billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 17, 2020 0:06:15 GMT -5
Hi,
I have a Strat with an S-1 switch as well as a "super switch". It's a Fender, but its a Frankenstein, neck from one model, body from another. SSH PU configuration with a Duncan JB in the bridge. Not sure if these two switches were ever used together in any stock model of Fender Strat.
It did work, but I wasn't crazy about it, various series/parallel combinations and coil split for the humbucker. You couldn't get the neck or middle PU solo at all. The wiring was definitely amateur work, globs of solder, cold solder joints etc. so I decided to clean it up. I relied on photos for reference instead of making a diagram, I had it working as it was but the humbucker single coil mode was with the S-1 switch depressed...I wanted the humbucker mode to be with the S-1 switch up, so I tried reversing two wires on the S-1, that worked but then things didn't work the same in the other S-1 mode, so I obviously did something different.
That's not that big a deal since I didn't like the circuit anyway, but is there a useful way to wire this guitar using these two switches that offers some practical, versatile sounds including the standard S/S/H settings?
I anyone can post a diagram for something like that I'd greatly appreciate it!
Thanks so much!
Bill
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Post by JohnH on Aug 17, 2020 3:01:29 GMT -5
Hi bilc1, you have a huge number of options using those switches and HSS pickups. An S1 and a Superswitch are the foundation of the Fender Deluxe wirings, and also newer high-spec models, so you can check out the HSS versions to see what they do. You can also use any diagram using standard 5-ways, or any push-pull or toggle switch and achieve the same ends with your switches. Recently, we started hosting a copy of the Phostenix archive, who made many innovative and well presented Strat designs a number of years ago using various switches. Here are his ones using HSS, which might appeal: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/8885/hss-guitarsI also like HSS. This is my favorite, built into my daily player: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/6873/strat-ssm2-hss-sounds-dpdtIt only uses basic switches but would work fine adapted to what you have. It's the one I would do if I had your parts. Or with more going on, this: guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5624/strat-hss-sounds-extra-knobs?page=1But you might instead, consider just doing a very basic wiring with your parts. No need to be complicated. Like a basic strat switching with neck-on switch etc. Depends if you like extras such as series, phase etc.
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 17, 2020 11:45:13 GMT -5
Thanks for all the info. I'd like to do series/parallel with the neck and middle PUs, coil split for the humbucker, possibly auto split in position 4.
Is there a diagram for the stock Fender Deluxe wiring with an S-1 and super switch? I didn't find anything in a search, maybe I didn't have the right keywords.
Thanks,
Bill
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Post by sumgai on Aug 17, 2020 14:36:31 GMT -5
Is there a diagram for the stock Fender Deluxe wiring with an S-1 and super switch? I can't believe that I've never posted this, ere now. I'm positive I did, but sure as shootin', I can't find it now. Dang. Anywho, this is what I traced out from my 2005 Am Strat Deluxe, as stock as it can get: HTH sumgai
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Post by JohnH on Aug 17, 2020 16:25:01 GMT -5
Here is a service manual for a 2005 HSS Fender Deluxe: p4.zdassets.com/hc/theme_assets/549136/200076499/010-1500_02Aupg1_SISD.pdfIt has some series/parallel The latest descendent of that is an HSS Ultra www.fmicassets.com/Damroot/Original/10001/SM_011802XXXX_Ultra_Stratocaster_HSS_REV_1_16_2020.pdfBut all it does is normal Strat options plus coil split But the tones you describe are easily done with your parts. My two posted above both do all that but operate differently. The first one is closest and is simple too. All the basic tones expected are where they should be, but by using the controls you can get all singles and all paired combinations of coils in series or parallel, plus a few extras. But with your switches, it is very likely that if you can describe an exact wish-list of what should happen in each switch position (5 way x 2 positions of the S1 = 10) then it can probably be achieved, or reasonably close.
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 17, 2020 16:47:43 GMT -5
Thanks so much for your help, John!
The Strat Ultra functions are fine for me. This guitar has standard single coil Strat PUs, though, so I'm not sure how to adapt that to the diagram...I'm sure that's simple, though.
BTW, thanks for your schematic, but I can't read a schematic, unfortunately...
Best,
BC
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 18, 2020 14:39:37 GMT -5
The Noiseless pickups have 3 conductors that appear to be incorporated into the circuit, mine have only two. Other than that the HSS Ultra wiring would be perfect for me. How would I adapt the 2 conductor PUs to this diagram?
Thanks
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Post by newey on Aug 18, 2020 15:21:49 GMT -5
The Gen4 Noiseless Strat pickups have 2 ground wires, green and black You can ignore the 3rd wire, as it just gets grounded anyway. However, I don't think you told us what pickups you will be using, besides the Duncan JB in the bridge. The wire colors for your other pickups will definitely matter. What other pickups are you using, and what are the wire colors?
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 18, 2020 16:23:43 GMT -5
They're regular American Standard type single coils. Neck has black and white wires, middle black and red (to distinguish it as RW/RP).
