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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 17, 2019 4:54:58 GMT -5
This is a combination of Series, some added parallel connections, a bypass switch (Volume and tone) and a variable cap layout. Quite a few sounds are achievable, but it is a bit complex to do. I needed the multimeter to keep me on the straight and narrow. I found a schematic of a series circuit which gave N*M and B*M and then wondered if that could be integrated with a neck-on switch to get all the 7 parallel connections in addition to the 2 series connections Since there are some pickup ground side wires on the 5 way selector, the trick was to have the neck-on switch active only when the series switch was off. I achieved this using a 3PDT switch coupled to a SPDT. The active side is on the opposite side to 'on' side of the series. The first drawing of the core ideas was this. (and no, I've never seen a 5-way switch that looked like that, but it works for the illustration). The black lines are for the typical 5 combinations and adding the N*M and B*M series combos, the idea I found. The yellow and blue lines represent adding the N+B and N+B+M paralllel combos  At that point I realized I might need some way to control the large tonal differences between series and parallel and that some version of a 'blower' switch might be in order to 'unload' the series combinations which might be useful for when taking a lead in a song (higher volume and brighter sound) since I was using A250K pots. In actuality the switch can operate on any pickup combination so it could get pretty ice picky if used on, say, a bridge PU by itself. (not the intent I had in mind, so mainly useful for series mode in practice) I also am a fan of multiple caps, and given the wide range of pickup combinations I could get better control using a 6 way rotary connected to a standard tone control. I like to use small cap values and have .0012uF, .0022, .0033, .0047, .0068, .01uf, so a lot less high is bled than the typical .022 or .047 which tend to mud the sound. I used a only one pole side, and on the other side bundled the 6 caps together to a single return to ground, ignoring the 2nd pole altogether.  The completed drawing looked like this (detail on the next post)  The exterior view on the pickguard is clean and orderly  |
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Post by newey on Apr 17, 2019 6:24:31 GMT -5
Your diagram is nicely drawn, but I doubt anyone could use it to actually wire their own version, as the detail of the switching and the rotary is too small. If you have a schematic, that would be helpful, or perhaps you could do a detail drawing of just the switch wiring, like an inset?
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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 17, 2019 12:13:38 GMT -5
Yeah kinda small.... thanks for that here is an enhancement  |
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Post by Carlos Sanz on Apr 21, 2019 8:19:46 GMT -5
Your idea is very good. Series and parallel are the most opposite sounds you can get and it's quite nice to have such a palette of tones in one only guitar. When I designed my series/parallel modification, the capacitor selector was one of the ideas I considered. If you want to expand even more your sounds and you want to spend a little bit more of money, consider the "eleven easy sounds mod": guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8447/parallel-series-stratocaster-easy-soundsYou could use it with your capacitor rotary selector. |
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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 22, 2019 3:30:19 GMT -5
Hi Carlos, that's a nice circuit you've designed. I can see why it took some time to figure out. I'd like to try that sometime. I have a super switch already, so would just need to get a 4PDT, plus a 1M antilog pot (to follow your PTB scheme).
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Post by Carlos Sanz on Apr 22, 2019 9:28:03 GMT -5
If you like the rotary switch for capacitors, I'd rather try that instead of the 1M-ohm potentiomenter. The low frequencies cut is not anything flashing. Something has to be put there, but if you have room, the rotary switch will give you more versatility.
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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 22, 2019 14:37:51 GMT -5
What I'd really want is two 6-way rotary switches, one for adjusting treble, the other for bass. Because of space considerations it may be best to omit the pots, and instead put these rotaries in the existing pickguard holes. One of the 6 positions could be a bypass, and the other 5 (each) actually wired to caps to control tone. In practice I've found tone pots to be pretty much 'on-off' anyway, so omitting the pots and rotating through the switches would give as much tonal control anyway, so this could be a reasonable measure even if a bit unconventional. This is not a completely new idea (of course). Here is one man's version of it. double-varitone and it seems to have merit. I'm not seeing his wiring, but it would seem to follow my description above. |
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Post by Carlos Sanz on Apr 23, 2019 16:26:40 GMT -5
Your idea is very interesting. I fell the bass cut pot working like an on/off (even being a 1M-Ohm reverse audio potentiomenter, according to Leo's design).
