|
|
Post by newey on Aug 4, 2020 16:35:17 GMT -5
I've bandied this idea around in the past, couldn't remember if I had actually posted something or just made a passing mention. But today I pulled the trigger on the parts, so I guess the idea is happening (eventually- my projects happen at a glacial pace . . .  ). The idea is a Strat-style guitar with 3 volume pots, one per pickup. Each pot has an internal SPST switch, with a detent at the end of the knob travel, such as are used on radios, etc, to both turn the unit on and adjust the volume. Here, the switch turns each pickup on/off. No other switching is used. So, I get all 7 parallel combos of the 3 pickups, with the ability to blend each pickup to taste. The detented pot switches are probably a bit slower than flicking a toggle or a 5-way, so maybe not the thing for fast changes while playing on stage. But I don't do that anyway, so shouldn't be an issue at the pace at which I do things. But, here's the question. I have trouble working out when a pot is loading the circuit or not. I drew this diagram up:  which uses the SPST switches to disconnect each pickup, before the wiring goes to the pot. But would it be better to use the SPST to switch the pot instead of the pickup? (That was my thought after I drew the diagram). Does it make any difference? At position 4 on a std. Strat 5-way, 3 pots are in circuit, and I've never thought that sounded too bad, so I'm not sure having all 3 pots loading the circuit at all times is a horrible thing- more than 3 starts to be an issue, as we've said here. But, if I do switch the pot/pickup combo in/out with the switch, is that really taking the pot out of the circuit or not? |
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Aug 4, 2020 17:18:26 GMT -5
Better to put the switches on the hot wires coming out of each pot to disconnect it all fully from the jack when off. Otherwise any pot turned off or nearly off would shunt the whole output to ground.
|
|
|
|
Post by ashcatlt on Aug 4, 2020 17:28:28 GMT -5
I agree with John. It’ll be loading the circuit any time it’s connected to both ends of the circuit. In this case, all of the pots are so connected at all times.
|
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 4, 2020 18:46:13 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
Where would you get these switched detented pots from? And are they above 100k😀. I would actually give this a try.
|
|
|
|
Post by ourclarioncall on Aug 4, 2020 20:01:24 GMT -5
I like this idea
I actually saw a video on YouTube of a strat wired similar to this
I had a look but can’t find it
not sure how his worked but I liked the tones he was getting .
don’t think I saw any switches so maybe all 3 coils were on full volume and he just turn the volumes down to change the sound
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 5, 2020 6:05:52 GMT -5
frets- Several years ago, when I searched for these things, I could have had them through Mouser or Digikey. Neither place has them in stock anymore, Digikey will order them on an 8-week timeframe and one has to buy 100+ before they'll order them. SO, after much googlin' about, I found them on Amazon, $10 for a pair (complete with black anodized knobs, no less). To get the 3 I needed, I had to order 2 sets. I abhor dealing with Amazon, but I held my nose and pulled the trigger. They are 250KΩ. They have 500K ones as well. 
|
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 5, 2020 12:54:49 GMT -5
Newey,
This is great, I can’t believe you found these things. I’m holding my nose and buying 4. A new project. Got the perfect ax for them.
Bought the 250k’s, they were $24 including shipping. Are you going to revise your diagram? Huh huh?
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 5, 2020 22:17:18 GMT -5
Yes, but I have an appointment with my mattress in the near future. So maybe tomorrow. As soon as I finished the diagram, I thought that I should have switched the pots instead. Confirmation by JohnH and ashcatlt then solidified it. Drawing before thinking, once again!  |
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 6, 2020 10:51:35 GMT -5
Hey Newey,
I hope you get/got some rest. I look forward to seeing how to get this Wired so the volumes do not clash.
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 6, 2020 22:12:01 GMT -5
OK, V2.0, hopefully both better and correct  |
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 7, 2020 9:39:25 GMT -5
Hi Newey,
I really appreciate this. Thank you so much. I have never worked with switched pots so I didn’t have a clue. I’m building it as soon as they arrive. I’m going to add series and tone toggles. I know how busy you must be so know it is appreciated.
- Cindi 😽
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 9, 2020 20:39:04 GMT -5
Hi Newey, I really appreciate this. Thank you so much. I have never worked with switched pots so I didn’t have a clue. I’m building it as soon as they arrive. I’m going to add series and tone toggles. I know how busy you must be so know it is appreciated. - Cindi 😽 , volume controls connected in parallel don't behave well when any one of them is rotated to minimum. That kills all sound from all pickups. That's the reason for the switches. Volume controls connected in series work just fine. If one of the volume controls is at minimum, its pickup contributes nothing and its place in the circuit is replaced by a direct path. That's just fine. But having a switch to open the circuit creates a huge problem in the series arrangement. That would break the series chain and result in no sound. You definitely don't want that. |
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 10, 2020 11:20:16 GMT -5
Hi Retread,
Thanks for the heads up. I was pondering if that may be the case, but wasn’t quite sure. I’ll nix the series idea. But I am quite excited about having this switched guitar. Got the perfect body, am making the neck out of Walnut with a Jatoba fretboard and brass markers. The guitar will be a NC swamp ash probably in a black Crimson Guitars stain. Alexander Pribora VooDoo Pickups. And a tone switch probably around 8nF.
