HSH wiring mod to HH/SSS

[phy7ajw]

Hi guys, my first post on this forum, so please be gentle!

I recently modded my HSS guitar to HSH. I then thought it would be better if I could switch between Les Paul and Strat style pickup selections, basically switching between HH and SSS.

When I started out, I looked on the net to see if anyone had posted a schematic of how to do it but I couldn't find one (although probably I didn't look hard enough!). So that prompted me to figure out how to do it and write a small guide in case anyone else should find this useful. Please, check it out at frosty.dbsclan.co.uk

It's my first effort at a web site. Let me know what you think

Andy

[UnklMickey]

phy7ajw said:

Hi guys, my first post on this forum, so please be gentle!...

hey, we wouldn't have it any other way.


Andy, welcome to GN2!


i think that's an interesting concept, changing gears on switching mentalities.

making use of the original switch is a big plus on the cost side of things.

i doubt that the fast-crowd portion of our members will be drawn to something as limited as this. but i think you will find some folks that are.

if you're up for a little criticism, you mentioned having 3 single coil pickups in "strat mode". to be perfectly accurate, that duckbucker is really a single sized humbucker, as is the Lil'59. since the duckbucker is wound relatively "cool", it sounds quite similar to a single coil.

quoting from your page:

"With SW2 in the single-coil position, the upper two poles of SW2 perform the coil-tap on the two humbuckers, shorting half of each humbucker to ground. Now we have three single-coils!"

if you're gonna hang around these parts, you might find it easier to change the terminology to "coil-split", than to endure a semantics lecture from Chesh. lol

also, if you're interested, you don't have to short the lower coils of the HBs when you do the coil-tap err, i mean coil-split. you can bypass them. connect the poles of the appropriate sections of SW₂ to ground, and the throws to the GNs for HB mode, and to the RD/WEs for single coil mode.

but all that stuff is just minor finesse. you have a nice page and some good-looking photos and drawings.



unk

[phy7ajw]

Thanks for the feedback unk. Yes, I like your suggestion about the way SW2 does the coil-splits that's much more elegant.

Yes, the Duckbucker happens to be a humbucker but in this application it is treated as a single-coil type and has a 2-wire connection. If I went around referring to the SCN pickups on my Strat as stacked humbuckers life would just be too hard! I didn't really want to confuse the issue that this is really a mod aimed at HSH guitars and getting a smooth transition through the most common range of pickup selections.

I think that was actually my biggest problem when I wrote this, knowing where to pitch it technically - do you assume everyone reading it knows all about pickups, or try to simplify and generalise a bit? I tried to go for the latter approach as (and this is probably the case with this forum) if people know their way around pickups then all they really need is the idea and the schematic. That said, if you assume people have little knowledge then you take on the huge task of teaching them - I copped out of that and put in a few pointers to GuitarNuts to start them off instead!

It just seemed to me to be the most obvious way to want to switch a HSH. As soon as I tried the HSH config I didn't like the harsh steps between humbuckers and singles and felt I needed to do something about it. How might I go about publicising it a bit more? I'd very much like it if others were to get some joy out of my effort!

Thanks for checking it out

[UnklMickey]

phy7ajw said:

... if you assume people have little knowledge then you take on the huge task of teaching them - I copped out of that and put in a few pointers to GuitarNuts to start them off instead!...

yeah, i did notice that. i think there's a ton of sites and pages on the web that point to John Atchley's site.


how to get more visibility for your page?

i really don't know anything about reciprocity / mutual link sort of things, so i'll leave that advice to someone else.


unk

[sumgai]

Andy,

to the forums!

