BM wiring with extra 6 tones

[ourclarioncall]

@inventor

ah, I just read your post after I replied to yogi
—

yes, I can make a video for you once I build it

little problem , I don’t have an audio interface . Well, I have a story- I actually do have one but it doesn’t work on my computer. I hope to get another one.

what I can do is record it into my iPhone using an irig device and AmpliTube software , which is pretty good.

i can improvise in A minor doing chords and scales or I can record an Am chord and play over the top of it 

I can give a nice clean marshal plexi sound with no reverb 

I can try and keep the samples short 

I can do no words 

and I should be able to edit in iMovie and write the combination on screen so you know what sound your listening too. 

[ourclarioncall]

@inventor

i think this my first attempt at using irig and AmpliTube 

I used two iPhones, one filmed me and the other recorded the audio in AmpliTube , then I brought both videos together into iMovie.

how is the sound ? I think that is a dry clean marshal plexi setting in AmpliTube so that gives you an idea of what the next video could sound like. AmpliTube is good as I can record chords and then play over them. I can use a different app like “bias fx 2” or “ge labs” if you want more of a clean fender sound , but might not be able to have a chords and soloing together , might just be soloing

[ourclarioncall]

@inventor

ok, I will see what I can do , I will hopefully get it done within the next few weeks . I need to buy some more switches then I will wire it up and record.

im not sure how I will remember all these 100 sounds 😄😂 I will have to write it all down but might get lost haha. 

[ourclarioncall]

@inventor

here is my future dream design, it includes half out of phase and cap bypass (which I really like and have tested ) and also volume switches for each pickup and a master volume and kill switch 

I think there would be a few more than a hundred different combos here haha, but that would be a very long video 😁

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

”Oh, it's even worse than exponential growth. Being a combinatorics problem, not unexpectedly, the numbers grow factorially.

The 17 selections without phasing (or 47 with phasing) that are possible with three coils become a nice round 100 (or 572 with phasing) when you have four coils.”

from what I can remember, I think when my wife and i had our third child, we decided to stop having any more. But now we have five 😄. It might be that history repeats itself, but with single coils lol 😁 

[ourclarioncall]

Feedback appreciated on this, if it looks like it will work or not, and also if there is a better more efficient way to do it.

I found these super phase switch designs made bu Retread  who did them on request from newey. One is for parallel and the other is for series. 

i have tried to insert them into Johns/Yogis latest edition. So here we are just looking at the neck pickup going into the “series super phase switch” then into the “parallel super phase switch” then into the neck pickup on/off switch. 

ideally I would have liked one switch that put both the series and parallel cap on at the same time , and are selected or shorted (I think) via the series/parallel switch. But think this may be difficult to do, well it is for me anyway.

even if that were possible I would still need another OOP switch . I need the OOP switch mainly For a way to change from HOOP to just CAP BYPASS. Although it’s nice to have OOP too.

Anyway, sorry if this is confusing , it all makes sense in my brain as I’ve looked at it for so long it’s fresh and clear.

another option (seeing that I will still need two switches anyway) is to use something like these super phase switches.

for example , let’s say I have neck And bridge pickup on in series mode. Then I could switch the “Series super phase switch” to HOOP. But then I could set the “parallel super Phase switch“ to OOP and this would change the sound to neck and bridge in series with cap bypass.

I would never have both series and parallel caps on at the same time , just the one that relates to whichever mode I’m in (series or parallel)

The issues I can see (assuming these switches will work) are that the switch pin out is a bit weird in the middle position and maybe hard to find. And they are expensive. The alternative is to use a more common 4PDT on-on-on that has a “down/up/down/up” pinout on the middle setting. I tried in vain to convert these super phase switches over from “up/down/down/up” to “down/up/down/up” but had to admit defeat.

[JohnH]

If you wanted to use this scheme with the added ability to do half out of phase, cap bypass and other funky stuff with caps, you could add this, one extra two position dpdt, based on Yogis diagram:



When the caps are on, the series combination of 'off' pickups and 'on' pickups gets the 'off' group bypassed by a cap 47nF. This is a good effect, you get clear highs and full bass, I use it on a couple of mine. The parallel combo of 'on' and 'off gets the 'off' group fed trough a small cap, which can be used to get hoop effects and a few others. I wrote this as 4.7nF, Im less sure what is the best value for it, I think it should be small but best to experiment.

