Free way switching system

[vonFrenchie]

I am going to be installing new pickups in my Randy Rhodes and I was thinking of picking up the Free Way switch off stewmac. Unfortunately it's $38 so I don't really want to buy it and start messing around with it. The main advantage of it is that it is a 6 position switch in the same size package as an LP switch. It has a standard wiring set up that allows for Bridge, b+n, neck, split bridge, sb+sn, and split neck selections.

Does anyone have any advice for a guy on this subject? Has anyone used a Free Way switch? Does anyone think a 6 position rotary or toggle switch would be a better idea? Attached is a link to the Free Way installation guide. I'm not dead set on it, it just looks too easy to pass up.

To knock out all the "add switching pots," "add mini-switches," or "just gut it and run one bridge pickup," comments here is a rundown of how the guitar is going to be:
One varitone switch (already wired)
One pickup selector switch
No potentiometers of any kind
Neck and bridge humbuckers (probably GFS Power Rails or Loudmouth)


www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/i-0055/free-waydiagrams.pdf

[JohnH]

Ive never used a freeway switch. You could get whatever settings you probably want with a 6 way 4 pole rotary, and they are quite reliable. But they are much slower to turn than flicking a toggle, or (I expect) the freeway.

An 'Aside', just despite your wish not to hear about more switches:
Having built an LP with the rotary switch controls and finding it stiff, and also not liking push-pulls, I wanted something different for my best LP. I think an LP toggle is a perfect control for a guitar, so I just use that on the front, in the usual LP position. But behind it on the back of the guitar, I have two slide switches mounted on the rear circular switch cover. These get me my other options if I want phase or series. Obviously not for use on the fly but they work fine and they don't get in the way or get bumped.

This shows it:
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/4571/humbuckers-lp-modular-wiring-design

[vonFrenchie]

That is a pretty cool idea. Specially on a guitar like an LP where you don't want to start chopping into the top. Fortunately for me my Rhodes has a top routed electronics cavity. I'm not too interested in doing phase and ser/par switching. I'm most concerned with ease of switching. Rotary switches are great because I can't change the position when I'm having a little too much fun for the guitar's liking. I don't know how solid the Free Way switch is. But for $38 the thing should be built like a tank and drive like a Ferrari. I really like that it is basically two 3-way switches.



You have a top switching section and a bottom switching section. You can switch from any one position to any other position also.

I'm just not sure about the price tag. If I can wire up a 6 way rotary switch so it runs with the positions inverted (neck, n+B, bridge, single bridge, sn+sb, single neck) I think I'd be able to get by. Then again new toys are fun.

[reTrEaD]

Hi vonFrenchie

Selector switches have all gotten more expensive recently but the price Freeway is kinda steep. Could be worse. They have an 'Ultra' version that's on the wrong side of fifty bucks. Ouch.

There haven't been many discussions about the Freeway switches but a quick way to find a few of them would be the GWTI. Then use CTRL+F on your browser and search for "freeway" then "free-way", then "6-way". The finds on 6-way will also point to titles of threads about the 6-way lever switch which don't apply to what you're doing. But I know at least one of them was about the Freeway switch.

Not saying any of that would benefit you. But it might.

[newey]

I don't know how solid the Free Way switch is. But for $38 the thing should be built like a tank and drive like a Ferrari

No personal experience with these,but you might do a google search for customer reviews (keeping in mind what internet reviews are often worth . . .) Back when we had discussion of the Freeway, someone had mentioned reliability issues having been bandied about out in webland.

[vonFrenchie]

Thanks for the advice gentlemen. I emailed them about the setup I'd like to run (they didn't have it listed in their PDF files) and if they get back to me sooner than later I'll probably jump on it. If not I'm going the 6 way rotary route. I know those things are built to last.

Now onto the second part of the problem. I want to have split coils available and possibly running both humbuckers in series. How would I wire up a 6 way 4 pole rotary to do the following?

