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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 16, 2020 22:52:18 GMT -5
Are either of these diagrams correct for seymour duncan pickups?   I'm thinking of replacing my G&B's with SD's. Thanks! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 17, 2020 2:42:50 GMT -5
reTrEaDon your diagram 'below', what split/phase options does this offer? Looking for neck/screws & bridge slugs?  cheers!
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Post by newey on Jul 17, 2020 7:20:57 GMT -5
The charts marked "Seymour Duncan" show the correct wire colors for SD pickups. Not sure why the Dimarzio color chart is being included here, since you're not asking about Dimarzio pickups.
The diagram shows the neck pickup being split to the screw coil; which bridge coil is selected depends on the setting of the phase switch.
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 17, 2020 8:04:58 GMT -5
reTrEaD on your diagram 'below', what split/phase options does this offer? Looking for neck/screws & bridge slugs? cheers! This will split the Neck to the screw coil and the Bridge to the slug coil when in-phase. The Bridge will split to the screw coil when it's out-of-phase. This is only valid for Seymour Duncan color codes. I'm still not certain about G&B color codes. From you other thread it would appear you've determined that one way of successfully stacking the coils in a series arrangement is to have the Red as hot, Green and White as series link, and Black as ground. But I can't say with any certainty which coil (slug or screw) the Red is associated with and what color it's partner is (Green or White). Without that information, I would not be able to recommend a translation of the SD colors for use with your G&B pickups. |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 18, 2020 1:11:32 GMT -5
The charts marked "Seymour Duncan" show the correct wire colors for SD pickups. Not sure why the Dimarzio color chart is being included here, since you're not asking about Dimarzio pickups. The diagram shows the neck pickup being split to the screw coil; which bridge coil is selected depends on the setting of the phase switch. 1. just ignore the dimarzio part of the chart, I'm not referring to that! Only the SD part! 2. 'noted'. I want the phase to be on the neck pickup! many thanks! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 18, 2020 1:50:17 GMT -5
reTrEaD on your diagram 'below', what split/phase options does this offer? Looking for neck/screws & bridge slugs? cheers! This will split the Neck to the screw coil and the Bridge to the slug coil when in-phase. The Bridge will split to the screw coil when it's out-of-phase. This is only valid for Seymour Duncan color codes. I'm still not certain about G&B color codes. From you other thread it would appear you've determined that one way of successfully stacking the coils in a series arrangement is to have the Red as hot, Green and White as series link, and Black as ground. But I can't say with any certainty which coil (slug or screw) the Red is associated with and what color it's partner is (Green or White). Without that information, I would not be able to recommend a translation of the SD colors for use with your G&B pickups. 1. 'noted' - could you make it so that the neck is the phased pickup please? 2. With Yogi B 's "magnetic polarity of the coils test" I discovered that placing the humbuckers together face-to-face: screw-to-screw and slug-to-slug caused them to repel; whereas rotating either pickup to give slug-to-screw and screw-to-slug caused them to attract. 3. Also I get a resistance reading around '5' when I connect green and red; and also when I connect black and white. There is nothing between black/green OR red/white. Therefore green/red & white/black are paired - yes? Does that help at all? 4. I can assure you that I was not going to translate the SD colors for use with my G&B pickups, (lol). many thanks! |
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Post by newey on Jul 18, 2020 6:52:55 GMT -5
1. 'noted' - could you make it so that the neck is the phased pickup please? Yes, and you already have that diagram in your other thread, so you simply need to translate the SD colors onto the existing diagram. Yes. See my recent post in your other thread. Also note that, while the wire pairs are colored the same between your Korean PRS pickups and SD pickups, the wires are "stacked" differently, as white/red makes the series junction for the SD pickups. |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 18, 2020 8:19:58 GMT -5
1. 'noted' - could you make it so that the neck is the phased pickup please? Yes, and you already have that diagram in your other thread, so you simply need to translate the SD colors onto the existing diagram. Yes. See my recent post in your other thread. Also note that, while the wire pairs are colored the same between your Korean PRS pickups and SD pickups, the wires are "stacked" differently, as white/red makes the series junction for the SD pickups. 1. Yes I suppose I could translate the colours, but I wanted to use reTrEaD 's diagram, and NOT guitar electronics diagram. 2. Yes I believe the series link is different on the SD, that's why I'd prefer to use reTrEaD 's diagram (rather than translate from G&B to SD). Many thanks. |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 18, 2020 11:19:44 GMT -5