How many combos now? Well it's pretty obvious isn't it! We all know the answer but maybe if Yogi works it out then we can see if he's correct.

Yogi - thanks for your diagram, and I apologise for doodling on it here.

[Yogi B]

Aug 2, 2020 17:36:37 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

question- I think it might have been Yogi B? That mentioned John Atchley had another Version of this that included out of phase , maybe on the same switch ? I’d like to see that one

I don't know, but that wasn't me.

I’d rather have more switches/wiring etc and simpler to operate circuit than for the switching to be not so intuitive and harder on the old memory.

Earlier I was going to post a link to this thread by alexis. Which aims at getting most, if not all, of the 17 tones using only an ON/Z/ON 4PDT (or DPDT in the simpler cases) and a superswitch/megaswitch. Unfortunately the version that actually includes all 17 requires a 6P4T switch, i.e. one more position than the superswitch or megaswitch has on offer. But I agree, though the limited number of required switches is neat, the layout of the tones isn't conducive to being easily remembered.

---

Perhaps the most logical way to organise an "everything" design would be to, have two switches: one that selects the different 'structures' of combining pickups; and another to permute the pickups within those structures. That is, for three coils:

A seven position switch giving:

1. A
2. B + C
3. B × C
4. A + (B × C)
5. A × (B + C)
6. A + B + C
7. A × B × C

And a three position switch giving:

1. A = Bridge, B = Middle, C = Neck
2. A = Middle, B = Neck, C = Bridge
3. A = Neck, B = Bridge, C= Middle

However, the required switches would be something like a 4P7T and a 6P3T, and while that might be possible with the right pair of right rotary switches, three pickups would be the absolute practical limit of this kind of design.

---

There's nothing wrong with 'everything' schemes that consist of all toggles, but I believe that neither is there anything inherently wrong with ones that include a blade switches, so long as there positions are laid out intuitively.

One such place I quite like the idea of swapping out the toggle switches for a 5-way blade is for the phasing. A super/megaswitch can be wired such that it gives: all in phase; bridge OoP; Middle OoP; Bridge & Middle OoP (which is effectively Neck OoP); and a spare fifth position which could be another all in phase setting, making it the easiest to find. That's basically what the megaswitches do in this old diagram (though the pickup assignments may actually differ).

Another example I don't think is too bad, is an old idea I've dug up for getting the 17 selections that uses a superswitch to do the switching of two pickups (bridge & neck seems the obvious choice to me) and a trio of 4PDT on/on toggles to add in the remaining (middle) pickup.

More explicitly, the intended 5-way switch positions would be something like: bridge only, bridge and neck in series, middle only, bridge and neck in parallel, neck only. Then three toggle switches would be: one to add the middle in combination with the bridge; one to add the middle to the neck; and one to control whether those combinations happen in series or in parallel.

At the moment I only have a textual representation of this circuit, not a schematic, as the idea was never finalised because, although most of it would work as intended, I couldn't eliminate a tiny amount of weirdness when the 5-way was set to the "middle only" position.

---

Aug 3, 2020 13:15:39 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

I would never have both series and parallel caps on at the same time, just the one that relates to whichever mode I’m in (series or parallel)

Then I don't know why you need the option to independently choose whether each is on or off. My suggestion would be to keep the DPDT phase switch as is and have the additional switch solely in charge of selecting the capacitors, a DPDT on/on/on giving: Cap #1 in series, Cap #2 in parallel, or neither -- or some permutation of that ordering.

ideally I would have liked one switch that put both the series and parallel cap on at the same time , and are selected or shorted (I think) via the series/parallel switch. But think this may be difficult to do, well it is for me anyway.

Yeah, I agree that would be kinda neat, but I don't think that's looking likely. Adding the caps in series only within the parallel mode could work fine, but I don't see a way to add the other caps in parallel only within the series mode.

