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Post by Ro_S on Mar 4, 2018 21:28:18 GMT -5
I have a question, please, about the 5-way blade switch - the standard/ordinary type, not a superswitch or megaswitch.
Is it possible to wire a 5-way lever switch in such a way that it's possible to have a selector position that would allow two of the pickups to be wired IN SERIES ?
I know this possible with a 4-way lever switch (as on a common 4-way Tele mod), but what about with a 5-way switch?
For the purpose of this question, assume the guitar may have 2 pickups and is not necessarily a Strat.
thanks
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Post by newey on Mar 4, 2018 21:41:25 GMT -5
There are two answers to your question, depending on how I resolve the ambiguity. I will assume that you mean: "Is it possible to do so using only a 5-way lever switch, with no additional switching?". If not, and added switches can be included, then there are any number of series possibilities. Assuming we're just talking a std 5-way with no additional switching, the answer is still "Yes"- but your options to do so are going to be limited. You probably won't get other combinations you might want. One such scheme is from Deaf Eddie: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3761/hb-tele-std-strat-switchWhich is for a HB-S guitar but translates equally to SSS guitars. On the 5 positions, you get: 1. Bridge and middle in series 2. Middle coil, bridge coil and neck coil shorted 3. Middle in series with (neck in parallel with bridge) 4. Bridge coil in parallel with neck (hum hint), middle coil shorted 5. Neck coil
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Post by Ro_S on Mar 4, 2018 21:48:29 GMT -5
p.s. to add, quickly, to clarify, that I meant WITHOUT relying on additional switch (such as a push-pull pot) in conjunction. newey - I'm just about to read your reply more fully. thanks
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 4, 2018 22:53:52 GMT -5
I vaguely recall an extended discussion of a strategy which had all three pickups in series and used a standard fender 5-way to shunt pickups resulting in all-3 pickups in series, two or three flavors of 2-pickups in series, and one or two positions being just one pickup. But that seems like a lifetime ago and I can't seem to find it. Not that it really matters. The selections didn't fall in anything resembling a logical pattern. And there were no parallel combinations. Last fall, I started working on a no-cost series addition for a Strat. Turning a 1v-2t Strat into a 1v-1t configuration frees up a pot and half of the 5-way selector. I came up with two similar strategies. Adding the Bridge in series with the Neck in position 5 or both 4 and five. Then using the spare pot to gradually shunt the Bridge pickup, position 5 (or positions 4 and 5) became 'normal'. ie: Neck only in position 5 and Neck in parallel with Middle in position 4. The sister to that puts the Neck in series with the Bridge in the 1 and 2 positions. Then Yogi put the icing on the cake. He came up with a brilliant plan to achieve both, without any rewiring to change between the two sister strategies. Zero Bux Series Addition to SSS Strat
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Post by Ro_S on Mar 5, 2018 19:05:44 GMT -5
newey reTrEaD Thanks both for your suggestions. I'm still digesting them. Re: the one newey posted, I'm having difficulty fully understanding the descriptors used for each switching position. Perhaps I could rephrase them in my own words and then someone could review it to see whether I have understood correctly?
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Post by newey on Mar 5, 2018 23:18:06 GMT -5
Sure. Or I could clarify my response . . . Position 1 gives you Middle And Bridge pickups in series. You wanted series combos on a regular 5-way switch, here one is. We abbreviate this as "M x B". (It will be exactly the same as B x M, order in series doesn't matter) Position 2 gives you the middle pickup alone, with the other two pickups shorted (good for noise reduction) Position 3 gives you the middle pickup, in series with the parallel combination of neck and bridge. We would abbreviate this as "M x (N + B)". Another series combination, albeit mixed with a parallel combo. All three coils will be operative. It will not tend to be as "muddy" as all three coils in series, but will be a bit "beefier" than all three coils in parallel. Many folks like these series/parallel combos for that reason. Position 4 will give you the bridge in parallel with the neck. We abbreviate this as "N + B". It will be more or less Tele-ish, depending upon your pickups. In ChrisK's original post on this, he notes "hum hint" since most Strat SSS type guitars will have the middle pickup reverse-wound, reverse polarity (RWRP), meaning that the neck and bridge will be the same polarity/winding, and thus will not be hum cancelling. However, with this set-up, if you swapped the RWRP pickup to the bridge position, then positions 1 and 4 will be hum-cancelling, and position 3 will be partially hum-cancelling. Only the single coil positions would not be hum-cancelling. If you were to use the std. Start layout with the middle pickup RWRP, then position 1 will be hum-cancelling, and position 3 will be partially hum-cancelling. Positions 2,4 and 5 will not. So you can maximize hum-cancelling by relocating the RWRP pickup (usually the mid pickup, unless you ordered some sort of custom pickup set.). Ideally, relocate it to the bridge position. Position 5 gives you the neck alone. Fire away with any other questions . . .