1: Bridge single
2: Bridge humbucker
3: Neck+bridge humbucker
4: Neck+bridge series humbucker or Bridge single+neck single
5: Neck humbucker
6: Neck single

I did a search on google and on the forum but I only ever found 5 way switches or people trying to wire 6 ways in a 3 pickup configuration.
This diagram is the closest I've found to what I need but I'm still missing the second dual pickup selection.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 23, 2018 11:33:59 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

This diagram is the closest I've found to what I need but I'm still missing the second dual pickup selection.

The way that arrangement is structured, it would require a lot of changes to add the two HBs in series with each other. And four coils in series is not such a great choice, in my opinion. With only six possibilities, you might want to consider something other than that.

If you want
#3 Neck+bridge humbucker
#4 Bridge single+neck single
The structure supports that. It wouldn't be difficult to shift a few things around, using that diagram as a starting point. Just grab an image or drawing of the 6-position rotary you plan to use.

Single at the neck is always a good choice. Even though you can't get hum-canceling with one coil, the tone is nice.
But a single at the bridge isn't as useful as something else could be.

So maybe you'd be happier with something like:
1: Bridge humbucker
2: Bridge humbucker + Neck single <------- this is a nice one, imho
3: Neck+bridge humbucker
4: Bridge single+neck single
5: Neck humbucker
6: Neck single

Or do you have strong feelings about keeping the bridge single?

[JohnH]

If you are heading towards a single rotary switch design, most probably a 4 pole 6 position, then there are certain arrangements that fall easily into place and some that don't.

The most obvious and very useful selection is to say that pickups are only combined in parallel, and each pickup is either full humbucker or single coil. Electrically, two poles do the pickup selection and two do coil cutting. eg, you can have N, N+B, B where N and B are either full humbucker or single. You could have 6 positions where the first three are 'Les Paul' and the second three are 'Tele'. Order is a free choice and if you want bridge Hb plus Neck single, you can sub that for another that you don't need.

What's not easily done (I'm not going to say cant be done when reTrEaD and Yogi are watching!), is to mix up selections as above with those involving two pickups in series or phased, or coils of one pickup in parallel. We tend to run out of switch poles to achieve this.

You might be interested in one wrinkle that would work in this system though, which is to part-bypass one coil with either a cap or a resistor. This can make a split bridge humbucker maintain an edgy single-coil tone but without thinning out too much. I use it on my builds.

[vonFrenchie]

I'm starting to think the easiest way would be to add a second switch that would allow me to connect the bridge + to the neck ground so when I'm in the neck position it'll be both pickups in series. I think I'd rather have this than a neck single and bridge hum because I have two coil tap switches on my LP and I never use the bridge humbucker and neck single at the same time. The SD Jazz I have in the neck is just too loud to work in that set up. I think whatever high power pickup I end up choosing will have a similar reaction.


I would wire a DPDT switch in front of the rotary that would connect the neck ground and bridge start. I know there would probably be some dead spots with that set up. Just an easier way for me to mute the guitar then. I'd also leave out the wires on the 3rd position on the bottom deck to shorts the south bridge coil and on the 2nd from the top deck that shorts the south neck coil.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 26, 2018 14:26:41 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

I would wire a DPDT switch in front of the rotary that would connect the neck ground and bridge start. I know there would probably be some dead spots with that set up. Just an easier way for me to mute the guitar then. I'd also leave out the wires on the 3rd position on the bottom deck to shorts the south bridge coil and on the 2nd from the top deck that shorts the south neck coil.

vF, anything that leads to dead spots is something you should probably avoid. Maybe we should look at an overall strategy that gets you where you want to go without dead spots.

Here's a drawing from one of my threads in Design Modules, Guitar Wiring Design Tutorial: Strat-o-Various Project pt3:



That might be a good starting point for a design with a 4P5T or 4P6T rotary and a DPDT for series-parallel.

A few notes:

• The pot and cap were meant to take advantage of the extra tone pot on a Strat.  But they aren't necessary.  They can be omitted.
  