[Yogi B]

Aug 4, 2020 2:10:02 GMT -5 JohnH said:

If you wanted to use this scheme with the added ability to do half out of phase, cap bypass and other funky stuff with caps, you could add this, one extra two position dpdt

One thing this approach cannot offer is adding a cap to only one of the 'innermost' coils of a series/parallel or parallel/series grouping, i.e. (N + M*cap)*B, N*(M+cap) + B, and their ilk. So while this gets you most of the way there, individual cap switches would still be a step closer to truly everything, and I don't wish to put words in OCC's mouth (or rather, chords under fingers), but:

Bm, A, Bm | G, D/F#, G | A, G, A | Bm, Bm, A

How many combos now? Well it's pretty obvious isn't it! We all know the answer but maybe if Yogi works it out then we can see if he's correct.

Hahaha, nice try!

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

you did it again ! You guys are so inspiring , wish I had the knowledge to be able to do these things. The electrical engineering degree at university is tempting 🙂🤓

I will take time to reply properly later and take a look at the wiring 

just a quick question for now, as I was a bit confused as to how this would work

could this do two pickup combinations with a cap bypass ? Say neck and middle with the cap on either the neck or middle pickup. Or say neck and bridge half out of phase ?

if that is possible how would the switching work to get those sounds ?

it sounded like you were giving examples with three pickups, two of them being on as normal and the third pickup is off but is then put back on into the circuit via the series/parallel on-on-on, then having a cap added with the new cap switch on-on-on

it sounded like you were describing that only those pickups that are left off can be added back in with a cap via the new switch?

sorry I’m a bit slow catching on here

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

thanks for the info, insight and overview 

I will take time to properly respond later

I thought it would be pretty cool (as part of my newbie wiring education ) To become a master of the toggle switch and see if I can get all the options /dimensions . It’s been really fun and I feel like I’ve made some great leaps and bounds in my understanding thanks to the kind folks on here.

im hoping to cross the finish line and have a truly everything circuit with just toggle switches 🙂😄

we have the “everything” circuit 

then there may be the “more than everything “

then the “EVEN MORE than everything” lol

once I complete an all everything all toggle design, I would like to move onto an all 5way blade design and then an all pot design 

by then I think I would have gleaned a good bit of knowledge to be able to start mixing pots/5 way/toggles together to get some nice all everything /all components design 

[JohnH]

could this do two pickup combinations with a cap bypass ? Say neck and middle with the cap on either the neck or middle pickup. Or say neck and bridge half out of phase ?/quote]

Its true this last idea wifh caps is only for three-pickup combos. But I think it would cover a huge range of such tones. The caps would tend to suppress the pickups they affect, so the tone would be dominated by the other one or two in the main 'on' group. So its offering a lot of variations on the main tones, but maybe not quite everything on that theme.

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

ah ok. So .... I have a few questions 

What pickup is the cap applied to in a 3 pickup mixed combo like bridge*middle+neck ?

Or is not applied to a specific pickup but applied to the finished sound created by the mixed combination ? 

so in other words the cap is kind of applied to all the pickups 

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

“One thing this approach cannot offer is adding a cap to only one of the 'innermost' coils of a series/parallel or parallel/series grouping, i.e. (N + M*cap)*B, N*(M+cap) + B, and their ilk.”

>> do you mean in Johns design ? Or my idea with two switches per pickup ?

If Johns then could you explain this a bit more ? You’ll see in my reply to John my confusion over which cap the pickup or pickups are applied to 

”So while this gets you most of the way there, individual cap switches would still be a step closer to truly everything, and I don't wish to put words in OCC's mouth (or rather, chords under fingers), but:”

ah ok, you meant Johns design.

yeah, I think unless I had access to “truly Everything” I would still be looking for more ☺️

it’s a bit like doing a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle which you almost complete and get to enjoy the lovely picture , but there is 9 pieces missing from the box 🤗

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

ourclarioncall said:
I would never have both series and parallel caps on at the same time, just the one that relates to whichever mode I’m in (series or parallel)

yogi said:
Then I don't know why you need the option to independently choose whether each is on or off. My suggestion would be to keep the DPDT phase switch as is and have the additional switch solely in charge of selecting the capacitors, a DPDT on/on/on giving: Cap #1 in series, Cap #2 in parallel, or neither -- or some permutation of that ordering.
————

sorry, that was totally confusing .