1. 'noted' - could you make it so that the neck is the phased pickup please? I'm hesitant to do so. It's a Royal PitA for me to create drawings. It's a long process and I prefer to not do so unless the drawing I create is likely to be used for someone's guitar. But if you would like to create a drawing using SD colors, I would be glad to proofread it for you. If you simply apply a phase switch to the end connections of the Neck pickup instead of the Bridge pickup, you should be able to figure this out, by using my diagram as a guide. Please note that the phase switch and the split switch can be on whichever pot you desire. Also, if your in-phase split is such that you have: Neck = Screw coil Bridge = Slug coil The out-of-phase split will be: Neck = Slug coil Bridge = Slug coil. Since these coils are relatively close to one another, having them out-of-phase will result in a very castrated tone. Not saying you shouldn't want this, but I personally wouldn't like it on my guitar. 2. With Yogi B 's "magnetic polarity of the coils test" I discovered that placing the humbuckers together face-to-face: screw-to-screw and slug-to-slug caused them to repel; whereas rotating either pickup to give slug-to-screw and screw-to-slug caused them to attract. This is useful information. This indicates the screw coils of both pickups have the same magnetic polarity. Likewise for the slug coils. So we would want a screw coil from one pickup and a slug coil from the other, to maintain hum-canceling (when in-phase). And two of the same (both screws or both slugs) when out-of-phase, to maintain hum-canceling. 3. Also I get a resistance reading around '5' when I connect green and red; and also when I connect black and white. There is nothing between black/green OR red/white. Therefore green/red & white/black are paired - yes? Does that help at all? That helps a LOT. There are still some unanswered questions, though. If we use your original wiring as a guide, plus the information you just provided, we can determine there are two compatible ways to 'stack' the coils. Red +
Green -
White +
Black - So we will stack one of the pickups like this: Red +
Green & White = Series link
Black - The other pickup will be stacked like this: White +
Black and Red = Series link
Green -
What we don't yet know ... Which pair is for the Screw coils? Red and Green or White and Black? Is that true for both Neck and Bridge pickups? Or is there a difference in the colors used on each of them. It seems likely they would remain consistent, between neck and bridge regarding the color pair for a particular coil. But at this point, I'd be hesitant to take anything for granted. |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 18, 2020 14:58:20 GMT -5
my latest screwdriver pull off tests:  |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 18, 2020 15:46:10 GMT -5
my latest screwdriver pull off tests: Those tests don't mean much without the information regarding which wire was connected to the hot of the scope and which wire was connected to the ground of the scope, in each of those tests. |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 18, 2020 16:43:19 GMT -5
Once you can confirm which leads went to the 'hot' lead and which to 'ground' of your scope or pc (or maybe, red and black, or tip and barrel) , then the tests look like a success since from the traces, they were all in consistent phase if wired that way
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 14:17:52 GMT -5
my latest screwdriver pull off tests: Those tests don't mean much without the information regarding which wire was connected to the hot of the scope and which wire was connected to the ground of the scope, in each of those tests. I didn't use a scope. The guitar output cable was plugged into the laptop via a behringer USB interface and the result was displayed using Audacity. See: link and present your thoughts please. many thanks! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 14:24:49 GMT -5
Once you can confirm which leads went to the 'hot' lead and which to 'ground' of your scope or pc (or maybe, red and black, or tip and barrel) , then the tests look like a success since from the traces, they were all in consistent phase if wired that way I used this wiring for those screwdriver pull off tests: (with guitar plugged into laptop using audacity):  link |
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Post by JohnH on Jul 19, 2020 15:56:26 GMT -5
Hi doc, so its right from the fully wired guitar? all good then and everything is in phase for the settings that you used. One last thing you could confirm is that when you flip the phase switch, which works on your neck pickup, the traces for the neck doing the test get flipped upside down. That's how I did my phase inversion for the diagram on the testing post.
