nearest the middle is the same magnetism as the middle. Might as well get it right.
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 13, 2017 22:56:34 GMT -5
I'm going to use a 250k log regular pot, but maybe to achieve that effect of transition it would be useful to have a no load log pot with a smaller resistance value, like 100k.
Check, common lugs are independent one from each other.
To be honest I've never checked for magnetic polarity. I tested with neck and middle coils, and with the original bridge single coil and middle too. I see the bottom of middle pickup attracts the bottom of both bridge and neck singlecoils. So, I think middle has reverse polarity, as everybody says (never checked that by myself).
Then I guess the bottom of middle pickup should repel the bottom of bridge humbucker coil (the one closest to middle) in order for both coils to have the same magnetic polarity. Am I right?
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Post by JohnH on Sept 14, 2017 1:56:19 GMT -5
You're on the right track. But humbuckers have a u-shaped magnetic circuit with a flat bar magnet beneath. So it may be better to base it on the tops. Ideally, the bridge poles on top of the pickup which repel the top of the middle pickup will be located closest to the middle PU to match the diagram. Then you need to work out which colour wires correspond to which coil.
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oscarok
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Post by oscarok on Sept 14, 2017 9:55:20 GMT -5
Ahhh, I get it! Ok, I'll do that.
And I know the wires color code because I modded the humbucker from 2 to 4 conductors. I used this tutorial with the same color code.
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