i had never thought about using caps with series/parallel combos. I didn’t know you could . Can you ? And could you have both a series cap on AND a parallel cap on at the same time ? For some reason I thought that they would clash and you couldn’t have both on in the same circuit.

what I meant was if I had a parallel super phase switch and another series Super phase switch, I would and could use them both on at the same time but I thought I could not have them on both selecting the caps. 

my intention was to say have the cap setting selected on the parallel super phase switch

and have the out of phase setting selected on the series super phase switch 

The reason for selecting the later is to change the former from cap bypass to half out of phase.

vice versa, I could set the series switch to cap and the parallel to out of phase

here is a really looooong thread showing the development of my ideas and thinking as a newbie. You don’t have to read it but this is where my current idea came from and is based on

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8788/pickup-brian-half-out-phase

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

ourclarioncall:
ideally I would have liked one switch that put both the series and parallel cap on at the same time , and are selected or shorted (I think) via the series/parallel switch. But think this may be difficult to do, well it is for me anyway.

yogib said: 
Yeah, I agree that would be kinda neat, but I don't think that's looking likely. Adding the caps in series only within the parallel mode could work fine, but I don't see a way to add the other caps in parallel only within the series mode.

———
again, the idea came from the thread I mentioned, but it was quirky and only had two pickups 

[ourclarioncall]

Here was the design.

it started with the top two switches which worked together to get up/up(n+b) up/down(neck on) down /up (bridge on) and down/down (n*b)

I really liked this and good bang for your buck.

then I wanted more (what a surprise!) and added in phasing and caps. 

but this was a bit odd , as it was like having four out of phase switches and then adding two caps , bottom one for parallel , top one for series.

So basically the out of phase switch with the cap made it a HOOP switch. So I had two HOOP switches (one for neck and one for bridge for subtle differences) and two OOP switches.

so when one of the HOOP switches was selected I could also select the OOP switch at the same time to swap the phase and give me cap bypass instead of HOOP.

badically it give me the 8 things you can do with 2 single coils .

PIP (parallel in phase)
SIP (series in phase)
POP (parallel out of phase)
SOP (series out of phase)

PIPCAP (parallel in phase with cap)
SIPCAP (series in phase with cap)
POPCAP (parallel out of phase with cap)
SOPCAP (series out of phase with cap)



I realised I would prefer not to have the HOOP switches and change them to CAP BYPASS. Then if I wanted HOOP, I could just put on CAP BYPASS and the OOP switch at the same time and reverse the phase 

I then stripped it down to four switches which gives me those 8 different coil combos , so again not bad Bang for your buck . I had now double 2 switches with four sounds, to 4 switches with 9 Sounds?



but that was not enough lol. I wanted moreee. Then I got into individual and master volume switches but il stop there for the moment 

the cool thing was that with the one switch both the series and the parallel caps were on or ready to be used depending on how I set the top two switches. 

I’m sure you guys could redesign this much better , but it was me scrambling along trying to create something that I actually understood how it worked while trying to learn about circuits at the same time 🙂

[ourclarioncall]

I have come to really like 2 coils in series with the cap , and also 2 coils HOOP. 

Single coils are a bit thin for my liking and a series sound is a bit thick and dark, so the series with cap gives me a really nice combination of the clarity and brightness of a single coil but with the thick fatness of a humbucker 

so yeah, it would be hard for me to not have these sounds as they are some of my favourites

i do like single coils and plain series and parallel too. It all depends on the context, the music mix and the effects used , but for me jamming on my own the series with cap and parallel with cap or series hoop and parallel hoop are great 

[JohnH]

Aug 4, 2020 12:50:42 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

What pickup is the cap applied to in a 3 pickup mixed combo like bridge*middle+neck ?

Ok just to break that down, based on the last diagram,

Need to add some brackets to fully specify the combo. if its

B x (M+N) then there's two ways to set that up. If B is in the 'off' group and M+N are 'on' then when this newest switch is engaged, B is bypassed by the 47nF cap. This lets very clear quacky treble from M+N to come through more strongly than before, like that of a simple M+N combo, but with a bit mid and bass weight from B. These tones are definitely worth having and Ive used them.

