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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 10, 2018 23:39:23 GMT -5
Merry Christmas, bigdon62 . And Happy Easter, too. Now what? Now we know that this switch isn't a 'pure' 4P6T. Almost that, but it's as if the four poles are tied together in pairs. We can do some interesting things with it, but it won't be as inherently flexible as a superswitch. The TA and TB connections won't be of any use other than to suppress switching noises on transition. So now we set about the task of looking at which combinations you'd like to achieve and determining if those can be met with this switch.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 11, 2018 21:41:59 GMT -5
Ok, so reposting the original Phostenix diagram I've been hoping to use as a starting point: Here's some descriptive text from the old Phostenix webpage: This uses a 5-Way Super Switch. Positions 1, 3, & 5 are the typical choices you associate with 2 pickup guitars (Bridge only, Neck & Bridge in Parallel, Neck only). Positions 4 & 2 are (respectively) the 2 pickups in Series and the 2 pickups in parallel, but Half Out-of-Phase, so I call it 5-Way SHOoP switching (Series - Half Out of Phase). This setup gives you these 5 choices: 1. Bridge 2. Neck & Bridge in Parallel - Half Out-of-Phase 3. Neck & Bridge in Parallel 4. Neck & Bridge in Series 5. Neck In Position 2, the pickups are out-of-phase, but with a cap & resistor in series with the Neck pickup and a resistor in series with the Bridge pickup. The cap in series with the Neck pickup is what makes it "half" out-of-phase and the resistors help give a little more quack to the sound. The goal is to get a sound similar to a Strat in-between tone. The value of the cap and the resistors should be tailored to the pickups being used, but .01uF for the cap & 6.2K Ohms for the resistors is a good place to start. Any time I have pickups in series, I try to add my modified TBX tone control. The bass cut from the modified TBX tone control really helps to thin out the in-series connection when needed.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 11, 2018 21:42:28 GMT -5
Now I have six positions instead of 5, and I'm using TVJones T-Armonds instead of Tele pickups. For the sixth position I'm hoping to add Series out of Phase. Here are the six positions as I've mocked them up so far: 1 In Series 2 Parallel Half out of Phase 3 Series out of Phase 4 Neck 5 Parallel 6 Bridge I used this diagram as a starting point and then tried modifying it to mirror the functionality of the Phostenix diagram.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 11, 2018 21:42:55 GMT -5
Here's what I've got so far - obviously incomplete and with errors, as indicated on the diagram. And, I have no idea how to go about getting it right.
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 12, 2018 0:11:40 GMT -5
Now I have six positions instead of 5, and I'm using TVJones T-Armonds instead of Tele pickups. For the sixth position I'm hoping to add Series out of Phase. Here are the six positions as I've mocked them up so far: 1 In Series 2 Parallel Half out of Phase 3 Series out of Phase 4 Neck 5 Parallel 6 Bridge (position 2) There should be a .01µF cap and 6.2k resistor in series with the Neck pickup, and another 6.2k resistor in series with the Bridge pickup. The cap in series with the Neck is what makes it sound "half" out-of-phase. This tells me almost everything I need to know. One thing which isn't specific. I know there is a resistor and capacitor in series with the Neck pickup. Are the resistor and capacitor in series with each other and in series with the Neck pickup? Or are they in parallel with each other and in series with the Neck pickup? Also, are you certain you want the cap in series with the Neck? The Bridge pickup won't have much bottom to begin with. Might be better to have the bottom end from the Neck pickup present in the final product. Your call, either way.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 12, 2018 20:46:02 GMT -5
I know there is a resistor and capacitor in series with the Neck pickup. Are the resistor and capacitor in series with each other and in series with the Neck pickup? Or are they in parallel with each other and in series with the Neck pickup? Looking at the original diagram, it looks to me like they're in parallel with each other and in series with the Neck pickup. You saw the same thing, I gather. Let's go with that. Also, are you certain you want the cap in series with the Neck? The Bridge pickup won't have much bottom to begin with. Your logic makes good enough sense, I considered it ... except that I have the 5-way superswitch wiring already installed on a Jazzcaster and I really like the sounds in all five positions. So I think I want to keep the cap as-is, on the Neck.