• "Hot" feeds the tone and volume controls (not shown)
  
• This can't do all four coils in series.  But all four in series isn't something I'd want.  If a position is designed for two HBs, the 'series' mode will become 'single' mode.  For instance, it could default to just the Bridge HB in S mode and the Bridge HB in parallel with the Neck HB in the Parallel mode.

• This structure can't do out-of-phase but I have others which can.  They aren't as flexible as this one.
  

There are many possibilities, using this basic structure.

Here's one possibility for 4P6T rotary.

S mode (wired for either series or single) / Parallel

• Neck N x Neck S / Neck N + Neck S
• Neck N / Neck N + (Bridge N x Bridge S)
  
• Neck N x Bridge S  /  Neck N + Bridge S
  
• Neck S x Bridge N  /  Neck S + Bridge N
  
• Bridge N x Bridge S / (Bridge N x Bridge S) + (Neck N x Neck S)
• Neck N x Neck S x Bridge S / (Neck N x Neck S) + Bridge S

If the HBs are oriented so that the coils are in this sequence: NSNS as we look at this from neck to bridge,

we could describe this as:

• Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
• Neck-most single / Neckmost single in series with Bridge HB
  
• Outers in series / Outers in parallel
• Inners in series / Inners in parallel
• Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
• Neck HB in series with Bridge-most single / Neck HB in parallel with Bridge-most single.

That would give you twelve tones.  (Fairly desirable choices, imho)

No duplication of any tone in another position

No dead spots.

[vonFrenchie]

I appreciate the vast array of tones available with that set up, but I don't really need this guitar to be that versatile. To give you a better frame of reference, this thing is going to be used for metal. Mostly sludge, doom, and thrash. I need some good clean tones (hence the tapped coils) and some good overdriven tones but with the amount of distortion that I will be running (JCM900) the intricacies of all these tones will most likely be lost.

My main interest in having all 4 coils in series would be how loud it will be. I want to be able to go from a good clean tone to heavy heavy chugging with the flip of a switch. I don't like running too many pedals (too much feed back and signal noise). I think the tone of the JCM is perfect for what I'm trying to do and the only OD pedals I use are an LPB-1 and an Earthquaker Acapulco Gold. I almost never use them in conjunction (they both basically do the same thing but with different sound profiles).

I sent out an email to Iron Gear inquiring about a good matched set that can handle what I want to play. I have a Jazz and JB in my LP and when I run that in the tele humbucker mode (neck single bridge hum) all I hear is the neck pickup. Do you think being able to run the neck in parallel while the bridge is in series would help this? I don't want to lose too much of the round neck tone but I also don't see the point in having 4 pickup selections that just sound like the neck pick up.

You list the following selections as a possibility.

Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
Neck-most single / Neckmost single in series with Bridge HB
Outers in series / Outers in parallel
Inners in series / Inners in parallel
Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
Neck HB in series with Bridge-most single / Neck HB in parallel with Bridge-most single.

My main problem with this is the final selection. I've found that running a bridge single with a neck bucker results in the same tone as a neck bucker alone. Would there be a way to do this:

Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
Neck single/Neck single in parallel or series w/ bridge HB
Norths series/norths parallel (I like the sound of the neckmost bridge coil waaaaaaaaaay more than the bridge most bridge coil)
Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
Neck coils in parallel + bridge HB/north bridge single

I realize that those distinct switching combinations may not be possible, but as long as all 10 of those tones are captured with some combination of two switches I think I would be happy. The tone I am least concerned with is the north bridge single. It is usually too thin for me but the pickup I am interested in from Iron Gear claims to have excellent bass response so I would at least like to try that out in the bridge.

[reTrEaD]

Feb 27, 2018 14:29:10 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

Would there be a way to do this:

Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
Neck single/Neck single in parallel or series w/ bridge HB
Norths series/norths parallel (I like the sound of the neckmost bridge coil waaaaaaaaaay more than the bridge most bridge coil)
Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
Neck coils in parallel + bridge HB/north bridge single

I realize that those distinct switching combinations may not be possible, but as long as all 10 of those tones are captured with some combination of two switches I think I would be happy. The tone I am least concerned with is the north bridge single. It is usually too thin for me but the pickup I am interested in from Iron Gear claims to have excellent bass response so I would at least like to try that out in the bridge.

