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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Apr 25, 2006 13:00:52 GMT -5
I've gotten an inquiry from a guy who'd like to wire his humbuckers in series. (And I pointed him in the direction of this forum, but I don't think he's taken the hint yet.) His original plan was to have Both/series only, which could've led to a problem (ground loop of sorts?) because he only has two-wire 'buckers. UnklMickey pointed that out to me, and I passed it along to the other guy. I think we've got him talked into using a switch for series or parallel, but he says he's having a hard time finding a wiring diagram. I suspect that's because most diagrams are for four-wire pups, but maybe I'm mistaken. He might be persuaded to either add new wires to the existing pups, or install some four-wire replacements. If it's just not practical with two-wire pups, that should inspire him to try another tack. Ideas?
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Post by sumgai on Apr 25, 2006 17:28:33 GMT -5
Doug,
The first question I have is one of ergonomics - does he have an LP type ax, with the LP type toggle on the upper bout? If so, then he's in deep caa-caa. That switch can only do parallel connections, series is out of the question.
Given the LP layout, if he doesn't want to modify anything appearance wise, then he'll have to install a rotary switch in place of one of the tone controls (or a volume pot, mox nix). If he's open to drilling holes, then he could install a mini-toggle that will take the place of his regular toggle switch. It would have to be a 4P3T, but you've seen that kind of thing here before.
If he's using a non-LP style guitar, then he's probably more open to other switching options. Howzabout a 4-way blade switch found on many Telecasters? Fender used it for some crazy stunt, giving the user some asinine tone, but the point here is, the switch itself has the 'moxie' to build a N/N + B/N x B/B setup.
If he's truly against the parallel sound at all, then drop back to the standard 3-way unit (non-shorting!), and that'll work too.
A wiring diagram can be whipped up in jig-time, if that's all that's holding him back, but that 'touchy-feely' issue is important enough for me that I won't start on one until we hear back from you on this point. What are his answers to the above criteria?
sumgai
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Apr 25, 2006 21:19:25 GMT -5
A wiring diagram can be whipped up in jig-time, if that's all that's holding him back, but that 'touchy-feely' issue is important enough for me that I won't start on one until we hear back from you on this point. What are his answers to the above criteria? I dunno, but I'll try to find out. I'll suggest to him again that he join this board and communicate directly with the specialists here. (The other forum's server had some problems, and my PM to him might've been among the messages that it "ate.") Thanks for your input, SG.
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Post by Runewalker on Apr 25, 2006 21:44:43 GMT -5
4 coils all in System and Local series. I don't speak the Queen's English, as you all know (however I am multi-lingual as my native language is Texan), but I believe our Englishman of the newly aquired Marshall DSL, would pronounce this wireing election as:
"Thick and Wooly."
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 25, 2006 21:56:02 GMT -5
It depends on what the two wires actually do. If the pickup has two conductors and a shield, he should be okay. If it's ONE conductor and a shield (on both pickups) then it won't work. He can replace one pot with a push-pull or push-push type and get the result he wants. He will, however, need to do a bit of rewiring to make it work, as a typical LP isn't set up for that sort of thing. There was a diagram of this in Guitar Player ages ago. If I can dig it up, I'll post it.
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 26, 2006 7:23:21 GMT -5
If he wants the pickups in series WITH EACH OTHER, I have a diagram he might like. It's something I found in Guitar Player years ago. I have tried to draw it from memory, and I think I have it. It'll work at any rate. In the normal parallel mode, it provides completely independent use of the two volume and tone pots. They no longer interact. The volume and tone settings on one pickup don't affect the other when both pickups are on. In series mode, the neck volume and tone act as masters, while the bridge volume allows you to blend in how much bridge you want with your neck. The bridge tone still only affects the bridge pickup. The series mode overrides the selector switch, so you don't have to have the toggle in a particular position for this to work correctly. This setup allows for a ridiculous amount of tonal control. In parallel mode, you can have one pickup's tone at "0" while the other is at "10", for example. It looks completely stock, and his friends will wonder how he's getting all those sounds.
