aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 15, 2017 22:25:20 GMT -5
Gentlemen,
I am certain that this is not the first post about coil splitting a passive EMG HZ4 pickup. However, I have searched the net and read a good handful of posts just to get more uncertain about the subject. My wiring skills as follows: I can wire a house but can ruin a guitar pickup in no time unless someone holds my hands.
I installed a passive EMG-H4 and a H4A into my Agile 3000 Les Paul copy two years ago. I used the quick connect kit from EMG, this made it sure that the guitar worked after installation. Now I would like to split one of the pickups. I bought a long shaft push-pull pot from Stewart McDonald some time ago but has not had the confidence to installing it.
I'd like to retain the quick connect wiring kit as much as possible. However, installing the push-pull pot would require some soldering. I am fine with soldering, just I do not know what to cut and where to solder. I enclose an image here, showing the original EMG quick connect diagram and the push-pull pot. I marked the original tone pot with a red X. This is what I'd like to replace with the push-pull. I numbered every wire of the harness and letter coded the tabs of the push-pull pot. Would some of you take the time please and either mark up the image showing which wire and which color goes where? Alternatively just please describe that wire # and color connects to push-pull tab letter so and so.
Having a marked up image displayed will help others of "my skill level" to embark on splitting a HZ4 pickup without ruining it.
Many thanks to all and please do not tell me that Google is my friend, I asked that friend many times and got plenty confused.
ADDENDUM: I cannot upload my file, a message comes up saying that "this forum reached its file upload limit". Therefore, no more uploads to this forum. However, I still would like to have your help. Please send me a mail to aikozma@mac.com. Then I can respond to you and send the above mentioned image over to you. Any and every direct help is greatly appreciated.
Best regards, Antal
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Post by newey on Dec 16, 2017 8:03:23 GMT -5
aikbreeze/antal-
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
Sorry, but I had to move your post from the "pickups" section, since what you're asking is a wiring question. The "pickups" section is for reviews of various pickups, not for wiring questions. But no worries, we cut newcomers a bit of slack on this stuff.
Sorry you're having difficulty with attaching your diagram. We're working on that.
Anyway, what I see from EMG- and you tell me if this matches what you have- is that each pickup has a 5-wire connector (4 coil wires plus a bare shield wire)which plugs into the underside of the pickup. At the other end, there is a smaller connector that connects the red and green, plus bare, wires, with the black and white wires taped together, off to the side and not connected by the connector. Is this what you have?
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 16, 2017 11:52:52 GMT -5
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 20:07:17 GMT -5
No, mine is the quick connector set, no separate loose wire. Every wire has a quick connect female end that simply pushes onto the set of male parts on the pickups and the pots on the other end.
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 20:14:34 GMT -5
Answer for reTrEaD: yes that is the EMG wiring kit that I used when installed the pickups. Works fine, fool proof. Now I'd like to split the neck pickup. Just have received a mail from EMG Tech. The fellow described how to split, makes sense for everyone I suppose. I followed the instructions, bridge pickup works, neck pickup does nothing now. I suppose I am still the sole person who does not understand what is absolutely clear for everyone else...... I tried again to upload the image I mentioned in my original post. It still does not work. The .jpeg file is under the stated maximum size, so it should be OK. However, I still get a message saying that the forum has reached its allowable upload limit. Therefore my file cannot be uploaded. If any of you knowledgeable people would send me a mail to aikozma@mac.com then I can answer to that directly and send my marked up file over. I numbered every wire and pot lug in the image, so someone can tell me that connect wire # this or that to pot lug # so and so. I could handle that....... Thanks to all, AIK
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 20, 2017 20:49:00 GMT -5
Answer for reTrEaD: yes that is the EMG wiring kit that I used when installed the pickups. Works fine, fool proof. Now I'd like to split the neck pickup. Just have received a mail from EMG Tech. The fellow described how to split, makes sense for everyone I suppose. I followed the instructions, bridge pickup works, neck pickup does nothing now. I suppose I am still the sole person who does not understand what is absolutely clear for everyone else...... Okay, so you need to add 1 push-pull pot for each pickup you want to split. I'll try to find you some information on a solderless push-pull for passive pickups. I tried again to upload the image I mentioned in my original post. It still does not work. The .jpeg file is under the stated maximum size, so it should be OK. However, I still get a message saying that the forum has reached its allowable upload limit. Therefore my file cannot be uploaded. The problem isn't on your end. We've used too much space and proboards won't let us upload more. Solution:Upload your image to tinypic or any free image hosting service and paste the link to that image into your post in this thread. EDIT: Arrrgggghhh!!! EMG doesn't make a push-pull for their passive pickups only for the actives. That means splitting a pickup will require cutting one of your pickup cables, and wiring it to a standard soldered push-pull pot. If the cable is cut so there is enough length to get the 5-pin end to the pickup and there is enough length left on the 2-pin end we might need to cut only one cable.