Same B x (M+N) combo, but if its set up with B being the only one in the 'on' group, now you get full B treble coming through backed up by bass from M+N

Now change to this:

B + (M+N), or alternatively and differently B + (MxN). If B is in the 'off' group, its contribution is fed through the small cap to whatever the M and N are doing. Put B in the 'on' group and M+N is 'off' then the B dominates and M+N get fed through the cap (cant feed M x N though the cap though) . Ive never actually heard these tones myself so im not sure how to describe them, but Id think they will be clear and snappy with similar volume to a single.

All of those can be mixed up the three pickups any way around, and have any pickup out of phase with the other two (same as any two OOP with the other one)

Its untested but my hunch is that this is a good idea. Yogis last diagram perfected the basic concept of series/parallel and mixed combos, which is why I used his as the new base camp. I think that this one extra switch leaves all that intact, and adds a good range of the further options with caps, without breaking anything.

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

phew, had to read that a couple times, sounds like some serious options. I like it and it would be MUCH cheaper than buying all the switches I was considering and quicker to wire too

the only hurdle is not having the 2 pickup options which I’ve grown to really like and actually miss as I don’t have them on your basic BM wiring 

I think if I used it , after a while I’d have this lingering feeling that somethings missing ,then I’d be back on her driving you all Nutz again 😄

[ourclarioncall]

Going back to the two super phase switches in line with the on/off switch for a moment .....

Curious to know first of all if it would work ?And  If so What tones could it achieve? Or not achieve ?

[JohnH]

I have trouble getting my head around your diagram. Not saying there's anything wrong with it, it's just my head being older than it was.

On the everything scheme, it ought go be possible to keep the concept, but change the two-position switches for on-off of pickups, to three-position ones so the centre position for each pickup is totally off, not assigned to any group. Then the cap switch could work with just two pickups if wanted.

It may need poles reordered to suit the switch, it may need the 4th poles that Yogi used to fix a dead spot to be reclaimed, and it may not quite work at all, but i think it might.

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

i know the feeling lol. Wow, looking at these circuits really demands some strong concentration to retain it all in the mind. If you get distracted the house of cards gets knocked down and you got to build up the focus again 

That new idea with the 3 position switch instead of 2 is very clever. 

just read through your reply #48 again this morning and it made a lot more sense to me now.

lets say hypothetically that you could make this work and that there could be two pickups on with the cap: 

could you control which of those two pickups is fed through the cap ? 

so say you put neck on, middle “truly off” in the centre position and bridge “off”, then either the bridge or neck would go through the cap right ? 

but if you swapped the neck and bridge round so the neck is “off” and the bridge is on , the other pickup would go through the cap. 

so in summary , whichever pickup is in “off” position will go through the cap 

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

sounds like a really cool /clever idea

the only mental block (my inner control freak rising up 🤗) is that I’ve come attached to the idea of having a symmetrical layout, so it’s more logical and intuitive to use . As in 3 on/off switches, with 3 cap switches (well it would be 6 actualy, 3 for series and 3 for parallel) underneath the on/offs.

and also individual control of caps for each pickup

but there’s no guarantee my idea would be able to glean as much variation as I would like

i mean, you can’t have EVERYTHING right ? 😊😆

or can you ?

but yeah, soldier on with machete in hand and see where this goes , it’s exciting venturing into unexplored territory 

[JohnH]

could you control which of those two pickups is fed through the cap ? 

Yes, if it works out. The way you describe it is exactly how id reckon it would work. So would that be of interest for your project? lets call that Option 1

The best alternative I think, is to add another switch per pickup right at the start right after the pickup, before the on-off switches and either just before or after the phase switches. These three , 3-position switches add a cap either in series or parallel with each pickup, being different caps. Call that Option 2

Option 1
needs more expensive 4pdt on on on switches
has two fewer switches overall
knows whether the cap is a larger one for bypass in series, or a smaller one for parallel

Option 2
has two more switches than Option 1
cheaper two position switches for on-off
has a wider range of options, probably amounting to everything in the context of these cap options, but including quite a number that you'd probably never want.