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Post by Runewalker on Apr 26, 2006 11:03:31 GMT -5
If he wants the pickups in series WITH EACH OTHER, I have a diagram he might like. It's something I found in Guitar Player years ago. I have tried to draw it from memory, and I think I have it. It'll work at any rate. In the normal parallel mode, it provides completely independent use of the two volume and tone pots. They no longer interact. The volume and tone settings on one pickup don't affect the other when both pickups are on. In series mode, the neck volume and tone act as masters, while the bridge volume allows you to blend in how much bridge you want with your neck. The bridge tone still only affects the bridge pickup. The series mode overrides the selector switch, so you don't have to have the toggle in a particular position for this to work correctly. This setup allows for a ridiculous amount of tonal control. In parallel mode, you can have one pickup's tone at "0" while the other is at "10", for example. It looks completely stock, and his friends will wonder how he's getting all those sounds. Sounds like an improved version of the Jimmy Page mod without the coil cuts, which I assume could be added easily? Yes, let's take a look. I may have a 2 vol 1 tone HH unit this could be adapted to. RW
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 26, 2006 12:48:26 GMT -5
One thing to remember is that if your pickups have metal covers, they'll have to be grounded seperately from the pickups themselves. I'll post the pic asap.
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 26, 2006 18:56:13 GMT -5
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Apr 26, 2006 20:52:46 GMT -5
Oh, cool! Thanks, Mike. I'll go see if he's answered the email I sent him, reminding him that joining GN2 will let him bypass the middleman (me) and communicate with people who actually know something.
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 26, 2006 21:16:28 GMT -5
I'm trying to get a bigger version of that pic. I'm new to all of this, and going from .doc to .gif to IrfanView to Photobucket to GN2 is driving me crazy.
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Post by Mike Richardson on Apr 26, 2006 21:42:05 GMT -5
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Post by wolf on Apr 27, 2006 0:18:56 GMT -5
Wow I guess I still have to continue my campaign against 2 wire humbuckers. Mike Richardson is quite correct when he said that if one of those "wires" is the ground that's going to be a problem. IF those pickups are chrome-covered, epoxy-filled, sealed-for-eternity "bricks" (such as Gibson manufactures), then he is royally screwed. He WON'T be able to do a series / parallel wiring scheme. Why? The ground can't be "removed" from the pickup because it is physically an integral part of the pickup. It is the second "wire" of the pickup, and is also the ground and is permanently part of that chrome cover. Set the wiring for parallel and if a string hits one of those chrome covers you have a dead short. Yeah, I could go on posting even more about those useless 2 wire humbuckers. Anyway, please go to my website page: www.1728.com/guitar1a.htmand scroll down to the "Installing 4 Conductor Wiring section. The reason I am so dåmned angry at these pickups, is way back in 1980, I bought a Gibson SG Standard (which to me was the ultimate guitar). After a while, I wanted a brighter sound. (Humbuckers played "straight" sound as if you are using lead (as in Pb) strings. I eventually learned that those pickups are NOT made to be taken apart and if I wanted any fancier wiring, I'd have to get new pickups (which I did). Here I am 26 years later and this fact has still left me feeling something less than happy. Anyway, go to the page I suggested for more advice on this subject. Oh and MiniStratMaine, if your friend has those permanently sealed "bricks", please tell him the "good news". Maybe he'll be just as happy to learn about Gibson's idiotic pickup manufacturing practices as I was.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 27, 2006 3:11:18 GMT -5
Hah, Wolf expects everyone here to speak Chemistry! +1 for the good laugh!
sumgai
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Post by wolf on Apr 27, 2006 10:34:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the karma point sumgai I just wanted to make the distinction between "lead" (the metal) and "lead" as in "lead (pronounced LEED) guitar". I thought some people would have thought - GEEZ there are strings for playing lead guitar as opposed to strings for playing rhythm guitar? And I trust my message about Gibson "brick" pickups wasn't lost in the chemistry lesson. Maybe those pickups are fine and dandy for ordinary guitar players. (The kind that like the 1 sound from each pickup and that wired in parallel "middle" position sound.) Sure that may be fine for most people - but this is GuitarNuts™ !!!
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Post by UnklMickey on Apr 27, 2006 18:00:43 GMT -5
...I just wanted to make the distinction between "lead" (the metal) and "lead" as in "lead (pronounced LEED) guitar".... "lead" (the metal), (pronounced Led, as in............)
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xg5a
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Post by xg5a on Apr 27, 2006 22:02:04 GMT -5
Hey everyone, I am the person who this topic applies to, and finally "took the hint" to join this message board.