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Post by Ro_S on Mar 5, 2018 23:43:38 GMT -5
newey - many thanks for that. I understand all that fine now. A few questions, please: 1. Re: Position 3 - I've not encountered that series/parallel thing involving 3 pickups before. It seems unusual? Getting the different tonality of the three different pickups locations sounds interesting? The total output of this setting would be slightly more than a single pickup, correct? 2. In the instances when a setting has a pickup or two "shorted" is that different to the standard normal Start wiring? 3. This configuration doesn't have settings to allow BOTH bridge and neck alone. Is there any way around that but still involving at least one series position? thanks
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Post by newey on Mar 6, 2018 7:12:49 GMT -5
I'll go in reverse order:
Well, I suppose you could use this scheme and physically swap the positions of the bridge and middle pickups. Then you'd have:
1)B X M 2)B alone 3)B X (M + N) 4)M + N 5)N alone.
There is no way with this scheme (or any other I can envision) to have the B and N at positions 1 and 5 on the switch and still have a series wiring, so the order will remain funky. With the above scenario, you'd also lose the N + B setting.
2
It is different but probably not meaningfully so. In a regular Strat, unused pickups are simply disconnected at the "hot" end, as opposed to being shorted to themselves. But there should be no audible difference between the two.
It's not unusual "around these parts". We have many schemes that do parallel/series combos. Whether they sound "interesting" or not is a matter of one's subjective personal preferences. I built a Strat (with 4 single coils) that offers some of these combos, and I like the sounds. But YMMV. Yes, the output will be a bit higher than a single coil
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Post by reTrEaD on Mar 6, 2018 7:29:24 GMT -5
EDIT: I see Newey and I came to much the same conclusion. And it's obvious I type much more slowly. 1. Re: Position 3 - I've not encountered that series/parallel thing involving 3 pickups before. It seems unusual? Getting the different tonality of the three different pickups locations sounds interesting? The total output of this setting would be slightly more than a single pickup, correct? Unusual compared to stock wiring. Custom wiring often has things like this. The output from positions 1 and 3 will be noticeably greater than a single pickup or a parallel pair. It's best to avoid having a pickup 'hanging from hot' or shorting it, when possible. Since a stock SSS Strat provided only single pickups or parallel pairs, the unused pickups have one end connected to ground (not hot) so it's not necessary or desirable to shunt an unused pickup. It's also not possible to achieve more interesting combinations. I've been down similar paths before and often they are blind alleys. Because of the unique nature of the stock 5-way (bridging of contacts in positions 2 and 4) it's capable of doing things other 2-pole selectors can't. That added capability also creates limitations on what can appear in adjacent positions. I'd suggest making a list of the exact combinations this circuit provides. If you do so, you'll notice the Neck appears as a single in position 5 The middle appears as a single in position 2 If you attempt to provide the Bridge as a single by castrating other combinations, there won't be much of anything interesting left. However if you exchange the Bridge and Middle in the entire scheme, that would give you 5 - Neck single 4 - 3 - 2 - Bridge single 1 - I think you can (and should) invest the time in filling in the other three blanks. If that is something that suits you, then done. thanks
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Post by Ro_S on Mar 7, 2018 2:33:37 GMT -5
newey reTrEaD - Thanks again for you replies. Re: the scheme newey posted - I think it has pros and cons. I think the best use I have for this would probably be for a guitar with two pickups, with a bridge humbucker and single coil neck pickup. For a SSS configuration. I like the idea of reversing the bridge and middle pickups with this scheme. I'll certainly keep it in mind. I have a number of guitar mod projects on the go and in mind, so I could well have an application for it. Re: the scheme of reTrEaD which he linked - I like this. Its functionality reminds in some ways of a SSS mod JohnH has posted on this forum where the middle pickup can act as a series blend when the 5-way blade switch goes into a secondary mode - but that requires a push-pull or toggle switch. I really like both schemes. thanks
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