1 - Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
2 - Neck single/Neck single in parallel or series w/ bridge HB
3 - Norths series/norths parallel *
4 - Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5 - Neck coils in parallel + bridge HB/north bridge single **

* two Norths should be possible but avoided. No hum-canceling. We might look at orientation of the pickups so the desired pair have one north and one south.

** This structure isn't capable of having three parallel paths.

[vonFrenchie]

Feb 27, 2018 15:15:56 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

1 - Neck coils in series / Neck coils in parallel
2 - Neck single/Neck single in parallel or series w/ bridge HB
3 - Norths series/norths parallel *
4 - Bridge HB / Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5 - Neck coils in parallel + bridge HB/north bridge single **

* two Norths should be possible but avoided. No hum-canceling. We might look at orientation of the pickups so the desired pair have one north and one south.

** This structure isn't capable of having three parallel paths.

* would using the inner coils be a better option? I care more about using the bridge pick up coil further from the bridge than I care about which neck coil I use. I have the outers tapped on my LP and the bridge single coil is only useful for country styling (you can bet that doesn't get much use).

**what would be your suggestion be for the 5th setting?

[reTrEaD]

Feb 27, 2018 16:51:49 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

* would using the inner coils be a better option? I care more about using the bridge pick up coil further from the bridge than I care about which neck coil I use. I have the outers tapped on my LP and the bridge single coil is only useful for country styling (you can bet that doesn't get much use).

Either inners OR you could use the traditional SNNS layout where the Screw coils (south) would be described as Neckiest and Bridgiest. Then use South from the Neck and the North from the bridge. A wider gap than 'inners' and shifted toward the neck.

Your choice.
We can't probably make everything else fit around either arrangement.
Make a decision and we'll move forward.

**what would be your suggestion be for the 5th setting?

You mentioned wanting a strong dark tone like all 4 coils in series (which this structure can't do) but you don't have three coils in series in any of your combinations.

A - We could do your choice three coils in series in the 5th setting, and have that position ignore the position of the S/P switch. That would give you only 9 choices, although it sounds like that wouldn't bother you.

B - We could change the #2 position to
Neck single x Bridge HB / Neck single + Bridge HB
Then look for another pair of combinations for the fifth position.

[vonFrenchie]

Feb 27, 2018 17:41:17 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

A - We could do your choice three coils in series in the 5th setting, and have that position ignore the position of the S/P switch. That would give you only 9 choices, although it sounds like that wouldn't bother you.

B - We could change the #2 position to
Neck single x Bridge HB / Neck single + Bridge HB
Then look for another pair of combinations for the fifth position.

I like the idea of the neck x bridge and neck + bridge. My only question is if we swap that 2nd setting out with that combos would I still have a neck single setting? I use the neck single a lot for clean tones.

As for the inners vs SNNS it really doesn't matter. Rotating either pickup won't have any real tonal change while using a single coil or humbucker, right? It just reduces feedback and signal noise, correct?

[reTrEaD]

Rotating the pickup won't make much difference in tone if any at all. It's just a way we might get a North-South pair when using one coil from each pickup.

Hum-canceling might reduce feedback, depends on the mechanism. It surely does just what the name implies. It cancels (or significantly reduces) 60Hz hum and other noise such as from florescent lights, which can get into the system at the pickup.

In this case, it seems the important question is, would you rather have true 'inners' or the slightly wider gap between Neck-most coil of the Neck and the Bridge-least coil on the Bridge?

Feb 28, 2018 12:25:00 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

My only question is if we swap that 2nd setting out with that combos would I still have a neck single setting? I use the neck single a lot for clean tones.

If you use a neck single often, we need to make sure that exists somewhere.
The three maps that follow all include a neck single.


This would have a neck single paired with a fairly light but desirable tone in position 2
The heavy/dark three-coil series combination in position 5 would be selected regardless of the position of the mode switch.

