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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 20, 2019 13:41:40 GMT -5
Hey fellas. Glad I found this forum!! I’m looking for some help wiring a Strat in a particular way. I’ve looked through several forums, but I’m still unable to find exactly what I’m looking for.
HARDWARE I HAVE AVAILABLE:
1 Superswitch 1 4PDT mini toggle switch 6 DPDT mini toggle switches 3 250k push pull pots 3 standard 250k pots 1 set of Fender 57/62 pups 1 .1uf capacitor
DESIRED PICK-GUARD LAYOUT:
1 Superswitch 2 Tone pots 1 Volume pot 1 Toggle switch
DESIRED PICKUP COMBINATIONS P = parallel, S = series, Ø = out of phase
4PDT SWITCH DOWN
1 Neck 2 Neck+Middle P 3 Middle 4 Middle+Bridge P 5 Bridge
4PDT SWITCH UP
1 Neck+Bridge P with ability to tale Neck Ø 2 Neck+Middle S with ability to take Middle Ø 3 Neck+Bridge S with ability to take Bridge Ø 4 Middle+Bridge S with ability to take Middle Ø 5 Bridge+Middle+Bridge P
I was thinking a 4PDT switch could act as a master tone set switch in combination with the Superswitch & 3 push pull pots could be used to take the Neck, Middle & Bridge pups out of phase in positions 1,2,3,4 when toggle is flipped up. Hope I made my descriptions understandable. Any help with making a wiring diagram would be very much appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Post by sumgai on Dec 20, 2019 20:23:35 GMT -5
moogie, Hi, and to The NutzHouse! Your idea is doable, but there will be a few changes from your wish list. You want to "take" a pup out of phase, and proceed to list them. As it happens, you need to reverse the phase only on the Middle or Bridge pups, the Neck can be left alone. Moreover, the controls for doing OoP will be available for both Up and Down on the 4PDT. I can't sit down and do a diagram just now (while at the dinner table), the wife has put the arm on my time for the rest of the night. If no one else has done anything for you when I get back tomorrow, I'll see what I can whip up. But before I go, I have to ask, what's the intended combination for Pos 5 when the 4PDT is Up? What you wrote is probably not what you intended... Please stand by....... HTH sumgai
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 21, 2019 2:32:12 GMT -5
moogie, Hi, and to The NutzHouse! Your idea is doable, but there will be a few changes from your wish list. You want to "take" a pup out of phase, and proceed to list them. As it happens, you need to reverse the phase only on the Middle or Bridge pups, the Neck can be left alone. Moreover, the controls for doing OoP will be available for both Up and Down on the 4PDT. I can't sit down and do a diagram just now (while at the dinner table), the wife has put the arm on my time for the rest of the night. If no one else has done anything for you when I get back tomorrow, I'll see what I can whip up. But before I go, I have to ask, what's the intended combination for Pos 5 when the 4PDT is Up? What you wrote is probably not what you intended... Please stand by....... HTH sumgai Oooff!! I meant Neck+Middle+Bridge in parallel in position 5 when toggle is up. Thank you very much btw!!! I should have realized the phase switching would be available in both toggle up/down... Also, if you have any recommendations on the switching order feel free to change what I originally posted. I thought having it setup like a standard Strat in toggle position down would make sense so its familiar, then when flipped up all the bonus tones would come into play.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 6:17:01 GMT -5
just about to nip out .. sounds like my type of thing (but i got to remember to stay within my Limits of what i have) When designing i tend to go a bit crazy and you need to pull me back (keep me within the RULES) {my mind tends to get a bit over driven}