I'm sorry I haven't tuned into this thread fully, but at this stage, what issues do you have left?
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 18:08:27 GMT -5
Hi doc, so its right from the fully wired guitar? all good then and everything is in phase for the settings that you used. One last thing you could confirm is that when you flip the phase switch, which works on your neck pickup, the traces for the neck doing the test get flipped upside down. That's how I did my phase inversion for the diagram on the testing post. I'm sorry I haven't tuned into this thread fully, but at this stage, what issues do you have left? erm! ~ no I haven't done a flip phase switch pull off test yet - sorry! My next issue is more or less the theme of the first post in this thread: I'm thinking of replacing my G&B's with SD pickups using reTrEaD 's wiring diagram, but with the neck as the reversed pickup instead of the bridge pickup; unfortunately it is too much of a PITA for him to undertake that alteration. Those last pull off tests should have been in this thread: link. But they unwittingly ended up 'here'. Whoops!  Cheers! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 20:52:10 GMT -5
1. 'noted' - could you make it so that the neck is the phased pickup please? I'm hesitant to do so. It's a Royal PitA for me to create drawings. It's a long process and I prefer to not do so unless the drawing I create is likely to be used for someone's guitar. But if you would like to create a drawing using SD colors, I would be glad to proofread it for you. Please proof read - thanks!  |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 19, 2020 21:04:04 GMT -5
reTrEaD Please proof read - thanks! looks legit to me. Splits will be: In-phase:Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Screw coil Out-of-phase:Neck - Screw coil Bridge - Screw coil |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 21:19:39 GMT -5
reTrEaD Please proof read - thanks! looks legit to me. Splits will be: In-phase:Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Screw coil Out-of-phase:Neck - Screw coil Bridge - Screw coil As yogi b said: "there is no wrong connections, most/all are right! They just produce different sounds/results!" Thank you for that verification! But I wanted to get: Neck = reverse phase pickup. In-phase: Neck - Screw coil Bridge - slug coil (not affected by phase switch) Out-of-phase: Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch) ...what have I done wrong please? |
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 19, 2020 21:43:40 GMT -5
Thank you for that verification! But I wanted to get: Neck = reverse phase pickup. In-phase: Neck - Screw coil Bridge - slug coil (not affected by phase switch) Out-of-phase: Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch) ...what have I done wrong please? To get that, you'd need to 'stack' the wiring of the Neck pickup like this: Red (+) Green and Black (series link) White (-) And 'stack' the wiring of the Bridge pickup like this: Black (+) White and Red (series link) Green (-)
Essentially just stack your Neck pickup in your new drawing the same way as the Bridge pickup is in the current drawing. And stack your Bridge pickup in your new drawing the same way as the Neck pickup is in the current drawing. |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 19, 2020 22:09:27 GMT -5
Thank you for that verification! But I wanted to get: Neck = reverse phase pickup. In-phase: Neck - Screw coil Bridge - slug coil (not affected by phase switch) Out-of-phase: Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch) ...what have I done wrong please? To get that, you'd need to 'stack' the wiring of the Neck pickup like this: Red (+) Green and Black (series link) White (-) And 'stack' the wiring of the Bridge pickup like this: Black (+) White and Red (series link) Green (-)
Essentially just stack your Neck pickup in your new drawing the same way as the Bridge pickup is in the current drawing. And stack your Bridge pickup in your new drawing the same way as the Neck pickup is in the current drawing. I'll draw that up for your approval. You might think that I'm going to a lot of trouble 'here', but I like the look of your diagram better than the guitar electronics diagram I had been using! But I can't explain why LOL! OK reTrEaD - I think this is what you meant? Neck = reverse phase pickup. In-phase: Neck - Screw coil Bridge - slug coil (not affected by phase switch) Out-of-phase: Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch)  |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 22, 2020 18:14:22 GMT -5
reTrEaDhave you got the time to approve this drawing please? many thanks!
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Post by reTrEaD on Jul 22, 2020 21:38:56 GMT -5
Yes that drawing will get you what you described, with SD pickups.
