unbalanced humbucker coils

[mozz]

Questions about unbalanced humbucker coils. Just starting to wind humbuckers, paf flavor, have done a hundred or so strat coils so familiar with a lot of basics. Have been reading about mismatched coils and it's what i want to try next. Only a hundred or so less turns on 1 coils or there about. Maybe 200 ohms or whatever, nothing drastic. Question is, i have some various 42awg and i have some 42.5. What do you think about 1 coil of each gauge? I know about 5000 turns of 42 is the standard (maybe even too hot for me) but anyone have a starting point for the 42.5? Should it be slug or screw coil, more or less than 5000? Or is 42.5 even useable for a paf style wind 6000-7000-8000?

[JohnH]

Welcome back mozz, I don't know the answer but the question is interesting. Maybe its a case where you'll just have to try it a couple of ways. As a design intention, I wonder if it would be possible to get a credible mismatch for the signal pickup, while still keeping balance for hum cancelation?

[mozz]

 I've got a few 5lb partial spools full of 42.5, got from a pickup winder who damaged the spools and they had 3 or 4 ends, i got them all cleared up after a little work.

I'm going to wind a slug and screw bobbin with 42, say 5000 turns, then wind 2 more with 42.5 till they are about the same amount of fill on the bobbin, then look at the turns counter. Then measure them, then solder them up and see how they sound. Bridge will be screw coil 42, slug 42.5, neck will be the opposite.

 I have enough pedal projects currently going, but i took this old 80's "The Samick" LPC out of the case and always wanted to try something with a set of handwinds as the original pickups are long gone. It's about 95% a exact copy of a real LP and i think it may give my Gibson studios a very good run for the money.

[straylight]

Some things to keep in mind:

Dimarzio dual resonance pickups like the evolution tend to be something like 3.5H and 3.2H, from expermental analysis, this suggests the wind counts aren't quite the same, but the ratio difference between the inductances makes the pickup look like a slug and screw pickup that's wound with two identical coils.

You're looking at 1.7H and 1.85H for the screw and slug coils on a pickup that's in the PAF ballpark with identical wind counts and wire gauges, here the numbers are for an SD Jazz becasue I don't have that many vintage-ish output 4-conductor pickups with slug and slotted fillister head screws kicking around.

Air Norton looks like it's the same wind count but different wire for screws and slugs, but it's a guess as the slugs are stepped to provide an air gap. 2.88H and 3.00H

Dimarzio Blaze has 3.12H 13.8kOhm  and 3.18H 6.10kOhm coils on identical poles, and the 13.8kOhm bobbin looks very anemic. I think that's 45AWG and 43AWG ottomh. It's not particularly crazy, it's maybe simialr to an Evolution but doesn't do the crazy harmonics as well, but that might be becasue my blaze is worth more than the GIO it's in and i don't have much enthusiasm for 7 string...

My point is equal wind count slug/screw pickups are already unbalanced. They're not masisvely noisy. Dimarzio were trying to recreate the sound slug/screw pickups with all set-screw pickups.

There's some advice out there saying to wind an extra ~200 turns on the screw side of a paf to compensate for this for less noise. I say run coils with near identical inductance if you want best noise performance, and run something that looks like identical wind count on screw/slug for to do the dimarzio thing. Between 10% and 20% diference in inductance is typical. Be aware that for identical construction, inductance is approximately proportional to the square of the wind count.

I'm seeing a little seond peak on the unloaded plots at about -15db from the normalised output but it dissapears on the loaded plots. I'm not sure if that's a quirk of my driver coil arrangement as I'm fairly sure that the slightly offset pickups are a bit crazier with the gain dimed.

I think I need a pair of smaller coils over each coil and to try them in phase and antiphase to get to the bottom of this.

[ms]

It makes sense to adjust the relative number of turns for best hum rejection.  As for sonic effects, the two coils are connected in series and act as a single inductor in the useful frequency range of an electric guitar.

[ziggystardust723]

Hello Mozz,
Sorry to be late to ask,
but I'm new on this Forum.
I think you'd wound your Pickups..
But a few things to Know:
-1) in a Humbucker: No matter the 0hms for 1Bobbin & the 0ther:
- I 0wn a Keystone K500-MS (copy of a XL-500 B.Lawrence, made by William Lawrence): 12k 0hms,
- but: 1Coil = 8k
- the other Coil = 4k
- They Look the same: 2 Blade Coils,
= like a XL500 B.Lawrence..
& Sound Well, no matter at all.!
- Why 8k & 4k 0hms.?
> Because this Pickup contains something Magic:
- You can play Humbucker mode,
but if you play it on a Strat in Bridge: 12k would be to High near others SC pickups,
> So you Simply Turn down the Tone Pot (specially for this PU..),
> & the Volume of 0nly 1Coil 'goes down'(from the 4k Bobbin),
= Ex: my Favorite Sound was near 10k.
> & if you Turn more: at '0', ther's only the 8k Bobbin in Action,
= for SC mode..
('MS' is for 'MultiSound'..)
- 2) an 0ther thing to know:
> Neck & Bridge pus are not at the same Places:
- So Bridge pu Needs more Presence, because just near the Polepieces where the Vibration Strings Stops.!
> & the 0pposite for Neck position where is more near the 12th Fret:
= Where the Vibration Strings is Maxi
= so this position Needs Less Presence > With a Thinner Wire than in Bridge, at the Same Time..
(like we can Find on Tellies from '53
= When L.7ender though to Change the Bridge'wire for an Awg42 bigger to Match with the Presence, & the Neck pu Staying in Awg43.. to 0ur days)
- So Many Brands Sell a lot of Bridge pickups strong & Stronger, but look at the kind of their Wires:
= from Awg43 (near 6,9 0hms/Meter),
to Awg45 (near 9,75 0hms/Meter)..
= More 0hms: of course..
> Maybe the Neck pu stays in Awg42* in this time (* near 5,47 0hms/Meter)
= more & More problems for Presence of Sounds..
- Don't forget it, never..
> Here's the begining of the 'Secret of Good Sound'..
> Try it..
- Bye, Ziggy.

[pablogilberto]

Hi straylight

Do you mean that for best hum-cancelling coils, the inductance is a priority rather than the number of winds?

For the same number of winds, which will result to a higher inductance? the slug or screws? why is this?

thanks