Do those thoughts help?

[ourclarioncall]

JohnH

brilliant, two jungles to explore 😄 

aye, I suppose it would be hard to decide on which way to go until knowing what’s actually a rubber stamped option

option 2 is definitely more appealing on paper with more intuitive control /options/symmetry , but I could possibly change my mind.

Option 1 is still very interesting and if it could work could be something special 

[Yogi B]

Aug 4, 2020 13:04:51 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

yeah, I think unless I had access to “truly Everything” I would still be looking for more ☺️

it’s a bit like doing a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle which you almost complete and get to enjoy the lovely picture, but there is 9 pieces missing from the box 🤗

Well kinda, but (sticking with your analogy) a "truly everything" jigsaw wouldn't have only 1000 pieces, it might have effectively infinite pieces, there's usually something that exists but isn't yet depicted on the jigsaw. For example, even with per-pickup cap switches, you could then possibly add switches to swap between differing values of cap, after that why limit oneself to only switching in capacitors? Resistors could be added to effect non-frequency dependent blending (like the volume switches you mention). The trouble with this infinite jigsaw is that for every piece added, you are left with mounting problems: a larger perimeter to search, in order to match new pieces, and less and less space on your table. At some point you have to have to decide to breaking the jigsaw into more manageable subsections (multiple guitars good a different things) or switch to a different medium such as photography or interpretive dance (e.g. a patchboard instead of switches like modular synths, digitally programmable switching à la the Music Man Gamechanger, or forgo multiple pickups entirely and go the way of the Roland Guitar Synths / Line6 Variax i.e. digital modelling/synthesis).

Aug 4, 2020 13:30:43 GMT -5 ourclarioncall said:

could you have both a series cap on AND a parallel cap on at the same time? For some reason I thought that they would clash and you couldn’t have both on in the same circuit.

Theoretically yes. They will clash but how much depends on which pickup combination they're added to, and the order in which capacitors are grouped when both are active. However the clashing itself could open up a few interesting possibilities, as an example lets consider two pickups in parallel, lets say B + M, then if we add both caps to the middle pickup (47nF first, directly in parallel with the pickup, then the 4.7nF in series with both that cap and the middle pickup), we end up with B + ((M + 47nF) × 4.7nF). This situation would be very similar to just the bridge pickup in parallel with the smaller 4.7nF cap, this isn't a tone that you'd normally be able to get, because usually the smaller cap would be the one that is placed in series with pickup, not parallel. In terms or tone, compared to the bridge pickup alone, this will shift the resonant in frequency pushing it away from treble into upper midrange.

what I meant was if I had a parallel super phase switch and another series Super phase switch, I would and could use them both on at the same time but I thought I could not have them on both selecting the caps.

my intention was to say have the cap setting selected on the parallel super phase switch and have the out of phase setting selected on the series super phase switch

The reason for selecting the later is to change the former from cap bypass to half out of phase. vice versa, I could set the series switch to cap and the parallel to out of phase

The only difference in available tones between having the two 'superphase' switches per pickup and having a simple OoP switch & series/off/parallel cap switch (like Johns option 2) would be that the former has the option to activate both caps simultaneously if desired, whereas the latter does not.

Here are the truth tables of each design:

Switches		Output
Parallel Cap / Superphase	Series Cap / Superphase	Pickup(s)
Normal Phase	Normal Phase	Pickup
	Series Cap	Cs x Pickup
	Reverse Phase	-Pickup
Parallel Cap	Normal Phase	Cp + Pickup
	Series Cap	(Cp + Pickup) x Cs
	Reverse Phase	Cp + -Pickup
Reverse Phase	Normal Phase	-Pickup
	Series Cap	Cs x -Pickup
	Reverse Phase	Pickup

Switches		Output
Caps	Phase	Pickup(s)
Series	Normal Phase	Cs x Pickup
	Reverse Phase	Cs x -Pickup
Off	Normal Phase	Pickup
	Reverse Phase	-Pickup
Parallel	Normal Phase	Cp + Pickup
	Reverse Phase	Cp + -Pickup

The only result that is present in the first table, but not in the second, is where both caps are selected, i.e. (Cp + Pickup) x Cs. Also worthy of note is that there isn't a reversed phase version of this setting, when wiring up the superphase switches, you can to decide to have it either way (normal or reverse phase), but you couldn't change between them without rewiring.