The (more usual) high frequencies cut tone control is more suitable in my opinion. Nonetheless, I've found that I prefer logaritmic (audio) tone controls (as well as volume controls). The general rule of the thumb is to use a logarithmic pot for Volume and a linear pot for Tone. But for me, it works better with logarithmic. Maybe you want to try.
On the other side, what knobs do you use for your rotaries? I had thought of a varitone as an option, but later I realize that I would be able to use it if I didn't put a chicken-head knob. And I could't stand the image of my Strat with such a knob.
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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 23, 2019 17:49:08 GMT -5
I use log pots for volume and tone but even then find the A250K tone pot has an "on-off" feel which is annoying -- meaning I can't fine tune the signal. I'm guessing the tone change comes toward the end of the taper. I notice tonestyler mentions using 25kΩ audio-taper pot for live playing.... www.stellartone.com/Page.asp?NavID=558I use the standard Strat type knobs actually. I am not against the chicken head and think it would be easier to know at a glance which cap is engaged. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Apr 23, 2019 23:41:24 GMT -5
I've found that I prefer logaritmic (audio) tone controls (as well as volume controls). The general rule of the thumb is to use a logarithmic pot for Volume and a linear pot for Tone. But for me, it works better with logarithmic. , I'm glad to hear you've tried using audio taper pots for (treble-cut) tone controls. The reason you find that better than the 'rule of thumb' is because that rule of thumb is absolute nonsense. Probably started by some idiot on the internet and unfortunately misinformation is hard to kill once it gets started. To the best of my knowledge, none of the major manufacturers use linear pots for tone controls. For certain Fender doesn't, Gibson doesn't, Ibanez doesn't. In fact, a d-taper (similar to audio taper but more rapid change at the clockwise end and slower change at the counter-clockwise end) would yield even better results for the tone control. Fender uses audio taper throughout. Gibson occasionally uses linear for volume controls in 2V2T arrangements. For some reason, Ibanez uses linear for volume on most of their guitars, even in 1V1T configurations. |
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Post by Carlos Sanz on Apr 24, 2019 10:57:35 GMT -5
Be careful. It must be a no-load potentiometer in this case. I had never thought of this option but it seems quite suitable for your needs. When the 25kΩ is fully open, the “no-load” feature makes it to be absent of the circuit. When you slightly turn it, the first effect you get is as if the normal 250K would be already turned almost down. But now you have all the rest of the pot path to finely adjust. It may be a good idea. Your idea of different capacitors seems quite intelligent too. |
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Post by Carlos Sanz on Apr 24, 2019 11:01:22 GMT -5
I'm glad to see that I'm not alone  Thanks for your reassertion |
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Post by ssstonelover on Apr 25, 2019 0:50:23 GMT -5
Carlos, the 25K pot is not a no-load design, or rather I should say that feature is not mentioned in their literature. Interesting idea, but without some testing I can only speculate it could be a promising approach to the issue.
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Post by Deleted on May 10, 2019 9:04:19 GMT -5
This is a combination of Series, some added parallel connections, a bypass switch (Volume and tone) and a variable cap layout. Quite a few sounds are achievable, but it is a bit complex to do. I needed the multimeter to keep me on the straight and narrow. I found a schematic of a series circuit which gave N*M and B*M and then wondered if that could be integrated with a neck-on switch to get all the 7 parallel connections in addition to the 2 series connections Since there are some pickup ground side wires on the 5 way selector, the trick was to have the neck-on switch active only when the series switch was off. I achieved this using a 3PDT switch coupled to a SPDT. The active side is on the opposite side to 'on' side of the series. The first drawing of the core ideas was this. (and no, I've never seen a 5-way switch that looked like that, but it works for the illustration)  Been mainly looking at this IMAGE, along with the Caps.. ![]()  Used a Hex Switch to use LESS Caps and give you a extra value also replaces the SPDT and i hope i got this Right (some times i rush in and need to check things) changed the 3PDT for a DPDT could have it on a Push Pull Switch .. no need for Extra holes Could use the N*M/B*M on Tone POT and the Bypass one on the Volume POT Hex switch takes the place at the bottom (where second Tone Pot would of been) |
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Post by ssstonelover on Jun 21, 2019 5:35:58 GMT -5