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 21:34:34 GMT -5
Yes, that is what bothers me. They conveniently do not make a push/pull for the passive pickups. It does not make sense to me but they have their own reasons I suppose. It would be too easy for "my kind" to split the humbucker with a quick connect system, so they make it "more interesting", a bit more challenging. Indeed, I would have to cut the wire comingn in from the neck pickup and use it as a regular soldering wire. That is what I am afraid of to do. Once I screw up there I am out of luck. Although I always can order another set of quick connect wire system. Just that I am in Canada and it is kind of hard here to order parts easily. Yes, EMG will send one set here just that by the time it gets here it will be exorbitantly expensive for what it is. This set that I use was ordered to a friend of mine's address in Iowa, I picked it up from him when I was visiting with him a couple of years ago. Anyway, I try to park my image on some third party site and paste the link in here. That said, I still could be contacted straight at my address ( aikozma@mac.com) and I could respond to the dear fellow who would help me one on one. I could send my image in my response mail. That would be quite easy too. Off to finding a third party mage parking site in the meantime........ Best regards, AIK
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 21:47:30 GMT -5
O.K. That tinypic was not as hard as I thought it would have been. Here is the link: tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2co5r8h&s=9#.WjseiUtG0c0I numbered all wires in the existing EMH quick connect setup. Marked the tone pot that I'd like to replace with the push/pull pot. Marked all lugs and tabs on the push/pull pot too. So, some knowledgeable person could just tell me what number of wire should be connected to what letter of tab or lug on the push/pull pot.Then I would be much more confident cutting off quick connect ends and soldering the appropriate wires to the push/pull pot. Thanks folks, I try to get education here but I am a slow learning student. My guitar playing skills demonstrate that slow learning part very well.........
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 20, 2017 22:29:12 GMT -5
Okay, here's the image to which you linked: I guess this implies you want to replace your solderless tone pot (neck) with the push-pull. I believe that might actually be the simplest and cleanest way to do it. We'll only need to cut one cable. The connector that goes from the neck volume to the neck tone. You'll need to buy a capacitor. .047 uF is what EMG uses in their passive tone controls Mylar or film/foil or metallized film, doesn't much matter which type. Even ceramic would work. We'll work out the details on how to make the connections. You'll also need to solder a wire from the series link near the 2-pin end of your pickup cable. The end that plugs into your neck volume. That wire will go to the push-pull switch. Here's a diagram from EMG for the HZ series pickups and their cables. Does your pickup cable have a black and white wire connected together near the 2-pin end like we see in this drawing?
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 23:03:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. We are progressing, I did a "discovery" in the meantime too. To answer your last question, whether I have a B&W cable at the two pin end, yes I have it. That was the "discovery" I mentioned. The EMG tech. said in his email 'connect the B&W end to the middle lug of your push/pull". What he did not say was that this B&W end was hidden inside the two pin end under a shrink tube. I found it after some head scratching when the "light came on" in my head. I thought "where the heck do the other wires disappear from the five we have at the pickup end"? I started feeling the two pin end with my fingers and indeed, there was a little bulge under the shrink tube. I opened up the tube with a sharp blade and found the B&W cables mated together. I got as far as soldering an extension wire to the B&W bundle then wrapped some tape around to keep things together.
Now I know what B&W cable the EMG tech referred to. The rest is still foggy. I have a capacitor of the rating you mentioned.
Best, AIK
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 20, 2017 23:08:07 GMT -5
One thing that is really foggy. If the extension I soldered to the B&W cable at the two pin end will go to the push/pull, that will replace the original tone pot, then what will happen to wire #8 that presently goes from the neck volume to the neck tone pot? I suppose that will be omitted, right?
Best, AIK
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 20, 2017 23:29:06 GMT -5
We'll use the #8 cable and cut the connector off the end that went to your solderless tone pot. Then you'll strip the wires and solder in the locations I indicate in my next drawing. (probably tomorrow)
If you ever decide to go back to stock you can by a new cable from EMG for about $6.
BTW, I would guess you want normal HB when the knob is down and Split when the knob is pulled up, right?