Now this idea of mine was originally to wire the LP in a way which would enable me to use all 4 coils of my guitar's 2 humbuckers in series. Hopefully, it would boost the guitar's output, and sound pretty awesome. I don't care very much for the current middle setting of my switch, when the pickups are in paralell. However, I do use the 1 and 3 positions quite regularly, and do not wish them to be changed at all. Therefore, what I wanted was to have the switch wired so that it automatically put both pickups into series when it was in the middle position. I do know a little bit about wiring, and figured that I could figure it out myself, but when I opened up the guitar, I soon learned that I was wrong. I've scoured the internet, but haven't been able to find any wiring diagrams. The pickups only have 1 lead wire, plus a shielding/ground wire. I might not be opposed to opening the pickups, but i'm also not sure if they are wax potted. However, I really like the sound, and would perfer not to change them. While talking on another forum, someone told me that even though I don't want to drill any holes, I could use a DPDT toggle switch, and just leave it on the series setting inside the guitar body. I ordered one(it was only $1), but still need a diagram. This was just a semi-crazy idea of mine, and if it's impossible, I won't be that upset. I'm already getting a great sound out of the 1 and 3 positions.
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Post by wolf on Apr 28, 2006 0:09:29 GMT -5
xg5a You probably read my posting on page 1. Anyway, you said:
Well, it might not be a matter of whether you are opposed to opening up the pickups. The decisive factor is if you have those pickups that cannot be opened. Should you be able to get 2 wires (NOT counting the ground) out of just 1 pickup then you can have the series wiring you want. Also if you change your pickup switch to an SPDT center-OFF switch then you could obtain neck / series / bridge choices and NO new holes have to be drilled.
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xg5a
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Post by xg5a on Apr 29, 2006 19:27:30 GMT -5
So what exactly would the 2 wires from the pickup (not counting the ground) accomplish? Wouldn't the pickups be in series if the ground from one was connected to the lead from another? (not that I know how to wire them to do so, while still maintiaing the other pickup selector positions.)
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Post by wolf on Apr 29, 2006 23:40:12 GMT -5
I figured I'd draw a diagram of just the series wiring (since that is where the problem lies.) The top humbucker (neck), becomes "live" when you wire it in series with the bottom humbucker (bridge). If you were to touch the neck humbucker while playing, it will hum. (Kind of defeats the purpose of its name huh?) The chrome casing will be a source of hum anyway because it is meant to be a ground and not a "live" connection. If the strings should hit the neck humbucker, it will act as a crude "coil cut" switch. The strings would short out the series connection and only the neck humbucker would be active. I imagine this would sound horrendous because the string to pickup connection would be very poor and there'd be lots of static and a great many instantaneous changes from series wiring to neck pickup only and back again. You could wire this so that the bridge pickup is the "troublemaker" which might prevent the strings from hitting the casing. HOWEVER, touching the bridge pickup would then cause the hum and even if you never touch it, the chrome cover is still acting as an antenna for hum. (Any karma points for the drawing would be appreciated).
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xg5a
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Post by xg5a on May 3, 2006 16:41:12 GMT -5
So you don't think that humbuckers in series is a good idea after all?
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Post by ChrisK on May 3, 2006 17:10:02 GMT -5
I think that humbuckers in series are a great idea. I do it often.
However, these are 4 wire (2 per coil) units with a separate wire for the cover and frame (if installed). At a minimum, they are 2 wire (both coils internally wired in series [most common] or parallel [least common, ie Duckbuckers]) AND have a third wire for the internal shield.
A two wire humbucker, with a metal cover, using a shielded single conductor (the single conductor is the "hot", and the shield is the other coil end) IS problematic as wolf discusses. It's very much like the Tele covered neck pickup, the cover is connected to one of the two wire leads. Fortunately, the Tele issue is easy to alleviate. A covered, wax impregnated humbucker requires surgery to effect changes, and it not recommended for the novice.
Not only does one have to convert it to at least three wire configuration, one also has to re solder the cover back on, and should then re-wax the unit's internals (Note: hot liquid paraffin makes an excellent fire bomb, don't try this on the planet unless you really know what you're doing).
Wiring such pickups in series WILL work. The pickup with the cover that does not have the cover lead connected to the guitar common reference WILL not be shielded (as in the cover wire is now NOT the noise return wire to common), AND the "hanging" cover becomes a BUZZZZZZZZ button if touched.
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Post by wolf on May 3, 2006 21:18:23 GMT -5
ChrisK is quite right in what he says. As I stated on Page 1 (and as I've stated many times including on my website page www.1728.com/guitar1a.htmif you have one of those 'sealed-for-eternity', 'epoxy-filled' "bricks", not only is removing the cover impossible, getting at the coils is totally out of the question. Either be content with what you have or buy new pickups.
Yes ChrisK is correct in saying removing the cover on a humbucker is tricky but it is absolutely IMPOSSIBLE to do so on one of those "bricks" without completely destoying the pickup.
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