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 21, 2019 11:01:47 GMT -5
So, thinking it over again... Would it be possible to have the option of having the bridge & Neck combos out of phase too? I would think at that point instead of 1 push pull for the Middle pup, the Neck or Bridge pot would have to be a push pull too? So to refresh (and slightly update the order of combos) I’d like something like this:
Toggle Down: Standard parallel SSS Strat tones + phase options
1 N 2 N+M (option for out of phase) 3 M 4 M+B (option for out of phase) 5 B
Toggle Up: Bonus tones
1 N+B parallel (option for out of phase) 2 N+M+B parallel (option for out of phase) 3 N+M series (option for out of phase) 4 M+B series (option for out of phase) 5 N+B series (option for out of phase)
2 tone pots and 1 master volume
Thanks for all the help fellas. Cheers!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 13:26:46 GMT -5
to get N+M+B will need a 4P5T swtich
1 N 2 N+M (option for out of phase) 3 M 4 M+B (option for out of phase) 5 B
Normally M is out of Phase
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 21, 2019 14:32:38 GMT -5
to get N+M+B will need a 4P5T swtich 1 N 2 N+M (option for out of phase) 3 M 4 M+B (option for out of phase) 5 B Normally M is out of Phase Oh... I thought thats what a Superswitch is? I have one.... I guess then I’d like the option to have the M in phase if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2019 15:44:29 GMT -5
it is what you call a Super Switch 4 Poles 5 Throws 4P5T
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 10:55:44 GMT -5
Need someone to Proof Read the Switching (because its easy to get lost on a complex thing) Hope its N,N+M, M, M+B,B and the 4P2T Switch should change it to N+B, N+M+B, N2M, M2B, N2B Black line is the OUTPUT, so Neck is always hooked up and just play around with its other end to bring it in to play. Also where you want these 2 TONE pots to on to just got a Master Volume at the moment. Im using 3x2P2T Push Pull for the Phase 4P5T for the Selection 4P2T for the Switching between Standard and N+B, N+M+B, N2M, M2B and N2B >I HOPE this is RIGHT, because string them all together you tend to go a bit blind< 100nF cap for the TONE!! only seen that on a Bass guitar so far
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 22, 2019 11:36:16 GMT -5
Need someone to Proof Read the Switching (because its easy to get lost on a complex thing) Hope its N,N+M, M, M+B,B and the 4P2T Switch should change it to N+B, N+M+B, N2M, M2B, N2B Black line is the OUTPUT, so Neck is always hooked up and just play around with its other end to bring it in to play. Also where you want these 2 TONE pots to on to just got a Master Volume at the moment. Im using 3x2P2T Push Pull for the Phase 4P5T for the Selection 4P2T for the Switching between Standard and N+B, N+M+B, N2M, M2B and N2B >I HOPE this is RIGHT, because string them all together you tend to go a bit blind< 100nF cap for the TONE!! only seen that on a Bass guitar so far Thank you for all the work/help dude!! Tone knobs for Neck & Middle preferred. As for the cap, I’ve seen quite a few vintage Strats with the .1uf caps in them. Easy to swap it out though if it doesn't sound good.
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 22, 2019 11:48:45 GMT -5
Minus the output jack & wiring. Does this look like the correct hardware?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 12:13:00 GMT -5
looks about Right, using a Push Pull for the Tones and the Volume to have Coil Flipping/Phasing for each pickup when you want
i think you got a dear way of doing it .. buying from Electronics companies than Guitar is a lot cheaper even direct from China if you dont mind the wait.
