Quieting the Beast and the trouble it brings..help

[hondro1025]

Hi guys. I just signed up here. I studied and read the Quieting the Beast article. I am actually doing the mod on two srats. One is for a friend, the one I am working on now. I initially shielded the cavity and guard with copper foil tape from stewmac. Brand new electronics kit too...from stewmac. Texas Specials are the pickups of choice. I wired it up as the instructions said with the exception of the wire going to the output jack. I used the insulated wire from the kit. I am getting incredible hum from this thing. It cancels slightly in the 2 and 4 positions. The only solution seems to be when I walk out of the room where all my equipment is. The hum changes as I move the axe around.
Now my apartment does have old wiring so the ground is questionable. Is the mod supposed to combat this problem? I thought about shielding the pickup covers and connecting them to the shield of the guard. I'm a bit worried about doing it though until I get some feedback on it. If anyone can help me I would be sooooo happy. Thanks.

[eljib]

My place has got bad grounding, too, so I know that QTB can't overcome that. My understanding of how it works is that the sheilding acts as a collection point for RF and runs it straight to ground so it doesn't get put into your signal. If you haven't got a properly wired house then you've got nowhere to send your captured interference. Still, I don't have the problem of hum changing intensity as I move around the house(although I did before QTB) so there are some things you should try checking:

-Does the hum decrease as you touch the strings? : Reverse the +&- leads at the output jack
-Did you only connect the sheild of your insulated StuMac wire at both sides? : You should have it connected to ground on only one side.
-Have you tested it on different amps in different parts of the house, or on the other side of town yet? : You should try it just to have a control for your scientific investigation as to why you get hum at your house.
-Are you playing next to a computer or is there a dimmer switch in the room? : That might explain the change in intensity as you move around.

If all else fails just toss out those crappy pickups ;D

Seriously though, someone here knows the answer.

Welcome aboard, and good luck!

-Aaron

EDIT: It just occurred to me that you should veify that the shielding on cavity and guard are connecting properly, and that you connected the ground wire from the trem springs (or bridge) to the shield.

[hondro1025]

I do have a pc in the room that has caused problems in the past. If I touch the strings or any metal part for that matter, nothing happens. I like that. I was a bit of a goof and did have the amp in the distortion channel when I tested it out. So, clean channel in the other room and it's free of hum. I hear the texas specials are pretty noisy due to their hot output. If I aim the guitar near the outlets in the room, the hum gets worse. I also plugged my dearmond 12string into the amp. It has really cheesy single coils....they hum too. So I think the guitar is probably right. My new problem I discovered is the tone controls... THEY'RE CUTTING OUT THE SIGNAL WHEN I ROLL THEM BACK!!!!!! ever hear of that?

[hondro1025]

hey, I initially shielded the jack plate cavity. That would create a nice ground loop, huh. I took the shielding out. Anyone know where I can get some of that 2 conductor shielded wire? I might dig up a busted xlr cable and use that.

[sumgai]

hondro,

OK, time to quit fooling around here, let's get down to it.

First, to these here forums!

Next, eljib (Aaron) is more or less correct in the things he gave you to check. Where you went backwards was in removing the shielding in the jack cavity - that shield does not create a ground loop in and of itself. Put it back in, it's not the source of your problems, and it can only help, given your electrically noisy environment. The only thing I'd do differently is to not run a wire from the shielding back into the main cavity and to the common ground therein. I'd just let the jack plate contact the foil as it's put back together. Like I said, in your case, every little bit will help.

If I touch the strings or any metal part for that matter, nothing happens. I like that.

Forgive me for sounding overbearing, but no, you don't like that. It means that you will continue to suffer hum no matter where you go to play. And the hi-gain channel of an amp has nothing to do with it, this is the very reason the "grounded strings" concept was dreamed up in the first place - the need to reduce hum to the smallest amount possible. In short, ground the strings, and you'll "like it" much more, trust me on this. ;D

About your tone controls, I have a couple of thoughts.

1) Did you hook up all three terminals to something? There should be one empty terminal. For reference purposes, the wiper should have the capacitor on it, (with the cap going to the switch, in a normal Strat configuration), and the remaining terminal should be going to ground. Which terminal is that? Easy. Hold the pot as if you were looking at the knob (from the front), with the terminals facing down. Turn the shaft fully CCW, and you'll "see" that the wiper arm just rotated to the left-most terminal. That's the one to ground. Leave the other end terminal unconnected, it'll be fine.

2) Did you accidentally short something out as you placed the pickguard back onto the guitar? It happens to the best of us, so don't worry. Carefully inspect for possible shorts as the thing is being buttoned up. Any left over bare wire-ends should be snipped back to their connection points. All that kind of jazz, you know what I'm talking about, I'm sure.

HTH!


sumgai

[hondro1025]

Well, wierd but I took the shielding out of the jack cavity. Wired it back up. Now the tone pots are working ok. I was using single conductor shielded wire to connect the jack. I'm going to replace that with 2 conductor shielded wire once I find the stuff. Like I said...the dearmond 12-string has single coils and they resond the same way as the texas specials do...So I'm starting to think that the problem may be the crap wiring in my apartment. The only other guitar I ever used in the room was my es335 which has humbuckers. I'm going to get an outlet tester asap and I'm going to try plugging the guitar in at a friend's house to see if it changes. I really think my outlets lack grounding because all my gear is kinda noisy. Thank you...keep me posted.

[fobits]

I'm going to replace that with 2 conductor shielded wire once I find the stuff.

Stewart-McDonald has it, but only as part of a shielding kit. You get 20" of it, along with some copper shielding, for $16. Whether it's worth it is up to you.