I do go on don’t I?🤪
|
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Aug 10, 2020 20:13:00 GMT -5
erTrEaD, Volume controls connected in series work just fine. If one of the volume controls is at minimum, its pickup contributes nothing and its place in the circuit is replaced by a direct path. That's just fine. But having a switch to open the circuit creates a huge problem in the series arrangement. That would break the series chain and result in no sound. You definitely don't want that. The italicized portion and the bolded portion don't seem to jibe.... unless the two components are considered separately, and are inserted into different parts of the overall circuitry. I had to read and re-read this paragraph about 6 times in order see where I was having a problem. It's not me, it's the fact that it can be interpreted in at least two different ways, and possibly even more. I need to ask for clarification as to intent, if you please. Just where are each of the two parts placed that would satisfy your quoted statements? A diagram would be worth about 10,000 words, I should think.  (Inflation and all that, eh.  ) sumgai |
|
|
|
Post by Yogi B on Aug 10, 2020 22:04:27 GMT -5
sumgai I think you're just missing a three letter word: reTrEaD's pointing out that the ideas you highlighted "don't ... jibe" and therein lies the problem.
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 11, 2020 6:36:32 GMT -5
Yeah, I never contemplated any series combos with this arrangement. The idea was simply to (simply) get all parallel combinations of 3 single coils in a minimalist fashion, with some ability to blend each pickup into the mix.
I think one would need switched pots with DPDT switches to do a similar scheme with some series options. There are switched pots with DPDT switches embedded therein, but I was unable to find any in the sorts of resistance values useful to us in the guitar-builder world. IIRC, I saw ones at 5KΩ and 10KΩ maybe with active pickups those would be useful.
|
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Aug 11, 2020 8:37:36 GMT -5
Series might work out ok. If an extra switch could be configured to get all the pickups and their pots in series, Youd just have to work with turning the pots up and down but not clicking the switches off. You could still have very good control of each pickup in a series mix using its pot from 1 to 10.
Or, could probably get the main series-parallel switch to bypass the individual switches on the pots.
|
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 11, 2020 11:34:38 GMT -5
Youd just have to work with turning the pots up and down but not clicking the switches off. That would make it a bit fussy when switching between series and parallel. Having a pot nearly CCW but not off in the series mode is no problem. But having a pot nearly CCW in the parallel mode it a real tone-suck on the other pickups in the mix. Or, could probably get the main series-parallel switch to bypass the individual switches on the pots. It would take a 5PDT switch to do this properly. You could almost get there with a 4PDT and clever use of two of the poles, but if all pots were at zero you wouldn't have a proper shorted output. |
|
|
|
Post by Yogi B on Aug 11, 2020 13:07:36 GMT -5
Or, could probably get the main series-parallel switch to bypass the individual switches on the pots. It would take a 5PDT switch to do this properly. Can I beg to differ? |
|
|
|
Post by reTrEaD on Aug 11, 2020 13:32:34 GMT -5
You can, you may, and you should. Nicely done, Yogi B! |
|
|
|
Post by JohnH on Aug 11, 2020 16:15:00 GMT -5
Yep!
Should add treble bleed circuits to the pots to keep the clarity, particularly is series mode but they'll also aid mixing in parallel mode by smoothing the pot taper.
So what would this be good for? It sure does get a lot of tones, with one switch and three pots, everything from our BM series/parallel schemes but with each pickup independently mixed. Also, if used correctly, all the tones are pretty much uncompromised by loading and other deleterious electrical issues. I think its role would be to provide those tones one at a time, without particularly needing to change quickly between tones, though there would be a few good rythym/lead transitions available on the series/parallel switch.
Its not so great just for doing simple changes like neck to bridge though, which needs two knobs twisted and clicked in opposite directions through their full sweep. Also, parallel mixes will be concentrated in the upper regions of the volume pots, while series ones will use the lower range.
A useful scheme though IMO.
|
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 11, 2020 16:56:57 GMT -5
Hey Guys, me ageeeen!!, I’m still on the fence about the series. I appreciate all of your assistance though. I’m looking forward to it. I finished the neck today and am working on the body. I’m now leaning more to a straight shoot of Gold. And go with a a top of Glamour gloss epoxy instead of nitrous. Neck took a full week. I still need to do the final leveling and crowning on the frets. I did a couple passes of leveling and dress up for this pic but they’re not done; nor, is the nut. It turned out a bit too Satin-ee looking.    |
|
|
|
Post by newey on Aug 11, 2020 19:04:46 GMT -5
frets: That looks a beauty. You should start a separate build thread in the Lutherie section to showcase this (as well as showcasing your skills).
|
|
|
|
Post by frets on Aug 12, 2020 14:06:19 GMT -5
Hey Newey,
Completely spaced out the Lutherie section. I shall do so in the future.
|
|
).
(Inflation and all that, eh. 
)