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 22, 2019 12:23:13 GMT -5
looks about Right, using a Push Pull for the Tones and the Volume to have Coil Flipping/Phasing for each pickup when you want i think you got a dear way of doing it .. buying from Electronics companies than Guitar is a lot cheaper even direct from China if you dont mind the wait. I definitely hear ya about purchasing from those sources. Fender gave me a bunch of hardware as payment for a corporate gig I did back in October at Sweetwater. Also got the push pulls at employee cost from Sweetwater. I used to work there in the guitar gallery, so I kind of have a few sources for good deals.... Funny thing is I’m a professional keyboardist, but I do play some guitar. I’ll wait to see if your circuit is confirmed to be working before I turn on the iron. Thank you again!! This forum is great!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 13:18:14 GMT -5
as far as i can see, the NECK Tone comes in to play on 1 and 2 3 Middle comes in the Play so both ends are the SAME of the Neck Tone so VOID 4 Goes to to the Output so again Both ends of the Neck Tone are the SAME and VOID 5 it should leave the Neck Tone HANGING one end and there for no come in to play 'void' Now when its all linked up mode 1 and 2 Neck Tone comes in to play 3 Neck Tone hooks around to the the Neck Pickup and then on to the Middle 4 as Middle is on the Output both ends of the Neck Tone should be the SAME and VOID 5 as at No3 it comes around the Neck Pickup
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 22, 2019 14:04:46 GMT -5
I’m sorry, but I’m having trouble understanding what you just said. Are you saying its not possible to have tone knobs for the Neck & Middle?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2019 16:12:17 GMT -5
No they are there, just get someone to check it all out if Possible. because its easy to miss some thing .. i dont work off pre-designed drawings .. each time i do it all over again Neck Tone Black leading to Dark Green that Leads to Light Green then on to Dark Green/Pink/Dark Gray depending on the Switching Middle Tone Dark Gray to Dark Green Ground hmm i think that should of gone to Mid Green really 1) Neck + Tone 2) Neck + Tone + Middle + Tone 3) Middle + Tone 4) Bridge + Middle + Tone 5) Bridge 1) Neck + Tone + Bridge 2) Neck + Tone + Middle + Tone + Bridge 3) Neck (Tone) 2 Middle (Tone) ... That might be a bit strange the Two Tones will be Summing up the Pots 0-500K and lowering the Caps to 50nF [1/((1/100)+(1/100))] but also will be broken in the middle .. Pickup (Cap+Res) + Pickup (Cap+Res) 4) Middle (Tone) 2 Bridge ... This Tone will be around the Middle only, effecting the Pickup just like a single Pickup would do 5) Neck (Tone) 2 Bridge ... As above Think this is Better, for the Tone Pots to go around the Neck/Middle Pickups
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 22, 2019 20:49:26 GMT -5
Would you bu chance have any recommendations on this position to make it not so strange? “ 3) Neck (Tone) 2 Middle (Tone) ... That might be a bit strange the Two Tones will be Summing up the Pots 0-500K and lowering the Caps to 50nF [1/((1/100)+(1/100))] but also will be broken in the middle .. Pickup (Cap+Res) + Pickup (Cap+Res)”?
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Post by newey on Dec 22, 2019 23:24:54 GMT -5
AB-
Looking at your original schematic (before you added in the V and T controls), and so far, so good- but let's get another set of eyes on it, this is a complex diagram.
But you lose me adding in the tone controls, I can't quite wrap my mind around wiring them as potentiometers and not as rheostats.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 3:20:15 GMT -5
the idea of the Neck TONE is that it only comes active when the Pickups Ground comes Active that would mean ALSO that when N2M and N2B it would be around the N bit ONLY it is possible to add a kinda switch inside the Pot (but that is CUTTING and Pulling apart bits) or could lose one COIL FLIP/Phase The Middle Tone is attached to Both ends of the Middle Pickup this too means that when N2M will be from the Mid-way point to Ground And M2B will be from Output to Mid-way point, not Tone but more Effecting the Pickup ---- I will change the drawing so the Coil Flips/Phase is out, as they are basic things and the Volume out, also basic .. and try and move things so we can all follow it! i know im getting lost NOTE maybe errors as if you pull one line it make FLIP UP
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 10:35:55 GMT -5
Debating...
One design for the POT is to cut the END of the Pots TRACK meaning 10 would be OFF
----
Another Double up the Tone so you got Two Pots in one (ie you can control both) freeing up a HOLE this Free hole can have a ON/OFF for the Tone Pots that Lead to Ground. NOTE : could have NO Tone, Neck Tone, Middle Tone and Neck+Middle Tone turned on with a 2P4T Rotary switch could even use a 2P6T and have two points to change the Tones Capacitor 100nF 47nF 33nF 22nF 15nF or 10nF or 250K/500K
BUT.. This would mean I'd have to steal one Push/Pull switching from the Coil Flip/Phase, what isnt a big deal as you only need 2 to change to make it work.
