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Post by straylight on Jun 29, 2019 16:35:12 GMT -5
I have an LPJ in for some custom hardware and custom pickups. Step one is as always having a look at waht we're dealing with.
Pickups have plastic EMG style covers, small brass backplates and nickel plated slugs in both bobbins and are alleged symmetrical. Cost cutting is evident and potting is begining to fail if they ever were. They will be repotted and returned to client.
Gibson 498T A5 Magnet
Calculated Inductance: 9.19 H Calculated Capacitance: 299 pF Loaded Cutoff: 2228 Hz Loaded Resonant Peak: 1413 Hz -55.7 dB Raw Loaded Peak: 1940 Hz 8.45 dB Unloaded Cutoff: 3728 Hz" Unloaded Resonant Peak: 2318 Hz -54.4 dB Raw Unloaded Peak: 2940 Hz 14.3 dB Raw Induction Peak: 525 Hz 3.4 dB DC Resistance: 14.28kOhm
Gibson 498T Black Green
Calculated Inductance: 3.85 H
Calculated Capacitance: 339 pF
Loaded Cutoff: 3803 Hz
Loaded Resonant Peak: 2509 Hz -60.2 dB
Raw Loaded Peak: 2940 Hz 8.47 dB
Unloaded Cutoff: 5325 Hz
Unloaded Resonant Peak: 3655 Hz -60.1 dB
Raw Unloaded Peak: 4283 Hz 11.9 dB Raw Induction Peak: 811 Hz 3.26 dB DC Resistance: 7.17 kOhm
Gibson 498T Red White Calculated Inductance: 4 H
Calculated Capacitance: 418 pF
Loaded Cutoff: 3513 Hz"
Loaded Resonant Peak: 2318 Hz -60.3 dB
Raw Loaded Peak: 2663 Hz 7.61 dB
Unloaded Cutoff: 5018 Hz
Unloaded Resonant Peak: 3444 Hz -59.3 dB
Raw Unloaded Peak: 3803 Hz 11.9 dB
Raw Induction Peak: 796 Hz 2.87 dB
 
And some comparisons to other bridge pickups in my collection
Output is disappointingly low for such a low cutoff frequency, this appears to be a really quite inefficient pickup. A5 magnet is weak, and the result is a pickup thats not as loud as advertised and gets lost in the mix, speaking with a low growl. Sound is dark and muffled, client is having issues cutting through mix. I'm not a fan and won't be spending much time on it as it's not particularly useful. I note the capacitance is very high so I assume it's wound to a very tight pattern.
490R is still in progress.
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Post by straylight on Jun 30, 2019 10:04:39 GMT -5
Gibson 490R Calculated Inductance: 5.08 Calculated Capacitance: 130 pF Loaded Cutoff: 3583 Hz Loaded Resonant Peak: 2412 Hz -58 dB Raw Loaded Peak: 2998 Hz 10.7 dB Unloaded Cutoff: 7026 Hz Unloaded Resonant Peak: 5651 Hz -56.5 dB Raw Unloaded Peak: 5764 Hz 18.7 dB Raw Induction Peak: 706 Hz 5.07 dB DC Resistance: 7.92kOhm
Gibson 490R Black Green Calculated Inductance: 2.12 H Calculated Capacitance: 124 pF Loaded Cutoff: 5651 Hz Loaded Resonant Peak: 4199 Hz -63.8 dB Raw Loaded Peak: 4636 Hz 9.06 dB Unloaded Cutoff: 10035 Hz Unloaded Resonant Peak: 8565 Hz -65.6 dB Raw Unloaded Peak: 9089 Hz 13.3 dB Raw Induction Peak: 1092 Hz 3.87 dB DC Resistance: 3.93kOhm 
Gibson 490R Red White Calculated Inductance: 2.21 H Calculated Capacitance: 186 pF Loaded Cutoff: 5220 Hz Loaded Resonant Peak: 3803 Hz -63.9 dB Raw Loaded Peak: 4368 Hz 8.4 dB Unloaded Cutoff: 8736 Hz Unloaded Resonant Peak: 6621 Hz -64.9 dB Raw Unloaded Peak: 7456 Hz 12.6 dB Raw Induction Peak: 1071 Hz 3.63 dB DC Resistance: 4.0kOhm
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Post by straylight on Jun 30, 2019 10:22:52 GMT -5
The 490R is a fairly standard sounding alnico II neck humbucker. It's the sound one expects from a gibson. the Ibanez V7 nails it perfectly. The Dimarzio Super2 is incredibly similar, just louder. Given this is just a measure of electrical efficiency and the Super2 has an ovesize ceramic magnet, significantly so. There's really not a lot to say, this really is the sound one associates with a Gibson paf-style pickup, but made on a shoestring.
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Post by straylight on Jun 30, 2019 10:34:16 GMT -5
Here's the pickups as a pair. 
What I don't get is how there's so much chatter on the net claiming the 498T is bright with lots of treble. Is this because gibson says "slightly hotter with emphasis on mid-ranges and highs" and the " 498T offers a bright, cutting tones" and domehow doing that with 300k pots? Does nobody in the gibson marketing department have ears? Do gibson customers not have ears? |
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Post by straylight on Jun 30, 2019 10:49:26 GMT -5
Style: 498T
Winds/Coil: 6900 / 6900
Material of Wire (gauge) Copper (43)
Alnico V
Qfactor: 4.07
ResistanceDC 13980 Ohms
Resonant Frequency: 2012.49 Hz
Style: 498T Winds/Coil: 6900 / 6900 Alnico II
ResistanceDC: 8.5k
The latter looks a lot like the DC resistanc of a 490T, I wonder if gibson and or customers are getting the 490T(mildly overwound PAF voice) and 498T(very overwound, dark) confused. It would explain a lot.