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 21, 2017 0:01:52 GMT -5
Thanks so much. Understand that you need some sleep too, so to continue tomorrow is as good as gold....... Yes, you have interpreted my thoughts correctly on the down and up position of the push/pull pot. Although I am not picky either way it seems somewhat logical to have the split introduced when the shaft is pulled up. Thanks again, AIK
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 21, 2017 1:00:20 GMT -5
I grabbed and image from a pdf at EMG as a starting point. I drew the push-pull upside down, the same way it will look when it's mounted in the control cavity of your guitar. White won't show up on a white background so I used Gray to represent the white wire from cable #8 The Blue is whatever wire you've already connected to the Black/White series link at the 2-pin end of the pickup cable. This is very straightforward, but wait until another Nutz member proofreads it to be sure I have it right.
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 21, 2017 12:01:36 GMT -5
Thanks Sir, your help has been truly appreciated. This is exactly the kind of help I was seeking and I am very happy that I have found it on this forum. Very gentlemanly and foolproof for someone like me who can design and build a traditional pipe organ for a concert hall but cannot get his head around the finer things in guitar wiring.
I wait a little bit to see if any other folks comment on your diagram then will report back here with the results.
Many thanks again, Antal
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
Likes: 0
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 21, 2017 16:06:51 GMT -5
Since there were no other inputs and I was eager to proceed I completed the wiring as indicated in reTrEaD's diagram. Well, success. Absolutely lovely change in tone when the push/pull is lifted to single coil mode. Many thanks again for the in depth help. I should say that I have been lucky to 'tap into" your coil of knowledge. I know, coil tap and coil split are different, just that "tapping in" is more appropriate term for the help I received. Next project will be to modify my Stratocaster copy. Not right now, sometimes in the New Year. It is an Indonesian made Squier that I bought some sixteen years ago when I was having some hopes that in time I would become an old copy of Jimi Hendrix. That goal has been withdrawn since then, I miss 99% of the talent he had........ I have already modified the guitar a couple of years after it was purchased. I took it apart and fixed the bad neck joint. I technically turned it into a set neck guitar with the use of dowels and gluing it in place. It increased the resonance of the instrument to a noticeable degree. Then I discarded the original electronics and replaced the pickups with EMG SAVs like Stevie Winwood uses in his blue Strat. However, I've got the bug to put some extra bits into it like David Gilmour has in his red Strat. Given my less than "excessive" knowledge in wiring I may show up here with another plea for help. Seems like that this forum is a very user friendly "brotherhood" of guitar tinkers. I am glad that I came here for help. Best to all, AIK
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Post by reTrEaD on Dec 22, 2017 11:26:29 GMT -5
I'm pleased to hear it worked for you, Antal. And glad you took the time to report back. Regarding your earlier thoughts: Yes, that is what bothers me. They conveniently do not make a push/pull for the passive pickups. It does not make sense to me but they have their own reasons I suppose. It would be too easy for "my kind" to split the humbucker with a quick connect system, so they make it "more interesting", a bit more challenging. After looking around on EMGs parts on their site, I noticed some peculiarities in their pricing. The pickup buss is surprisingly inexpensive. Only five bucks. The Active pots are $18 but the Passives are only $10. Not sure why. Same board layouts and the only difference is the resistance value of the pots. The active push-pull pots are rather expensive at $29 but they are quite versatile. There by plugging the cables and jumpers into various locations on the printed board you can use the pot as either a volume control or a tone control and your choice of whether the SC mode or HB mode is 'normal'. (knob down) I would imagine they could easily design a push-pull for their passive pickups with a similar strategy. Perhaps even more versatility. The choice of functions might be HB, Split, HB(coils in parallel), HB Out of Phase with the other pickup. Several jumpers would be necessary to configure what the switch does in each of its two positions and a special cable to replace the standard 5-pin to 2-pin pickup cable would be need to be included. The new cable would have 5 pins on both ends. Maybe they already have such a thing on the drawing board. Or maybe they need potential customers like you to encourage them to work on it. It's been a pleasure to chat with you.
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aikbreeze
Rookie Solder Flinger
A beginner for seventeen years with very short and clumsy fingers.
Posts: 11
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Post by aikbreeze on Dec 22, 2017 17:44:28 GMT -5
Hi again,
Yes, I checked the web site of EMG back and forth and just could not get my head around their pricing for some items. Then of course the push/pull or the lack of it for the passive humbuckers. It would make sense to offer parts for splitting. I believe it would help to increase their sales for the HZ series pickups if a quick connect setup would be offered for splitting them. It would be a convenient solution for many who are not wiring experts. Volume of sales and related profit would increase on the pickups plus they would make money on the accessories as well.
I received a mail from their tech support giving me some advice, which did not help since it only would help those who are more knowledgeable than I am. The fellow tech rep. said that he would be working on a diagram to help people like me in the future. I have checked, it is not up yet. I'll be curious to see how it will compare to the one you provided. It was easy to get the wiring done from the drawing you marked up.
Best, AIK
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