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

YogiB said:

“Well kinda, but (sticking with your analogy) a "truly everything" jigsaw wouldn't have only 1000 pieces, it might have effectively infinite pieces, there's usually something that exists but isn't yet depicted on the jigsaw. For example, even with per-pickup cap switches, you could then possibly add switches to swap between differing values of cap, after that why limit oneself to only switching in capacitors? Resistors could be added to effect non-frequency dependent blending (like the volume switches you mention). The trouble with this infinite jigsaw is that for every piece added, you are left with mounting problems: a larger perimeter to search, in order to match new pieces, and less and less space on your table. At some point you have to have to decide to breaking the jigsaw into more manageable subsections (multiple guitars good a different things) or switch to a different medium such as photography or interpretive dance (e.g. a patchboard instead of switches like modular synths, digitally programmable switching à la the Music Man Gamechanger, or forgo multiple pickups entirely and go the way of the Roland Guitar Synths / Line6 Variax i.e. digital modelling/synthesis).”

Mind blown 🤯. Again 😄

You got me laughing here as my imagination went to JohnH jumping on the computer , sending you a PM saying

“PSSST , don’t put ideas in his head !!”
🤣🤣

Ok, yeah, I never realised there was so many possibilities, especially with 3 coils. In the beginning I was trying to just explore the landscape and the landmarks . Visit the four corners of the musical land as it were. I wasn’t too concerned with sounds that actually sounded good, I wanted the good the bad and the ugly. Perfboard patcher gave me a few pointers with this.



But yeah, hmmm.

With the volume switches I have I tend to think of them more as tone switches , as you mentioned resistors being used and I suppose that’s what’s happening with the volume switches in a way , I’m able to manipulate the overall sound.

So I think with 3 coils, series/parallel , phasing, caps , resistors, and the ability to mix these, and also a logical /easy to remember / symmetrical layout , that would be enough of “everything” to keep me satisfied .☺️




YogiB said:
“Theoretically yes. They will clash but how much depends on which pickup combination they're added to, and the order in which capacitors are grouped when both are active. However the clashing itself could open up a few interesting possibilities, as an example lets consider two pickups in parallel, lets say B + M, then if we add both caps to the middle pickup (47nF first, directly in parallel with the pickup, then the 4.7nF in series with both that cap and the middle pickup), we end up with B + ((M + 47nF) × 4.7nF). This situation would be very similar to just the bridge pickup in parallel with the smaller 4.7nF cap, this isn't a tone that you'd normally be able to get, because usually the smaller cap would be the one that is placed in series with pickup, not parallel. In terms or tone, compared to the bridge pickup alone, this will shift the resonant in frequency pushing it away from treble into upper midrange.”

Reminds me of this - At 10:00 onwards I have two single coils in series and both pickups have a cap on.


—

[ourclarioncall]

Just been pondering....

Would it be easy to enlarge Johns everything wiring to say 5 single coils ? Scaleable? Is that the word?

I was just thinking , if it was , then how the combinations of series/parallel mixes might work

Say I had 2 pickups on in parallel and the other 3 were off , then the 3 that are off could be added back in again in series via the “dp3t on-on-on series /parallel mix switch” (that was a mouthful !)

But say I had 2 pickups on in parallel and only wanted to add in 1 of the 3 that are off in again in series , that wouldn’t be possible

But then John had the idea of changing the on/off for each pickup to a on/truly off/off switch , so maybe that way it could be done by being able to have 2 pickups on in parallel , 2 pickups truly off and the last pickup off which could be added back in again in series

[ourclarioncall]

Yogi B

i thought of you today 😄 my mum took me and the wife and kids out for a meal and while we were in the restaurant I looked down and saw the password for the free WiFi access , it was - yogiebear 😁