Sorry for the delay in answering, I was out of the country. Yes it may be possible to move 2 of the switches into push-pull pots by reordering some of the wiring. Kind of late at night, but this should be right Hex switching I'm not familiar with, sorry, but it sounds intriguing. You have resources you can point me to so I can get up to speed on that?  |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2019 8:51:49 GMT -5
 HEX Switching Basically its 4x1P2T Switches linked uk.rs-online.com/web/p/rotary-switches/6553235/As Capacitors sum up with placed along side each other, this makes it great for a Hexadecimal Switch. 4 Bit being 4x1P2T switch (on/off) means you got 16 Combinations, with 0 being No Switch on. So if you put the lowest value you want on the Tone Controls, example someone said they liked 6n8F and we put that from the POT to Ground (Bypassing the Switch) then like 10nF, so on the First Switch (Bit1) we put a 3n3F. So when this First Switch (bit1) is turned on, it adds to the already 6n8F and becomes 10n1F. This can be carried on for 3 other capacitors. The other thing I do (because i only need 3Bits) the Fourth Switch i make it, so it cuts the POT Value (Note i like to have 250K linked to 250K, making it up to 500K Pot) so the fourth switch then links to the middle, therefor bypassing the second Pot and bring it back down to 250K. ---------------------------------------------------------- LOL i will relook at this circuit because been some time and i cant remember what i did to get to this NB.. These Switches i am also using on INDUCTIONS (Pickups) .. ONE SWITCH with 4x1P2T (on/Off) makes a good Selection Switch, but not as SMOOTH to move as a Knife/Blade Switch. ++++++++++WARNING with enough Switches and HOLES i will go CRAZY, so if you only want bits, do say so and try and chop things out -- i can go a bit .. mm RAVEN RABBIT 
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Post by ssstonelover on Jun 25, 2019 0:14:06 GMT -5
I can see it could be useful to have a hexadecimal switch. Thanks for explaining more about the theory and application. For the pickup switching your schematic seems to be the 'double wafer' 5-way 'super switch' so, yes, that gives a lot of pickup combination possibilities when combined with another selector switch (S1, DPDT, etc). Nice. For my last build I was just using up parts I had at home. Certainly if I used a super switch and a hexadecimal switch, I could open more possibilities, and very possibly it may be simpler to control the functions at the same time. On the same subject of DIY circuit building, I think some of the guitar orientated switch companies have been following what the DIY crowd is doing as some of the new stock switches are pretty interesting (and don't require all the wiring and extra switches we use). Maybe they want to put us out of business! Here is one example (of 8 just for the Strat alone if you consider one tone and 2 tone pot variations) from Free-Way.  |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jun 25, 2019 10:27:47 GMT -5
On the same subject of DIY circuit building, I think some of the guitar orientated switch companies have been following what the DIY crowd is doing as some of the new stock switches are pretty interesting (and don't require all the wiring and extra switches we use). Maybe they want o put us out of business! I have a slightly different point of view on that. I see them as providing other choices for the DiY (and small shop) market. Personally, I prefer the greater flexibility of something like a 4P5T selector and one or more DPDTs (or 4PDTs), but having choices is a good thing. I haven't looked into what Freeway is doing with their 10-way variant on the Fender 5-way, but I expect I'll be mildly disappointed. Their 6-way Ultra replacement for the Gibson 3-way toggle falls woefully short of what it could have been. Still, if it fills the needs for some folks and makes the implementation more simple, those are valid choices. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2019 11:12:37 GMT -5
Before i made my own boards to replace the S-Type Switch I would CUT tracks to make a Serial Switching  |
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Post by ssstonelover on Sept 9, 2023 22:14:56 GMT -5
I was revisiting this subject today after some years, and came up with alternative ways to wire this basic layout. Mainly I am thinking the 4PDT on-on-on switch is a useful simplification (single switch rather than 2) and with no disengagement of functions that the 2 switch scheme created. I also took the opportunity to simply the core of the drawing, omitting all the add-on features found in the prior versions for the sake of clarity.  |
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Post by ssstonelover on Sept 10, 2023 15:32:00 GMT -5
Someone (elsewhere) was not happy with the pickup order I used on the drawing, though it simplified drawing the wires, also that the color contrasts were hard to see in some spots plus the image has some fuzziness (jpg issue). I've reworked it to address those issues and added a little more text/explanation too.  |
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