moloch
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by moloch on Apr 25, 2006 19:16:49 GMT -5
Hi, I've been trying to get a diagram drawn up for this for a few days now. I'm in my MOS school in the Marine Corps (an electronics mos) and we're doing soldering right now. So my SSgt is going to let me bring my guitar in tomorrow to rewire it (it needs it bad). So I'm trying to wire it up actually using my push/pull pot this time (right now its just not hooked up). So theres a background. I've a SD Dimebucker in the bridge & a DiMarzio PAFPro in the neck, both are 4 conductor pups. The control setup is 1vol, 1tone, 3way toggle. The tone pot is a push/pull switch. I want the switch to cause both pickups to be independantly parallel or series. In other words with the push/pull up I want to be able to select my bridge pup and its coils will be in parallel with eachother, and the same for the neck, if I select both pickups they will be in series with eachother but the coils will be in parallel. And then obviously with the switch down I want just standard series wiring. I'll post what I have drawn up so far, but from reading other posts on this forum I'm not sure if its going to do what i want it to or not. img172.imageshack.us/img172/9439/img01030ly.jpg (fairly large resolution, about 900k) One major point of confusion for me is the placement of the tone capacitor. One guy trying to help me get this drawn up has it placed between the tone & volume pot, but right now its wired to the tone pot and then grounded. Which way should it go? Any help is appreciated, sorry if this has been answered before but I wasn't getting a clear answer from other posts and I need this drawn out plainly for me so I can take it in and get it done tomorrow with some confidence. It pretty much has to be done right on the first try.
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moloch
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 25
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Post by moloch on Apr 25, 2006 22:34:34 GMT -5
Ok, so I think I've decided that what I WANT to do isn't possible. I can either change the coils in one pickup between series & parallel, or I switch the humbuckers to be in series or parallel with eachother. But I can't switch each independantly with the switch that I have (on/on push/pull dpdt).
SO, in lieu of that, do you all think I would get the best tonal option applying the switch to the bridge or neck pickup. OR would it be better to attach both pups to the switch and combine them in parallel with the switch activated? If I do combine them, does it only have an effect when both pickups are selected at the 3way toggle? Or does the dpdt override the toggle? How does that work?
Keeping in mind I have a high-output dimebucker in the bridge and a pafpro in the neck. I'm flopping between wiring the switch to the bridge or to both pups. I think the output on the neck is already low & bright enough for everything I do.
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Apr 25, 2006 22:37:41 GMT -5
Welcome to GN2. One major point of confusion for me is the placement of the tone capacitor. One guy trying to help me get this drawn up has it placed between the tone & volume pot, but right now its wired to the tone pot and then grounded. Which way should it go? I think you want the cap grounded, so it can bleed off to ground whatever frequencies it's supposed to affect. Another thing is, if soldered between two pots, the cap (or any such "jumper" between pot shells) could set up a ground loop. Semper Fi from an ex-Air Force guy.
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Post by jhng on Apr 26, 2006 7:12:24 GMT -5
Hi Moloch,
Welcome to Guitarnuts.
Unfortunately a single push/pull can't be used to simultaneously do series/parallel switching for both the Bridge and Neck pups (certainly not combined with an ordinary three-way toggle).
You could do it using a 4PDT toggle switch. There are no 4PDT push/pulls that I know off, although the Fender S1 switch does combine a 4PDT with a rotary pot.
Some options you could do with the existing push/pull are:
a) Simultaneous coil-splitting for both pups; b) A Series/Parallel switch for either the Bridge or the Neck; c) A switch to override the 3 way toggle and give both pups in series with each other (either in or out of phase); d) A phase switch;
Hope this helps.
Hastings
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moloch
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by moloch on Apr 26, 2006 9:04:47 GMT -5
I thought the standard operation of a 1vol 1tone w/ 3way was series? Are they usually in parallel?
I decided to use both pups wired together on the push/pull, i guess overriding the 3way when its activated?
Are pickups usually wired together in parallel with the coils in series?
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Post by UnklMickey on Apr 26, 2006 9:10:13 GMT -5
"I think you want the cap grounded, so it can bleed off to ground whatever frequencies it's supposed to affect. Another thing is, if soldered between two pots, the cap (or any such "jumper" between pot shells) could set up a ground loop" Doug, quick lesson here, the tone pot and cap are in series with each other, so it doesn't matter which one goes first. i think Moloch's description kinda misled you. i think he mean in the one instance the tone cap was connected between a TERMINAL of the volume control and a TERMINAL of the tone pot. but he wasn't specific, and you didn't ask. so drop and give me twenty, airMAAAAN! -- lol Moloch, i looked at your drawing, it works, except... in the series mode, if you put your selector in bridge only, you have no connection to the bridge. (no sound) and, regardless whether neck, or neck-and-bridge on the selector, series mode gets you both pups in series. so if you can live with that, you're OK. have you considered push-pull pot for volume and tone? you could have one do s/p on the 2 coils of the bridge, the other on the neck. and just have the selector do it's normal function. unk EDIT: you posted while i was writing mine so: ...Are pickups usually wired together in parallel with the coils in series? yes, the standard configuration is: coils of the HB in series. HBs are then combined in parallel.