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Post by JohnH on Aug 18, 2020 16:24:03 GMT -5
That HSS Ultra wiring sure makes a meal of what it does! Essentially, it offers 'yer basic B, B+M, M, M+N, N, with the S1 switch used to split the bridge humbucker. To do this its using 8 lugs on the S1! Its also got a special looking hybrid combo of a standard 5 way and half a super-switch. What should we call that? a mixture of a 'STandARD' and 'sUPer' = a 'STUPARD' switch ! (Fender, you are welcome to use that, we can agree terms later) I think it must all be about controlling whether or not the noise cancelling coils on the singles are in or out. What is offers though is a good practical option, but noting there is no neck plus bridge or series combos offered. So doing that with standard pickups is a lot simpler. Its basically a standard wiring of a Strat translated to using a superswitch, with the coil split using just two lugs on the S1. Im sure we can draw that up, but also, need to know more about the humbucker. eg 1. what wire colours does it have 2. can you tell which colours go to which coil (usually needs some tests - tapping the poles with a screwdriver tip, but Fender pickups you can see from the back) 3. Youll want the split bridge coil to be hum cancelling with the middle. The key thing is magnetic polarity, and they need to be opposite. Can you determine which bridge coil has opposite magnetism to the Middle? use a compass, another magnet or place face to face and see which attract. 4. How is the humbucker wired now? which wire to ground, which to hot? Most humbucker wirings have two wires joined - if so which two? Noting its a JB, but sometimes combinations with Fender pickups get their wires moved around to be in-phase correctly
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 18, 2020 16:44:37 GMT -5
Well, according to the chart, the Ultra wiring definitely has series/parallel combinations of the neck and middle and that's what I need. The "passing lane" switch might be nice but I think that would require an additional switch?
Re the JB, the green and shield go to ground now. The red and white wires are soldered together. When combined with the middle PU now the JB is in phase.
I have checked which color goes to which coil but I can do that.
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 18, 2020 16:51:36 GMT -5
Using a bar magnet, the middle PU and the outer coil (with the pole pieces) of the JB are the same polarity (the magnet attracts or repels both the same way).
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Post by JohnH on Aug 18, 2020 17:40:40 GMT -5
Getting closer, but we may be looking at different diagrams. The 2020 HSS Ultra I linked above states only parallel combinations. But no problem, just need to determine what the whole set of 5x2=10 switch combos should be.
Looks like for the splitting, youll be wanting the inner bridge coil (ie nearest to M) for humcancelling with M, being opposite polarities.
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 18, 2020 20:00:33 GMT -5
But in any case, the switch positions and series/parallel PU combinations here on the "switch and control function" page are good for me.
Gotcha about the outside coil of the JB, thanks for that. Just have to figure out whether the red or white wire corresponds to the inside coil.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 18, 2020 21:37:53 GMT -5
I'm just seeing "COMBINED PICKUPS ARE IN PARALLEL" for both up and down positions?
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 19, 2020 0:39:01 GMT -5
You're right! Sorry, I must've been hallucinating what I wanted to see! Scratch that one, then.
What I'd like is this with one of the S-1 positions providing series combinations. The coil split can be parallel only, I don't necessarily need one coil from the bridge PU in series with the middle PU in addition to in parallel, although that would be OK.
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Post by JohnH on Aug 20, 2020 16:35:26 GMT -5
Thinking a bit about this, so what would be your comments on the following? (and comments from anyone else too). I think we may not quite have an ideal diagram at hand, so might as well work out the best it can be.
I reckon as a general design principle for wirings, its good to think about not only the set of tones that you have but also how you use them, how easy is it to find the most important ones, how quickly you can move between them and how logically they relate to normal simpler versions for that guitar.
On an HSS I think the bridge humbucker is the key go-to setting that you always want to get back to for boosted rhythms or leads. Personally, I find the other three I use are neck single or Neck+Middle for normal rhythm, or a series tone with the neck to create a neck tone to compete with the bridge Hb. Bridge single can be good to have but I never use it myself, but split bridge plus middle is often liked.
If you want some neck series and some bridge split options, no problem but how to configure them?
You could have:
Option 1
B split B split +M M M+N N
then press the S1 to get
B humbucker B hb + M M M+N NxM (=series)
But that means two switch moves to go from N to bridge humbucker.
or Option 2
flip them around:
B hb B hb +M M M+N N
then press the S1 to get
B split B split + M M M+N NxM (=series)
Not sure... this one has the basic HSS tones with switch up, but then when you press it the bridge goes to a thinner split tone and the neck gets to a thicker series tone
Option 3
Simple....based on autosplit and no bridge single, not using the S1 for the bridge
S1 up:
B humbucker B split + M M M+N N
S1 down:
B humbucker B split + M M M+N NxM (=series)
Option 4
This one has added awesomeness and its what I would probably want to do if for myself:
It uses one pot as a series fader, S1 just controls the bridge so you can preset everything for one-switch moves. It can have more series options if wanted and you can bring up the series action smoothly, cutting out the muddiness of series:
B humbucker (press S1 for Bridge split) B hb + M (press S1 for Bridge split + M) M , turn up the blend pot to move to M x N series M+N , turn up the blend pot to move to (M+N) in series with B split N , turn up the blend pot to move to N in series with B split (its the best series tone IMO!)
other variations are possible
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 20, 2020 17:14:22 GMT -5
Thanks for devoting so much thought to this, John. That's a lot to think about, let me digest this and I'll get back to you.
Bill
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 20, 2020 17:16:07 GMT -5
That last option with the sensible switch moves and series blend pot is intriguing, though.
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 26, 2020 18:20:57 GMT -5
OK, sorry for the long interval since the last message...
I've decided to keep it simple and practical. The "normal" Strat settings (neck, neck + middle in parallel, middle, middle + bridge, and use the S-1 simply as a coil split for the humbucker. I don't even need the super switch for this...
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billc1
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Post by billc1 on Aug 27, 2020 23:39:15 GMT -5
...and auto split would be nice too.
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