Nice site, good strategy. How to publicize? "If you build it, they will come!" Word of mouth will do the trick. As unk just said, John's original GuitarNuts site was aimed at a small pool of people, and look at how much it's grown since then! It's even old enough (in internet time) to have spawned offspring! ;D (*cough, cough*)

One possible suggestion, though: when you link off site to some additional information, like the wiki page, or even here, you should consider the use of "<a... target="_blank"> in your anchor tag. This will open a new browser window or tab, thus leaving the viewer sitting on your site in the "old" window/tab. Why? Well, he or she can then lay both windows side by side, and go back and forth to look at both pieces of information in order to compare them, and to solidify that information in their own minds. It's just like as if you're reading a technical book, and you see a reference to an encyclopedia article.... you don't shut the tech book entirely, you lay it down side by side the the enc. article, and compare what you're reading between the two, right? (Hint: it's what I'm doing right now, as I write this reply. This forum opens a new window/tab whenever you click a link.)

And FWIW, your shielding job looks pretty good, from this angle anyways. ;D

I predict some great things to come in the near future.



-- unklmickey,

Here's an ideal candidate for that 8 pole Megaswitch you were pondering in the other thread!


sumgai

[phy7ajw]

Ah, yes, good call on the open-in-a-new-window technique. Like I say, I'm new to html and I was wondering how to do that as I was flicking through the links myself. Nice one, will do.

As for the 8-pole Megaswitch, yes, I read that thread with interest, thinking back to when I worked out the logic behind this mod and wondering whether I had enough poles! Surely you'd need a jazz hollowbody to fit that thing in!?

[sumgai]

Andy,

....
As for the 8-pole Megaswitch, yes, I read that thread with interest, thinking back to when I worked out the logic behind this mod and wondering whether I had enough poles! Surely you'd need a jazz hollowbody to fit that thing in!?

Naw, it should fit. After all, some guys, myself included, have jacked a whole 'nother 5-way switch in between the normal one and the volume/tone pots, so I *think* there's enough room.

Besides, you don't suppose, do you, that the designer would purposely shoot hisself in the foot, knowing where the thing was bound to be mounted for 95% of all it's sales?


sumgai

[TooManyWires]

sumgai said:

After all, some guys, myself included, have jacked a whole 'nother 5-way switch in between the normal one and the volume/tone pots.

You run a 'double barrel' set-up? (With 2 5-way switches?)

[Runewalker]

sumgai said:

phy7ajw,

-- unklmickey,

Here's an ideal candidate for that 8 pole Megaswitch you were pondering in the other thread!

sumgai

8 poles SEVEN positions, pretty please.

[jhng]

I like that HH to SSS idea. You've inspired me to put together the following as variation on the theme:




Uses a four pole fiveway and a DPDT, together with two volume pots.

In SSS mode:

1 N(outer)
2 N(outer) + Middle
3 Middle
4 Middle + B(outer)
5 B(outer)

In HH mode:

1 N(humbucker)
2 N(outer) + B(outer)
3 N(humbucker) + B(humbucker)
4 N(outer) + B(inner) in series
5 B(humbucker)

Two separate volume controls for Neck and Bridge just like an LP. In SSS mode the Middle pickup is on the Neck volume control, except for position 2 where it's on the Bridge volume. In HH mode, position 4 just the Bridge volume is active.

It occurs to me writing this that a tone control placed on the pickup side of the Neck volume would also be cool as you could then isolate the Bridge pup from the tone control just like on a Strat.

Anyway, just my unsolicited tuppenny.

Hastings

[sumgai]

TMW,

After all, some guys, myself included, have jacked a whole 'nother 5-way switch in between the normal one and the volume/tone pots.

You run a 'double barrel' set-up? (With 2 5-way switches?)

Not any more, I just sold that little beauty. My new Strat has an S1, and so far, I haven't gotten up the gumption to replace or augment it, what I have works well enough for now.

But I can feel it in my bones, it's a comin'.... sure as Gawd made little green soldering irons! ;D


sumgai

[phy7ajw]

Interesting... I have an S1 Strat, but I haven't really taken to the new sounds, to be honest I've kind of written it off as a bit of a gimmick - what do you use yours for? What sort of stuff do you play?

jhng - you've made my day! I like what you've done with the two positions I'd left.

[sumgai]

Andy,

Interesting... I have an S1 Strat, but I haven't really taken to the new sounds, to be honest I've kind of written it off as a bit of a gimmick - what do you use yours for? What sort of stuff do you play?