---
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 23, 2019 11:34:04 GMT -5
My brain is starting to hurt lol.... I should have taken basic electronics classes instead of Jazz theory... Beggars cant be choosers, but if there is some way to have the revised switching I mentioned after my initial post (which is what you have been building) with the tone pots working like normal (not halfed, or dead zones?) that would be awesome. I am willing to swap hardware or add additional toggles ect ect... In a recent private message, you did say its all there. I just wish I could understand more whats being explained. I should sit down & read about guitar circuits so I can grasp things a little more. Again, I appreciate everything you’re doing to help me out!!!
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 23, 2019 11:51:10 GMT -5
Debating... One design for the POT is to cut the END of the Pots TRACK meaning 10 would be OFF ---- Another Double up the Tone so you got Two Pots in one (ie you can control both) freeing up a HOLE this Free hole can have a ON/OFF for the Tone Pots that Lead to Ground. NOTE : could have NO Tone, Neck Tone, Middle Tone and Neck+Middle Tone turned on with a 2P4T Rotary switch could even use a 2P6T and have two points to change the Tones Capacitor 100nF 47nF 33nF 22nF 15nF or 10nF or 250K/500K BUT.. This would mean I'd have to steal one Push/Pull switching from the Coil Flip/Phase, what isnt a big deal as you only need 2 to change to make it work. --- I could open up the pot and cut the carbon track if thats what you recommend. I’m also open to the rotary idea. Whatever design you think works the most elegantly is fine with me. I would like to not have the 2 tone pots combining in some positions where you mentioned they would if possible.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 23, 2019 13:48:34 GMT -5
i am very strange in my ways towards electronics, Tone Talka link i just started to ask WHY have two Tone Pots, when a POT and Switch will do so much more there is HEX switching and you can change it to 56nF, 22nF and 15nF to give you a MAX of 93nF 10% Question! what is your DREAM Tone Controls then we Haggle to see what we can cut and put in
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 23, 2019 16:20:50 GMT -5
i am very strange in my ways towards electronics, Tone Talka link i just started to ask WHY have two Tone Pots, when a POT and Switch will do so much more there is HEX switching and you can change it to 56nF, 22nF and 15nF to give you a MAX of 93nF 10% Question! what is your DREAM Tone Controls then we Haggle to see what we can cut and put in My dream tone controls for this specific guitar is to have them behave like regular tone controls on a vintage Strat (Neck & Middle only). As for pup combinations my dream is what has currently been diagramed already. I don't think I would use different cap values changed with a switch to be honest. Was looking to basically have all those pup combos mentioned with standard strat tone control options. I really hope I’m not frustrating you with all this mess.