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 14, 2018 10:07:13 GMT -5
Your logic makes good enough sense, I considered it ... except that I have the 5-way superswitch wiring already installed on a Jazzcaster and I really like the sounds in all five positions. So I think I want to keep the cap as-is, on the Neck. No problem. We'll do that. Looking at the original diagram, it looks to me like they're in parallel with each other and in series with the Neck pickup. You saw the same thing, I gather. Let's go with that. Well, I could have seen that if I was paying attention. Actually they're in series. The resistor is connected on the Neck(-) end and the cap is connected on the Neck(+) Later today or tomorrow, I'll make a map for each of the six positions and we can transfer that to the freeway drawing.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 14, 2018 17:43:09 GMT -5
Actually they're in series. Oops. Thanks! Later today or tomorrow, I'll make a map for each of the six positions and we can transfer that to the freeway drawing. And thanks again!
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 15, 2018 23:23:14 GMT -5
These need to be vetted for accuracy before you run with them.
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Post by newey on Apr 16, 2018 5:48:03 GMT -5
The diagram checks out by me. Thanks, RT for jumping in to help with this.
For clarification's sake, it should be noted that the term "half out of phase" has been used to mean different things at different times. Here, the neck pickup is both OOP with the bridge and in series with the cap/resistor.
I also note that the "transition" lugs, TA and TB, have not been used. Do we know that switching across from 1,2,3 to 4,5,6 won't cause BigdDon top have a noise that these lugs were apparently meant to alleviate? Are those lugs typically shown as being grounded on the switch mfr.'s diagrams?
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 16, 2018 12:21:45 GMT -5
I also note that the "transition" lugs, TA and TB, have not been used. Do we know that switching across from 1,2,3 to 4,5,6 won't cause BigDon top have a noise that these lugs were apparently meant to alleviate? Are those lugs typically shown as being grounded on the switch mfr.'s diagrams? The manufacturer has schematics for two pickups, one volume, and one tone here: www.freewayswitch.com/app/download/7524784615/3X3-05+2PU+2Pot+A.pdfObservations about the TA and TB pads: 1. The first diagram always has the neck PU connected to the TA pad, and the bridge PU is always connected to the TB pad 2. On the other hand, in the last diagram there are NO connections to either the TA or TB pad Not sure what we can deduce from this but thought I would try to contribute.
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 16, 2018 15:01:52 GMT -5
I also note that the "transition" lugs, TA and TB, have not been used. Do we know that switching across from 1,2,3 to 4,5,6 won't cause BigDon top have a noise that these lugs were apparently meant to alleviate? Are those lugs typically shown as being grounded on the switch mfr.'s diagrams? The manufacturer has schematics for two pickups, one volume, and one tone here: www.freewayswitch.com/app/download/7524784615/3X3-05+2PU+2Pot+A.pdfObservations about the TA and TB pads: 1. The first diagram always has the neck PU connected to the TA pad, and the bridge PU is always connected to the TB pad 2. On the other hand, in the last diagram there are NO connections to either the TA or TB pad Not sure what we can deduce from this but thought I would try to contribute. BD, you've already contributed quite a bit by going through the tedious process of continuity checks and confirming our suspicions about how the switch functions in each of the six positions. That covers the 'static' performance. I really don't know how to determine the 'dynamic' performance. I suppose if anyone speaks 'Freeway-ese' they might be able to know the best use of TA and TB in this application by reading the lower box in this image: We could try to analyze what will remain connected in transition on the non-greyed portion (upper half) and what might need to be added via TA and/or TB. Or you might just build the circuit as-drawn and note which transitions (if any) produce switching noise, and we could move on from there. When I say 'we' I mean you and any of the other nutz who might want to lead the charge right now, and perhaps me at a later time. I'm getting a bit burned out atm. Worth noting, there are a total of 9 circuits (pdfs) published by the Freeway folks for the 3x3-05 listed on their schematics page. www.freewayswitch.com/schematics/ There might be enough in those from which to glean some useful information.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 16, 2018 20:15:51 GMT -5