1	Neck coils in series	Neck coils in parallel
2	Neck single	Neck single in parallel w/ bridge HB
3	Inners Series	Inners Parallel
4	Bridge HB	Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB

This one give the neck single a priority as it now appears regardless of the position of the mode switch.

1	Neck coils in series	Neck coils in parallel
2	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB	Neck single in parallel w/ bridge HB
3	Inners Series	Inners Parallel
4	Bridge HB	Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5	Neck single	Neck single

This pairs the Neck single with a light tone the other two didn't include.

1	Neck coils in series	Neck coils in parallel
2	Neck single	Neck single in parallel w/ bridge HB
3	Inners Series	Inners Parallel
4	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB	Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5	Neck single	Outers Parallel

Of the three, I'd lean toward the last one, since it adds an additional choice.
And I'd probably shuffle the rows.
But that's my personal preference.
The object here is to get what YOU prefer.

[vonFrenchie]

Feb 28, 2018 15:13:41 GMT -5 reTrEaD said:

This would have a neck single paired with a fairly light but desirable tone in position 2
The heavy/dark three-coil series combination in position 5 would be selected regardless of the position of the mode switch.

1	Neck coils in series	Neck coils in parallel
2	Neck single	Neck single in parallel w/ bridge HB
3	Inners Series	Inners Parallel
4	Bridge HB	Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB

I think this selection would be best for me. I know I'll need to use the bridge hb, neck hb, and neck single. I also like how 5 is super doom crush mode regardless. The neck single being paired with the parallel option is a good touch. It'll allow me to go from nice clean tones to a reasonably heavy and still dark tone.

I think that the inners would be the best option for me. I'd prefer double north but if I can't get decent hum cancelling from that then it's just a pipe dream. I can't stand the sound of the bridge most coil by itself. It's like nails to a chalk board in my mind.

Since this is now a 5 position set up is it possible to use a Super Switch or should I stick to a rotary?

[reTrEaD]

The choice of rotary vs superswitch is entirely up to you.

Rotary only requires a round hole with enough route behind it to accommodate the switch body.
Can be a bit less convenient to operate.
But you might mitigate the difficulty somewhat if you can find a knob with a handle on it like this:

Mounting a superswitch is a bit more involved but makes for very convenient use.


The drawings will for the circuit will look different depending upon whether a rotary or superswitch is use.
So choosing which one you'll use is a good early step.

[vonFrenchie]

I might as well stick to rotary. I have to make a new pick guard because my old one has had too many mods done to it. Might as well keep the new one as simple and clean as possible.

[reTrEaD]

We're coming close to having this fully defined.
There are some differences in the way 4P5T rotary switches have their lugs organized.
-  If you can provide a link to the switch you plan to use, that would be good.
Else I'll just use something generic for the drawing and you can modify that to fit the switch you use.



A couple more things need to be defined.
The sequence and direction.

Looking at the guitar from the front, does this represent the sequence when the knob is rotated clockwise?

	S-Mode	Parallel Mode
1	Neck coils in series	Neck coils in parallel
2	Neck single	Neck single in parallel w/ bridge HB
3	Inners Series	Inners Parallel
4	Bridge HB	Bridge HB in parallel with Neck HB
5	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB	Neck single in Series w/ bridge HB

-  If not, list the numbered positions in the sequence you prefer, going from CCW to CW




-  What kind of DPDT will be used for the Mode switch?  mini-toggle or push-pull pot?
  if pp, which pot does it ride on, the Volume or the tone.

-  Which direction describes the position of the switch when it's in the parallel mode?

[vonFrenchie]

Looks perfect. A mini toggle will be used. No pots will be used. A varitone switch (already wired) will be used and it has a pretty simple in and out for the wiring and will be placed between the pickup switches and the output jack. Parallel mode will be up.

[reTrEaD]

k, koo

I'll probably start on the first drawing which will have the rotary switch displayed in schematic form (like the one I posted from the Stratovarious thread), tomorrow or the the next. Meanwhile, look around for the switch you'll be using so we can take the next step after that. Making a wiring diagram.

