Component inquiry - pushbutton DPDT switches & 4PDT question

[skipstomp]

I'm getting into wiring a few of my beater guitars to have individual toggles for each pickup, as well as a series/parallel switch. I'm not too savvy when it comes to components, and trying to find the right bits for the project is a bit daunting.
The project is based on the Super Strat Switching mod from 1728, with a few adjustments. Not interested in a phase switch so I'm not doing that part, and I also am planning on hooking up the tone knob as a Master Tone instead of individual tone controls. 

I'm wondering if there are pushbutton switches that latch in the down (on) position? I have a Soviet Russian Ural 650 that has exactly that for the pickup selectors, pic below for example



(photo from meatexz/cheesyguitars)

I've been trying to track down pushbutton switches similar to the ones on the Ural but I'm only finding tiny circular switches or mechanical keyboard switches, most of which are not latching (need latching for the visual indication of which pickups are toggled on)
Toggle/lever switches aren't really that appealing to me, so if I can't find pushbutton switches I'll end up using some jag style slide switches.

As for the series/parallel 4DPT, will any on-on switch work? The 4DPT will end up being a regular toggle/lever switch since it'll be tucked between the volume and tone knob so I can't hit it when playing aggressively. 

[newey]

skipstomp-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

I'm a little unclear on whether you are rebuilding your Ural or a new guitar, using similar pushbutton switches. If the switches do not need to be rectangular, you have a lot more options, and it's a lot easier to drill a round hole than to cut a rectangular one. (Same with slide switches.) Also, if series/parallel switching is wanted, the pickup on/off switches will need to be DPDT switches.

If you want ones that are just like the Ural switches- same size button, etc., then you may need to check for fans of those guitars, see if anyone has those parts available. I also note that Eastwood Guitars, through their custom shop, is currently taking deposits for a recreation of the Ural 650 (Eastwood Customs will take deposits for new models, if they get enough people to deposit $$, then they'll make that model). I don't know if they would sell you any pasrts, though.

If the switches need not be identical to the Ural ones, then as I said, you have many options. Mouser and Digikey both have them, of various types. They don't call them "latching" switches, however- they're referred to as being "On-Off, Off-On". Try searching for that type. You'll need to get them through one of the electronics supply houses, I've never seen any of the guitar parts websites that carry anything like that.

As for the series/parallel 4DPT, will any on-on switch work?

Yes, so long as it has 4 poles and will fit the space you have.

[skipstomp]

Thanks for the quick response! The wiring mods are for two beater Strat clones I'm working on.

I guess the switches won't need to be rectangular, especially if that makes finding components easier! I'll see what Mouser has, there's a few other components for other projects I need to order from them anyways.

Does off-on or on-off affect what state the switch is in when it's pushed in? (as in, does off-on have it on in the pushed-in position, whereas on-off would be off in the pushed-in position?) Or am I just overthinking the hell out of that?

Interesting that Eastwood is trying to reissue these guitars, though I guess that's been their niche for a long time. The Ural 650 (or, at least just mine) does not play super well but those pickups sound like nothing else.

[newey]

I suspect any Eastwood clone of the Urals they build will play much better than the originals . . .

Usually, in addition to the designation as "on-off, off-on", they also designate these as "NO-NC" or "NC-NO" (i.e., "normally closed-normally open", or vice versa). If it's "NO-NC", then (presumably) pushing the button in closes the circuit, turning the pickup "on" when pushed in. But even if the switch was the other way around, you could wire it so that pushing the switch in un-grounded the pickup, thus turned it on when open.

[Yogi B]

Oct 22, 2020 11:38:01 GMT -5 skipstomp said:

I've been trying to track down pushbutton switches similar to the ones on the Ural but I'm only finding tiny circular switches or mechanical keyboard switches, most of which are not latching (need latching for the visual indication of which pickups are toggled on)

AFAIK "latching" isn't the correct term here: a latching switch is just one that isn't momentary. (i.e. the unique property of latching switches is their ability to maintain multiple states without constant user intervention, whereas a momentary switch will return to a single state when released.) As such, it is not true that all latching switches can have their state visibly determined, e.g. most stompboxes have latching switches, yet their actuator returns to the same height after each switching action.

Unfortunately I don't know of a correct term (or whether one exists) specifically for switches where not only their switching function is latching, but so too is their actuator.

Oct 22, 2020 15:32:58 GMT -5 newey said:

Usually, in addition to the designation as "on-off, off-on", they also designate these as "NO-NC" or "NC-NO"

I've very rarely seen a latching switch with "normally open/closed" designations, as that doesn't make a whole lot of sense -- what is the "normal" state of a latching switch? There's (at least) two options and no concrete reason for picking either.

(The one exception that comes to mind are Switchcraft who call their LP toggle switches "SPST(NC)/SPST(NC)", which implies the centre position is "normal".)

Additionally, looking on mouser, filtering to your "On-Off, Off-On" description results in switches with 4 terminals -- in one position, a pair of which are connected together whist the other two are open, and vice-versa in the second position.

In my experience (latching) dual throw switches, push-button or otherwise, are usually described as "On-On".

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To my mind the tricky thing with any push switch is mounting height -- in order such that the switch and its cap don't sit so high as to be obstructing -- as visible below, in the video, the switches mounted as such that they extend a significant distance below the pickguard. This limits your options for 4PDTs, as with that style of push-switch additional poles usually extend the length of the switch rather than the width. This, for example

As mentioned, here's a video diving under the pickguard of one of these guitars (strong language warning):

[newey]

skipstomp-

Yogi may well be right on this. Let's research this a bit further before you buy anything.