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Post by newey on Dec 23, 2019 20:21:14 GMT -5
Not at all. 'Bunny is just suggesting some options, but if you want standard Strat-style tone controls, that's doable, although allowances must be made for the series settings, as we have been discussing. But we're making progress, give the process here some time to marinate. Step 1 is a schematic of the electronics. AB has drawn one, I traced it out and it looks OK to me, but as we've said, this is a pretty complex switching set-up, so let's get someone else to verify it as well (if you get the impression I'm unsure of myself on this, you'd be right . . .). We don't want to send you off to solder up a faulty scheme, after all. If that happened, you wouldn't like us much. Step 2 is translating AB's schematic into a wiring diagram that you can use to wire up your guitar. If the schematic checks out, we will then verify the diagram against the schematic. Bear with us, things slow down a bit around the holidays.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 24, 2019 3:26:52 GMT -5
I will go Crazy with Designs and go off at the wrong angle a lot of the times.. just need to be brought back to earth to try and fix it As it stands every thing seems to be normal (Note you do know when Neck and Middle Tone are Both active they Fight with each other, its basically a filter) The problems start (and we will look to fix them, dont stress .. try and kick them out in design stage than in making) This is why i was looking at a Master Tone .. anyway we will keep tossing it about and see if ANYONE can fix it. Because its a POT, We have a 2nd Wafer.... WHAT IF .. just turn off a MASTER Tone when Bridge is On SOLO! ---- YAMAHA do a Master Tone, with a Master Tone i can Turn it off when dont want it.. It would mean even with NxM, NxB and MxB you could have a Tone Control But i can also do that with the Cutting of Tracks, but that would only mean it would stop the Tone Controls from ------ CRAZY IDEA 2nd Wafer PCB Etch to be a 1P2T switch, one side is 1-9 and 10 will be the other Throw. Pole will be the ARM moving This is installed on Both Neck/Middle Tone. So you put the NECK to MAX 10 (note a bit below still brings in the 250K so the stone pot still works) but it flips the MIDDLE Tone pot to Automatic GROUND Left to Neck/Middles Grounding Point, Middle to Cap, Right to Ground Neck Wafer Controls the Middle Tone, and Middle Wafer controls the Neck Tone Thus when the Neck is on 10 (True 10) and N+M and MxB Middle Tone Pot works [ONLY].. To Ground And when the Middle is at 10 (True 10) and N+M, NxB, NxM Neck Tone Pot works [ONLY].. To Ground This will not effect the Value of the Pot, as we are on the bit that just finishes after the Value. ---------------------------- Can we try and Move things around a bit N, N+M, M, M+B and B N+B, N+M+B, MxB, NxM and NxB N+B, N+M+B, MxB, NxB and NxM Just to see if can do any thing different hmm tried to change things around to see if i can Free up a POLE but i couldnt myself.. so if i had 5P2T.. there is a Rotary Switch that does 6P2T i think there are 6P2T Toggle !! would mean could ADD the OTHER POLE to the Neck Tone, Tie it to Ground when it changes so the Neck becomes ALWAYS on
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 25, 2019 7:01:56 GMT -5
I’m in no hurry here fellas. I appreciate all the help. My grandmother was put into hospice care yesterday & its been stressful on my family & I. I’ll monitor the updates going on in this thread & reply back if any questions are asked of me. Looking forward to a getting my Strat wired up once everything is completed.... Merry Christmas!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2019 10:13:37 GMT -5
Thanks its best to PUSH Design faults out .. we aint MicroSoft or Apple after all ;D as I've been thinking all Christmas Eve and Day.. Now if i Ain't made too many ERRORS in moving things around. I wanted to free up a Pole to change it for the NECK Tone, so for the second part of the Switching it becomes a MASTER First one without Coil Flipping/Phasing and the second one to Try and make it a bit more Simple It means that for N+B and NxB you have a Neck Master Tone but also means for N+M+B and MxB you have Neck and Middle Tone There also will be NxM you have a Neck Master Tone plus you have the Middle Tone Effecting around the Middle Pickup. Think maybe a bit better if every thing works. Gotta say i think I do like a MASTER Tone than Two Tone controls Fighting with each other But we keep within the Rules of the Game If this one works think best i can do.. 6P2T switch (there are toggle if you can find them at a good price as the ones ive googled are at OMG NO F WAY price) could give you a NICE Master(Neck) Tone for N+B, N+M+B, NxB, NxM and MxB and turn off the Middle. so for Perfection on what you want, 6P2T Vs Dual Pot Edited Wafer (that means taking apart and putting back together, THEORY!)
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Post by moogerfoogers on Dec 27, 2019 12:29:19 GMT -5
Question: Would having a single tone controlling both Neck & Middle & no tone for Bridge make things work any easier? I’d much prefer tones function like normal than combining. Thank you again for the help.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2019 15:43:25 GMT -5
id have to pull it apart again to try to see.. NOTE Pin 4 on the 4P2T switch should be going to the RED Track.. Right Colour .. Wrong end point
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