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moloch
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by moloch on Apr 26, 2006 9:24:04 GMT -5
Ok, so is having both pups in series a generally useable tone for most people, or is it like a phase switch sort of thing where in general it just sounds bad unless you have some preference for it in your tone? It should be a hotter output overall right? Would you be able to come up with a diagram that doesnt have the holes in it that mine does? I would go with another push pull in the volume, but Its not possible right now. Today is the only day I have to get this done, I don't own a soldering iron and I graduate out of this shop tomorrow. So a diagram that works in every position to switch the pups between series & parallel (the connection between them, not the coils) would be cool. Unless somebody convinces me that I should just connect the bridge to the push/pull to f k with its coils? I don't know. I have to go to class right now and I'm bringin the guitar in after chow. So I wont be able to reply by then and any diagrams posted in the meantime would be great. Please keep in mind that an actual diagram showing what goes where on the switch& whatnot would be a lot more helpful to me than a circuit schematic. I can read the schematics but I don't have a whole lot of time to convert it over to the guitar electronics and I'm not very proficient at doing that yet. thanks for help. pfc wells.
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Post by UnklMickey on Apr 26, 2006 12:58:28 GMT -5
Ok, so is having both pups in series a generally useable tone for most people, or is it like a phase switch sort of thing where in general it just sounds bad unless you have some preference for it in your tone? It should be a hotter output overall right?.... i think the most generally accepted description of series vs parallel is: "powerful and dark" vs "smooth and bright". many folks would use a parallel combo for chords and either neck or bridge alone for a solo. the series combo would be nice for a solo. if you need to wire it up today, and don't want the holes (i don't know how to fix them), it would probably make more sense to wire one of your pickups (i think neck would be a better choice) to switch s/p. i think JohnH did a s/p switch with a 3 way, but i can't remember if it had the bridge only hole, or if the series mode was both in series in ALL of the positions of the 3 way. unk
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moloch
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by moloch on Apr 26, 2006 13:36:57 GMT -5
%, I've got about 45 minutes here, does anybody know how to fix the hole in my diagram? I would like to put them both on a s/p switch for a nice solo boost. But otherwise I'm thinking put it on the bridge because then I can get a more balanced output between the bridge & neck when I combine them with the bridge in parallel. The output on my PAFPro is already low enough, I think I would get more use out of cleaning up the output of my dimebucker on occasion. edit: also, in my current diagram, down on the push/pull is standard parallel config right? eidt2: what if i just put a wire connecting the bottom right pole of the switch to the bridge selector? Also I can see now that I have the switch backwards, with the down position as parallel. Would placing that connecting wire coming off of the series link in the switch f k up the circuit? it seems like it would just provide the series output to the switch when the push/pull is in series mode. and do nothing when its parallel. At the worst I think it would just take the bridge input and ignore the neck even when its in series, but at least it would allow for a smooth transition to the series mode. I think I'll just try it.
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Post by JohnH on Apr 26, 2006 16:06:24 GMT -5
i think JohnH did a s/p switch with a 3 way, but i can't remember if it had the bridge only hole, or if the series mode was both in series in ALL of the positions of the 3 way. unk It is on te LP maximiser, on the schematics section. The third pole of the S/P switch makes sure tha the 3-way is fully out of circuit in series mode, and it does not matter what position it is in John
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moloch
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 25
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Post by moloch on Apr 26, 2006 19:04:07 GMT -5
alright...something isnt right. Linking the bridge selector to the jumper on the push/pull just %ed up the phasing so I cut that. Now with the switch up (which i thought would be series but is in fact parallel) I can't use the neck pup, and with the switch down I cant use the bridge. Also the bridge pup sounds like its being coil split, its weak as hell. I can't see a % thing wrong with my wiring except that I wired the switch backwards (series down and parallel up). Everything else is just as it should be. So whats the deal? Edit: I think i mixed up the wires for the neck & bridge. I guess on my 3way toggle, whne the switch is down it pushes one side of the switch away from the center, I thought the plate that it was pushing away was the connection being used...but I suppose not.I suppose I'll just order a soldering iron as it would be a pain in the butt to bring this thing back into the shop again. And that way I can continue to f k with it whenver i feel like. ugh. damn I hate it when i screw things up.
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Post by sumgai on Apr 27, 2006 2:25:16 GMT -5
moloch, That's because you're in a hurry. You stated earlier that you don't own a soldering iron of your own, and that you were using the one available to you as a student, in your school shop. Fine. Now that you've had a taste of how to solder, and presumably you got out of there without burning the place down, why don't you celebrate by trotting down the local Radio Shabby and snatching up a $10 cheapie soldering iron? Then you could practice on your own, and do the job on your guitar properly, without worrying about the bleepin' time. (RS also has some nicer ones for less than $25, if you're flush with power. ) I realize you were under the gun for that short amount of time, but even in the Armed Forces, you're gonna learn an important lesson about fixing things - "If you don't have the time to do it right, where are you gonna find the time to correct your mistakes?" Moral: take your time, and you'll be a much happier camper after you're done..... all of us here guarantee it. ;D sumgai p.s. I too am a PFC...... a Proud F#####n Civilian!
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Post by UnklMickey on Apr 27, 2006 15:49:18 GMT -5
"I suppose I'll just order a soldering iron as it would be a pain in the butt to bring this thing back into the shop again. And that way I can continue to % with it whenver i feel like." sounds like a plan! and next time, slow down and figure it out thouroughly on paper first. then do the wiring slowly and methodically. F.W.I.W. it's easier to do something right, then to have to explain why you didn't.that's good advice for work. i feel my hobbies also benefit from the same kind of attitude. unk
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