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Post by antigua on Jul 2, 2019 16:49:06 GMT -5
[object Object]dsadsadas What I don't get is how there's so much chatter on the net claiming the 498T is bright with lots of treble. Is this because gibson says "slightly hotter with emphasis on mid-ranges and highs" and the " 498T offers a bright, cutting tones" and domehow doing that with 300k pots? Does nobody in the gibson marketing department have ears? Do gibson customers not have ears? Thanks for the measurements. The same thing is said about the JB, that its "too bright" despite having a loaded resonant peak at 2kHz. I think the reason is that a hard knee with 500k pots at 2kHz causes the 1kHz to 2kHz band to be overly emphasized, whereas a pickup with a higher peak, lacks that particular band emphasis. The suggest to pair them with 250k or 300k pots would make a softer knee at 2kHz, which would eliminate that emphasis and solve the perceived problem. |
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Post by straylight on Jul 6, 2019 17:18:13 GMT -5
I think, having just done preliminary meansurement on a face-melting SD Dimebucker, some of it comes down to the terminology used by sound techs and that used to discuss pickups is a bit different. What I'd think of as mids is being considerered by guitarists as "treble" with mid eq on audio eqipment being typically around 2.5kHz, with parametric controls sweeping between maybe 500hZ and 5k. As such the resonant spike on guitar piskups is midrange to me.
Where's the Mid control on a typical guitar amp positioned? On my bass kit (which tends to be more informative), I'm looking at a 1kHz centre frequency, sweepable way down to 100Hz (Boss ME50B) and 150hZ (1990s red-knob Fender BXR300) and up to 2.5kHz (Boss) and 4kHz (Fender) and i'm typically using these at around 800Hz to scoop out space for guitars to sing. I'm expecting a mid bell on a typical FOH mixer to be set at around 2.5kHz if it's not sweepable.
Once again I'm beginning to question everything I think i know.
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rodabod
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Post by rodabod on Jan 22, 2024 14:23:55 GMT -5
What I don't get is how there's so much chatter on the net claiming the 498T is bright with lots of treble. Is this because gibson says "slightly hotter with emphasis on mid-ranges and highs" and the " 498T offers a bright, cutting tones" and domehow doing that with 300k pots? Does nobody in the gibson marketing department have ears? Do gibson customers not have ears? Appreciate this is an old thread - I was searching for inductance values for the 498t / 490r pickups and stumbled upon this. Firstly, that’s some great analysis. What I will add is that from an actual sonic results perspective, it’s essential that these pickups are loaded with 500k pots and not 300k or any other lower value that Gibson may have fitted over the years. They sound muddy and lifeless with 300k pots. I was very surprised at the difference it makes. The 500k pots really going out the glassiness which I presume is the resonant peak. It may well be that there is more going on than simply the frequency response. The first thing that springs to my mind is the phase response - it’s understood at least with audio transformers that resonance is unwanted and that one of the side-effects is phase shift varying with frequency which affects the timbre of the sound. |
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guitardick
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Post by guitardick on Mar 24, 2024 0:43:23 GMT -5
Gents, I love the 498T. It is one of my favorite pickups. It is in my 1998 Gibson DC. Man, what a great sound, but that guitar sound so good acoustic. I think it has some chambering, which gives it this amazing, lively chunk and gunk! Even with the 300k pots, it has more treble and mids than my (3) LTD EC1000, Schecter C1+, PRS Se Custom 24, LTD Viper1000, or any other guitar I have. Really it has more of every useful frequency than any of my other guitars!
I have considered scraping off the traces on the Tone pot to MOD it with a “no load” setting when fully cranked, but I want to keep it stock. The magnet is over gaussed, I believe.
Love this pickup!
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guitardick
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Post by guitardick on Mar 24, 2024 8:18:10 GMT -5
Straylight, this is an old thread and you probably already figured all of this out, but just incase... I think that 498T pickup is defective or damaged. From reading your measurements and your theories on sound, I don’t think you need to question yourself. You rock buddy! You reported that the magnet had a low, weak charge and the output was low, right? Well that is the not what a 498T is supposed to have. As I understand it, the magnet in the 498T is supposed to be over magnetized! That is what gives it the distinctive high output and grainy sound that we love from that pickup.
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guitardick
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Post by guitardick on Mar 24, 2024 10:57:53 GMT -5
Rodabod, you mentioned that you like the 498T with 500k pots, I think I might, too. but it might be too much for some players. It would depend on the guitar and the guitarists preferences. Some guitars are more snappy and crisp that others. Like I mentioned, I think chambering the body influences the frequencies we all love from a guitar. For those that don’t know, chambering a guitar body is when the manufacturer drill holes inside the maple cap and the mahogany body woods that don’t go all the way through. Then they gluing the cap to the body wood and make a guitar body like a Les Paul with a figured top. You can’t see these holes, but they give a very subtitle semi-hollowbody effect that makes the guitar sound more lively in a great way! Absolutely my favorite sound when done right. It can make mixing a challenge in recordings, but you can always slap on a Soothe 2 plugin to tame any unruly resonances that get built up in the mix.
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guitardick
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Post by guitardick on Mar 24, 2024 11:04:53 GMT -5
Do any of you know if a copy were made that used a similar over magnetized magnet, would a tap closer to the 7.5k sound that different to the tap at 14.28k?
I have read that the DC resistance doesn’t effect as much as we are lead to believe. I would love to have two taps, if it would make one closer to the PAF and the second, just like this hot PAF, 498T. I wouldn’t mind the grainy tone of the overly gaussed magnet being applied to both TAPs. I just want it a little less hot occasionally, without turning down the volume. Would be nice if one tap was just a tad sweeter, too, when tapped at like 7.5k.
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