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 22, 2020 23:34:20 GMT -5
Yes that drawing will get you what you described, with SD pickups. many thanks! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Jul 28, 2020 13:17:43 GMT -5
reTrEaD said it was OK for me to post this up for the benefit of others: All good! Screwdriver tapping test 27.07.20 Both pickups:Full HB’S: all pole pieces on (24), Neck 12 poles ON/Bridge 12 poles ON. Split: Neck – Screws ON/Bridge – Slugs ON. Neck Reverse Phase – Full HB: Screws/Slugs ON /Single Coil: Slugs ON. Phase reverse is very noticeable as HB or SC. Neck Pickup:
Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON. Split: Screws ON. Reverse Phase – Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON /Single Coil: Slugs ON. Hum when split regardless of phase. Is that correct? (because there’s no other coil to cancel it?). Phase reverse is only subtle as either HB or SC. Is that correct? (because there’s only 1 pickup in use?). Bridge Pickup:Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON. Split: Slugs ON. NO Reverse Phase, (by design). Hum when split regardless of phase. Is that correct? (because there’s no other coil to cancel it?). Courtesy of Proofread by ReTrEaD: 
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Post by thedoc735 on Aug 2, 2020 3:03:25 GMT -5
reTrEaD said it was OK for me to post this up for the benefit of others: All good! Screwdriver tapping test 27.07.20 Both pickups:Full HB’S: all pole pieces on (24), Neck 12 poles ON/Bridge 12 poles ON. Split: Neck – Screws ON/Bridge – Slugs ON. Neck Reverse Phase – Full HB: Screws/Slugs ON /Single Coil: Slugs ON. Phase reverse is very noticeable as HB or SC. Neck Pickup:
Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON. Split: Screws ON. Reverse Phase – Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON /Single Coil: Slugs ON. Hum when split regardless of phase. Is that correct? (because there’s no other coil to cancel it?). Phase reverse is only subtle as either HB or SC. Is that correct? (because there’s only 1 pickup in use?). Bridge Pickup:Full HB: all 12 pole pieces ON. Split: Slugs ON. NO Reverse Phase, (by design). Hum when split regardless of phase. Is that correct? (because there’s no other coil to cancel it?). Courtesy of Proofread by ReTrEaD: ...shouldn't BOTH pickups be either: green/black OR red/white series link to maintain 'in phase' integrity? If not(?), why not? |
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Post by newey on Aug 2, 2020 6:28:24 GMT -5
The wirings will be in-phase as shown. The one pickup is wired "inside out" so that the opposite coil is selected when split, so that the split combo of both pickups will be hum-cancelling.
As shown, we have 2 "starts" wired together for one pickup, and both "finishes" wired together for the other, to make the "series link". The "hot" connections are also swapped for the 2. If we wired the series links opposite, but left the "hot" connections the same, then they would be out of phase.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 2, 2020 6:58:57 GMT -5
Its like with two coils in series, there's two engines pulling a train. Provided they are both pointing in the same direction, it doesnt matter which order they are in.
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Post by thedoc735 on Aug 3, 2020 4:50:35 GMT -5
The wirings will be in-phase as shown. The one pickup is wired "inside out" so that the opposite coil is selected when split, so that the split combo of both pickups will be hum-cancelling. As shown, we have 2 "starts" wired together for one pickup, and both "finishes" wired together for the other, to make the "series link". The "hot" connections are also swapped for the 2. If we wired the series links opposite, but left the "hot" connections the same, then they would be out of phase. Its like with two coils in series, there's two engines pulling a train. Provided they are both pointing in the same direction, it doesnt matter which order they are in. thanks for that, and I'm sure it will 'sink in' eventually - lol! |
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Post by thedoc735 on Aug 3, 2020 7:39:48 GMT -5
reTrEaD: advised to post this 'here'... ...looking for diagram integrity verification (to achieve "this")... 1. Neck = reverse phase pickup. 2. In-phase: Neck - Screw coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch by design) 3. Out-of-phase: Neck - Slug coil Bridge - Slug coil (not affected by phase switch by design)  ...I've created a pictorial diagram of the electronic components placed in their visually correct locations within the rear cavity; looking at it from the back.  ...all I did was switch over the physical positions of the mini toggle switches and reverse the black/red wires on the 3 way blade switch. Was:  Many thanks! |
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