When I say 'we' I mean you and any of the other nutz who might want to lead the charge right now, and perhaps me at a later time. I'm getting a bit burned out atm. Fair enough, very much appreciate what you've done here! I'm probably a month or two from getting this wired up (I'm using an Epiphone Broadway as the base for a sort of homemade Gretsch Falcon, and just got started on stripping off the old finish). I can run with what we've got here - if I find unpleasant pops between pickup settings I'll come back with questions, and see if the community can help me sort it out. Considering the manufacturer has at least one schematic that makes no use of the TA/TB pads, I don't think it's a problem until I have concrete observations to indicate as such. And no matter how it turns out, good or bad, I'll be back here to provide a status and final commentary on the Freeway switch. Thanks!!!!!! BD
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Post by thetragichero on Apr 17, 2018 9:28:05 GMT -5
if anyone speaks 'Freeway-ese' i wanted to post a certain mr griswold asking for directions back to the freeway, but realized it was a little... effusive for these here parts...
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 17, 2018 11:08:09 GMT -5
if anyone speaks 'Freeway-ese' i wanted to post a certain mr griswold asking for directions back to the freeway, but realized it was a little... effusive for these here parts... You might be overdue for a Vacation. When I say 'we' I mean you and any of the other nutz who might want to lead the charge right now, and perhaps me at a later time. I'm getting a bit burned out atm. Fair enough, very much appreciate what you've done here! I'm probably a month or two from getting this wired up (I'm using an Epiphone Broadway as the base for a sort of homemade Gretsch Falcon, and just got started on stripping off the old finish). I can run with what we've got here - if I find unpleasant pops between pickup settings I'll come back with questions, and see if the community can help me sort it out. Considering the manufacturer has at least one schematic that makes no use of the TA/TB pads, I don't think it's a problem until I have concrete observations to indicate as such.And no matter how it turns out, good or bad, I'll be back here to provide a status and final commentary on the Freeway switch. Thanks!!!!!! BD As I thought more about this, I reckon the only need for the use of TA/TB pads would be to prevent an open-circuit condition which might occur during some transitions (which would result in hum/noise during that brief transition period). I'd suggest wiring as-drawn, as the starting point then note any transitions which result in a brief burst of hum during the transition period. (If you could write down and report those problem transitions, that would be helpful in the larger scheme of things.) If there are no bursts, then done. If there are bursts, then connect TA to Bridge(+). Since Bridge(-) is wired directly to ground, I'm guessing this will connect the Bridge pickup during the transition period, so there won't be an open-circuit situation during transition. If you document the process and report the results, that would add quite a bit to our shared knowledge base. So maybe we'll hear from you in a month or two. Good luck. In the meanwhile, no need to be a stranger. Feel free to visit other areas of the forum and chat with us on other subjects or frolic in the Coffee Shop.
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bigdon62
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Post by bigdon62 on Apr 17, 2018 13:56:35 GMT -5
You might be overdue for a Vacation. LOL If you document the process and report the results, that would add quite a bit to our shared knowledge base. Definitely will do. In the meanwhile, no need to be a stranger. Oh yeah, I'll be around. Thanks again!
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tubejockey
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Post by tubejockey on Oct 19, 2018 20:20:28 GMT -5
I know this is kind of an old thread by now, but I am new to this forum and still catching up. This is not exactly what the OP was looking for, but anyone digging into options may find it useful. This is one I wired into a dual P-90 guitar that had no tone control. It uses the Freeway 3x3-03 switch in a simple, intuitive layout. Feel free to adjust component values to suit your pickups.
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