The big problem with the Strat's S1 for the SSS combination is that the 'down' position doesn't put the N>M on Pos 2, it's on Pos 1, making direct comparisons painful. That's because the so-called "special" capacitor pops as you switch into and out of connecting it (on Pos. 2 & 4). Ditto for the M>B combo, same scenario.

So I merely removed the sad sack of a capacitor, and wired up everything like so: (I just knew I'd get caught with my knickers down one of these days - I don't have the schematic ready yet!) Ah, it surely does feel better to have me knickers up where they belong!



The included Volume and Tone circuitry is suggested only, feel free to modify to suit your tastes.
Note that the blade switch position and S1's orientation are labeled.
Note also that I didn't need one of the S1 sections. Perhaps that's a candidate for preset tone controls?

S1 up:
Standard Strat Selections

S1 down:
1 N+/B
2 N+B
3 N+M+B
4 NxB
5 Nx/B

1 and 5 have extreme honk, they are what I call "treble and bass hostile". The two are different enough that I'm still undecided if one or both should go, but I can tell you this.... since you asked, I play a lot of different types of music, but being a Seattle native, I'm especially big on covering the original Northwest Bands from the late 50's and early/mid 60's. For this, I 'need' that honk, nothing else is close to 90% of all the records from that era. Not to mention Jr. Brown has a sound that's pretty close to one of these, but I have yet to figure out which one.

I also do more than a little bit of surf guitar, that requires N+B much of the time, which also works great in country. Blues? Got that covered too, N+M+B, sounds just like Robert Cray. Useful for many Ventures-style sounds too. Has what I call "sweet quack" (yet another thread I've got to get back to, one of these days), much more emphatic than either N+M or M+B.

Expect a diagram in the next day or two, appended to this post instead of a new one.

HTH


sumgai


Edit: Changed "series" symbo in above table from ">" to "x" - Apr 8,2006.
Edit: Moved location of diagram to a new server, nothing else modified - Aug 18, 2006

[JohnH]

I just clicked onto this thread, and discovered a rich vein of original schematics! Three original circuits in two days - nice work guys. phy7ajw - great work on your web site too.

For now, Ive just got one question for Sumgai. Your circuit is as you have adapted it, without the 'special' capacitor. But what did the special cap actually do, how was it wired with the pups?

cheers

John

[sumgai]

John,

For now, Ive just got one question for Sumgai. Your circuit is as you have adapted it, without the 'special' capacitor. But what did the special cap actually do, how was it wired with the pups?

Well, that's a funny one. I know what the cap did, electrically speaking, but for the life of me, why Fender did that, I'll be hornswoggled if I ever learn why.

(I smell another schematic coming on.....)

In the nutshell, the capacitor was laid across either the Neck or Bridge pickup when it was in series with the middle. This means that you had a coil doing the ELI thing in parallel with a capacitor doing the ICE thing. That combination was then hooked up in series with the middle pickup. Uh, I'm assuming that you recall from your school days the old mnemonic, ELI the ICE man, right? I wouldn't accuse you of having forgotten, but just for the benefit of the other GuitarNuts here, a short review is in order.

In a capacitor, analysis shows that current leads voltage by 90 degrees. Since current is commonly denoted as I, and voltage is shown as E (anyone here know why E means voltage?), we put the I first, then the C, then the E. Current, capacitor, voltage. I - C - E, ICE. But what about ELI, who's he?

Coils are the exact opposite. Voltage leads current by 90 degrees, and L is the symbol for inductance. E - L - I, and we now have ELI the ICE man. Makes it all easy, right?
</lecture>

Now you see the condundrum. One the one hand, voltage is leading current, and on the other hand, it's lagging behind. Since we're talking about frequencies here, it's a toss up as to which component overrides the other, vis-a-vis roll off curves, knee points, etc. I chose not to do the math behind it all, because I have no interest in going that deep on something I don't like.

As far as my ears are concerned, the added special capacitor merely seems to emphasize the paralleled pickup, somewhat overshadowing the middle pup. Others have said they hear it differently, but all of us who have tried the puppy are in agreement on one thing - it's as useless as priest's you-know-what and nun's you-know-what-here-too.