They also have the kind of wire that comes on humbucking pickups, with four thin wires inside, color-coded, plus shielding on the outside. I bought some of that in order to take it apart and use the wire inside as hookup wire. Even the thinnest wire at Radio Shack is very stiff and heavy for this kind of work. It could also be used to go to the output jack. Two wires could be used for hot, two for ground and you would still have the shielding on the outside.

The catch is that it's only sold in a 25-foot length for $25. For a hobby guitar modifier, that's an awful lot of wire. You could use it for all of your life and still have half of it to leave to your grandchildren.

I really think my outlets lack grounding because all my gear is kinda noisy.

I live in an older building with 2-conductor wiring, but at least the wires run inside metal conduit which is grounded. My solution was to remove the outlets, drill a small hole in the back of each box, then drive in a self-tapping screw to hold a ground wire. It's not a bad idea to remove the fuse before doing this

[eljib]

When discussing your tone pot malunctions, I cast my vote for sumgai's option #2. I had the same problem when I finished a fairly complex mod and there was little precious room inside the cavity. While testing the guitar for the first time I noticed the tone pot working as a master volume. Then a few weeks later it was normal, then another week or so and it was bad again. I think that one of the leads of the cap was touching the shielding and a little wiggling would change it one way or the other. I imagine that your problem will return sometime in the future. Check your wiring again when your ready to replace the strings.

[Mini-Strat_Maine]

I got a 3-foot length of "22 AWG Silver-Plated Copper Stranded Inner Electronics Guitar Wire With Silver-Plated Copper Braid Shield" from Monte Allums at Superior Sound Designs, www.monteallums.com/index.html. Click on "Pickguard Shields" on the left side of his main page for the wire and other stuff.
The package of it that I got from another supplier turned out to be the Allparts GW_0809-000, which was about as Fobits described: a mile or so of it, coiled up. (Okay, 25 feet, actually.)

[hondro1025]

yep....the cap was in fact touching the shield. Fixed. Now let's attack this string ground problem. I used ring connectors for the bridge ground wire. I anchored one in the pickup cavity, ran it through the body and connected the other ring to the claw screw. Even when I open up the guitar and touch any ground, I get no change in the hum. Just a very quiet click here and there. I just ordered the 22-guage 2 conductor wire and should be recieving it soon. Thanks guys.

[sumgai]

hondro,

,,,,,,
Now let's attack this string ground problem. I used ring connectors for the bridge ground wire. I anchored one in the pickup cavity, ran it through the body and connected the other ring to the claw screw. Even when I open up the guitar and touch any ground, I get no change in the hum. Just a very quiet click here and there. I just ordered the 22-guage 2 conductor wire and should be recieving it soon. Thanks guys.

How about those ground connections that you are touching inside, are you getting the same results even when you touch the one that goes to the jack? That would be absurd, the signal almost can't get out to the amp, if that connection is bad. But we're grasping at straws here, right? Check for bad solder joints on the wire that connects that point to the jack - both ends. And how's the jack itself, is it up to snuff, or is just about shot?

Have you tested elsewhere yet?


sumgai

[hondro1025]

No change in hum anywhere I touch it. I'll be swapping the output wire for shielded 2-conductor as soon as it arrives. Until then, the project will be on hold. Could I be getting Cold solder joints? I apply heat until the solder "soaks" into the connection. I'm pretty sure that's how you properly solder, right? Thanks for all your help guys. You're helping me along great.

[sumgai]

hondro,

No change in hum anywhere I touch it. I'll be swapping the output wire for shielded 2-conductor as soon as it arrives. Until then, the project will be on hold. Could I be getting Cold solder joints? I apply heat until the solder "soaks" into the connection. I'm pretty sure that's how you properly solder, right? Thanks for all your help guys. You're helping me along great.

Pretty much, yes, you want to make sure that solder has flowed into and through all the connecting parts. For a large surface such as the back of a pot, also look to see that the solder flowed out to a nice smooth edge, instead of bubbling up and leaving a bunch of brown crud that's easily brushed away. A small anount of that crud is OK, it's almost normal, but it shows that the rosin didn't setup properly, and the solder itself may not stick for very long.

A cold joint is usually indicated by several dark spots in the solder blob itself, or it may be a dull gray all over when compared to other known good joints. If you're not sure how good a joint is, wiggle things around. A poor joint will usually (but not always) break apart under duress like this.


sumgai

[hondro1025]

Well folks, I got it to work finally. It was in fact the faulty wiring in my apartment. I can't believe how quiet those texas specials are now. I got a tiny bit of noise from a dimmer and a tv. You have to really listen hard though!! Thanks for all the input.

[bam]

Actually I'm a bit late, but FYI (all of you who shared the same problem : bad apartment/home grounding), you can do a simple (if not the simplest) grounding technique which involves no electrician at all :
1. find a metal plumbing (usually below the kitchen sink).
2. hook up a wire on it. caution: the longer the wire needed, the larger the gauge should be.
3. connect that wire to your amp's ground point, or if you don't have one, to one of the amp's screws that "zaps".

-OR- if you live near the ground, get a COPPER wire and straightly, bury one end of it into the ground. Don't worry, you won't zap any of your (or your neighbours') plants.

-OR- if your building has a lightning shield, hook that wire onto it. caution : only do this on a bright, sunny day.

[hondro1025]

Actually, I plan to replace the entire outled with a 3 prong plug. I have the radiator a I'll run the green wire from there to the chasis on the outlet. It's only temporary as I'll be ditching Boston for Los Angeles very soon.