[vonFrenchie]

Here are the parts I will be using
5 way rotary switch
DPDT Switch

[blademaster2]

Feb 24, 2018 15:47:54 GMT -5 JohnH said:

If you are heading towards a single rotary switch design, most probably a 4 pole 6 position, then there are certain arrangements that fall easily into place and some that don't.

The most obvious and very useful selection is to say that pickups are only combined in parallel, and each pickup is either full humbucker or single coil. Electrically, two poles do the pickup selection and two do coil cutting. eg, you can have N, N+B, B where N and B are either full humbucker or single. You could have 6 positions where the first three are 'Les Paul' and the second three are 'Tele'. Order is a free choice and if you want bridge Hb plus Neck single, you can sub that for another that you don't need.

What's not easily done (I'm not going to say cant be done when reTrEaD and Yogi are watching!), is to mix up selections as above with those involving two pickups in series or phased, or coils of one pickup in parallel. We tend to run out of switch poles to achieve this.

You might be interested in one wrinkle that would work in this system though, which is to part-bypass one coil with either a cap or a resistor. This can make a split bridge humbucker maintain an edgy single-coil tone but without thinning out too much. I use it on my builds.

I used a 3-pole, 6-position switch years ago to achieve the following combinations with two coils:

Series
Parallel
Out of Phase (plinky tone, only useful to add to a third pickup coil)
Single coil 1
Single coil 2
Single coil 2 reverse phase

I have found all of them to be useful, especially when combined with another pickup (i.e. a third single coil or a humbucker). I posted this wiring in another thread in 2017.

[reTrEaD]

Mar 1, 2018 17:27:53 GMT -5 vonFrenchie said:

Here are the parts I will be using
5 way rotary switch
DPDT Switch

Right, so the rotary looks pretty common in layout.

SPOILER: Click to show

Shouldn't be too difficult to find a drawing for it.


Here's the schematic version.
First drawing has each position separately then all merged together as one in the lower right.

SPOILER: Click to show

This is just the merged product.

SPOILER: Click to show

[Ro_S]

I'd never heard of this Freeway switch before.  Nice thing, but too expensive for my tastes. 

[vonFrenchie]

Mar 7, 2018 2:56:46 GMT -5 Ro_S said:

too expensive for my tastes. 

You got that right. If it does exactly what I want it to do and won't break it's definitely worth it for a gigging guitar. But I've heard there are reliability issues and the company doesn't really seem to want to give me the time of day to assist with my desired wiring. Luckily Retread came to save the day.


My order from GFS finally came. I ordered from GFS and Iron Gear at the same time and Iron Gear got it to me in 4 days, GFS in 8. I didn't realize shipping from England to Wisconsin was faster than from Massachusetts to Wisconsin.

I purchased conductive paint so I am going to paint the electronics cavity tonight, start my wiring tomorrow night.

[vonFrenchie]

Okay, so I've had it wired up since Friday night. Worked out the kinks and what not. I was contemplating sending one of the pickups back because it sounded like crap. No definition and way too muddy for a bridge pickup. Then I realized my attenuator was set to a 0Db treble boost. Flipped it to the usual 6Db and it sounds amazing now! I always forget that attenuators sap those high ends.

All I have to do is cut a new electronics cover (mine has 5 too many holes) and install it. Due to work constraints that'll probably have to wait for Sunday. Then I'll upload some clips and do a full write up review of the pickups I bought. I haven't seen too much talk about Iron Gear on the forums so I figured I'd give them the love they deserve. Two pickups with hardware for less than $100 and they are BEASTLY! The Hammer Head I have in the bridge is a lot like a Duncan Invader mixed with a Dimarzio Super-D. It's AWESOME!

Thanks again for the schematic. It works perfectly. A beautiful range of tones and the all powerful crusher mode at the end is great! Quick question though, if I wired it up correctly should there be some single coil hum from the neck inner even though it's in series?