Hope that was a sufficient answer, but I probably should make up a schematic for this. Stay tuned, buckaroos! ;D


sumgai

[JohnH]

Thanks for that. Just one further bit of info requested - what was the size of the special cap?like to do a test rig to try it out.

thanks
John

[sumgai]

John,

(Disclaimers posted below.)

Thanks for that. Just one further bit of info requested - what was the size of the special cap?like to do a test rig to try it out.

thanks
John

Ask, and ye shall receive! ;D

Here we go, the original wiring for my StratAmDlx, circa 2005. Note the wierd wiring for the tone controls. They didn't really need a mega switch if this is what they were gonna do. I personally believe they did it more to maintain the 51 year status quo, but they could have used a single tone control as the master, for all the good it did them. I mean, T2 works on 4 out of 5 positions? Wha's up wi' dat???

As you can see, the "special capacitor" is an ordinary ceramic disc, 0.003 mfd in value. Remember what I said above as you trace it out, and it'll make you scratch your head like I do mine whenever I think of this.... thing. That's what it is, an abomination, it serves no useful purpose, and has no socially redeeming value that I can see.

Chris's unit is probably just like this, but I've learned in recent years that Fender just can't leave well enough alone, and that some things change faster than Benny Hill's underwear!



Disclaimer:

This is my work of art, but it is Fender's circuitry. I am providing it for reference purposes only, but I don't feel that I am infringing on Fender's rights, as the same circuit (though certainly not the same drawing) is posted elsewhere on the web, allegedly with Fender's knowledge and permission.

Weasel words:
The lawyers are gonna make me say this anyway, so I might as well beat 'em to it. Use at your own risk. By using this circuit to construct an exact copy of Fender's proprietary work, you agree to defend and hold harmless the owner and/or operator of this forum, the author of this artwork, and all other parties associated thereto. If you do construct this circuit, and later pass it off as if it were a genuine Fender product, your mama will come and get you, and oooohh, are you gonna get it, real good, d'ya hear me?


Andy, have we strayed far enough off topic for you yet?


sumgai

[Mike Richardson]

Some of you may recall Gibson's fairly wacky M-III circuitry from the late 80's-early 90's. It was for an HSH setup. I have a bad drawing around here someplace. It's very easy to do. I had a mod version a while back, and I'll see if I can find that, as well.

[monradon]

Dumb question what does HSS and HSH stand for ??

[Mike Richardson]

HSS=Humbucker/Single/Single. HSH=Humbucker/Single/Humbucker. The first letter is the bridge pickup, and so on.

[CheshireCat]

unklmickey said:

if you're gonna hang around these parts, you might find it easier to change the terminology to "coil-split", than to endure a semantics lecture from Chesh. lol

Semantics lecture? Score one for intellectual rigor.

phy7ajw said:

Please, check it out at frosty.dbsclan.co.uk

Incidentally, those knobs on your Godin, are they rubber coated in the middle, and did they come on the Godin?

[phy7ajw]

They're chrome knobs much like Telecaster ones, plastic on the inside, a fairly easy push-fit onto the pots. They're the stock Godin ones.

[CheshireCat]

phy7ajw said:

They're chrome knobs much like Telecaster ones, plastic on the inside, a fairly easy push-fit onto the pots. They're the stock Godin ones.

Is the outer knob metal or plastic? Also, is that a rubber gasket surrounding the middle of the knob for extra traction?

[phy7ajw]

Not quite sure what you mean about the rubber gasket - on the knob or the pot shaft? Check the new link on my home page for some detailed close-ups: frosty.dbsclan.co.uk :-)

The pot shafts are metal with a nice grip pattern that fits into the plastic centre piece of the knob. The rest of the knob (all that is visible once they're on) is chrome. Around the base of the pot shaft you can see a metal washer and the fastening metal nut.

Hope that answers your question.

(I haven't done the thumbnails very well though, should have made smaller pics for that - like I said, I'm still learning the whole web thing!)