Help wiring 80s MIJ Squier! Please help!!

[randallsavage]

I have dug around the internet for a few weeks now, emailed fender and FujiGen, and asked around to everyone I could find with a guitar! To get help wiring up a mid 80s E series MIJ Squier. So far no dice.

My issue is that the particular model I have isn't online in diagrams or really anywhere other than for sale on a few sites.

It's an HSS Strat with 1 volume and 1 tone, with 3 individual mini toggles that control the individual pickups. The 2 pots are 500k.

The neck PU has a red and a white wire, middle has a blue and a white. The bridge humbucker has a single brown wire that contains a red, white, and a bare wire inside it. There is a black ground wire that connects to the tremolo.

I have picked up 3 mini toggles that are 6 prong on/on/on. Can some one PLEASE help me out with this as I am completely uneducated on this and would really love to play my Christmas gift!



Any and all help is GREATLY appreciated!! and a pre thank you for your time!!

[frets]

Hi Randall

This is the one I have in my files.

[randallsavage]

Jan 3, 2021 15:53:03 GMT -5 frets said:

Hi Randall

This is the one I have in my files.

I would kiss you through the internet if I could!!! Thank you, that looks bang on.

If i can bither you further, what does the switch with the "on/off/tap" stand for and will my on/on/on switches suffice? And what about replacing the capacitor? ...annnd what are the questions on that picture for? Sorry lots of questions! You are awesome though! And thank you!!!!

[frets]

Randall,

I collect diagrams and this is just one of those. My bad, I should have taken out all those descriptions. Just ignore the descriptions, the diagram is good, the guy who wrote on it was just explaining his problems, so please disregard all of the comments.

You’ve got an on/on/on to the Bridge and will need On/Off’s for the Middle and Neck in lieu of the on on on’s you bought for those. The Bridge On On On is for the Coil Split to the Bridge.


And about the cap, most people nowadays go with a 22nF cap (aka .022). You can go with a .047 which will be a darker tone (if you like that).

Unfortunately, you’ll have to buy the on/off’s.

[newey]

Randall-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Before you start wiring, we need to look a bit closer at the diagram frets provided. It appears to have the right components, but I have questions concerning the wiring. There are some poorly-defined light grey lines which may be jumper wires; if not, I'm not seeing how this would work properly. OTOH, if these do represent wires, then the whole thing is way more complex than it needs to be.

As just one example, if the switches for the neck and middle pickups are simple On-Off switches, there would be no need to wire those two switches together, as the diagram shows. At the bridge, the switch is supposed to split the HB to single coil vs. full HB, and I'm not seeing that.

Maybe someone else can make better sense of this diagram than I can, let's await further input.

[randallsavage]

Jan 4, 2021 8:12:38 GMT -5 newey said:

Randall-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

Before you start wiring, we need to look a bit closer at the diagram frets provided. It appears to have the right components, but I have questions concerning the wiring. There are some poorly-defined light grey lines which may be jumper wires; if not, I'm not seeing how this would work properly. OTOH, if these do represent wires, then the whole thing is way more complex than it needs to be.

As just one example, if the switches for the neck and middle pickups are simple On-Off switches, there would be no need to wire those two switches together, as the diagram shows. At the bridge, the switch is supposed to split the HB to single coil vs. full HB, and I'm not seeing that.

Maybe someone else can make better sense of this diagram than I can, let's await further input.

Those are for sure jumper wires and that's part of what made me very confused when trying to rewire it? I have pictures of the inside and wiring if it will help. I just don't know how to send it to you or post it here?

Also I read on a random web page somewhere that the rear coil is split. Does that affect the jumpers on all switches?

[newey]

Randall-

There is a tutorial on posting images here

There are several different ways to do this, but basically the image has to be hosted elsewhere. Pictures, if well- focused, may be of help. But, if the grey wires on frets' diagram are indeed jumpers, this looks like it will work, although there seem to be a lot of redundant wires.

The diagram depicts the HB as being a 3-wire HB, which are fairly rare birds nowadays. Is that what you have?

[randallsavage]

Yes, it is a 3 wire HB. Brown coating with a red, white, and bare wire inside. I'll use imgur or something and upload some decent pics in a few minutes.

[randallsavage]

Here's some pics. I don't know what is important so I just grabbed ones o thought would help

80s Mij Fender Squier Contemporary Strat wiring imgur.com/gallery/WDBX33H

[newey]

OK, now I'm confused. You had said you needed help wiring up the guitar, but it looks like you already have it wired? The pix don't help much, hard to see what goes where, but if it's already wired, is it not working properly? What, exactly isn't working?

[randallsavage]

That is how I recieved the guitar. The neck and bridge PUs did nothing and the HB played but only had decent sound in the on position.

I have made the tactical error of unwiring it and assuming I could re wire with diagrams on the net.....Fender got back to me yesterday and said that they can be of no help as they only have a database reaching back to 1993.....so I'm just in here soldering away hoping for the best as the wire colors don't exactly match up and the previous work was a bit shotty so I think the seller tinkered with it and failed at whatever the goal was.

[newey]

Do you believe that the pickups are original to the guitar? And, do you have a multimeter?

My thinking here is as follows: The neck and middle pickups each have a white wire. We can assume those are the "ground" wires, while the "hot" wires are colored differently to indicate that the middle pickup is reverse-wound (If those assumptions are wrong, one of you pickups will end up out-of-phase and you'll have to swap its wires around).

But the bridge pickup is a bit of a conundrum. Typically, a bare wire indicates a shield/ground wire that is meant to reduce noise, not to carry signal from the pickup- it is just attached to the baseplate. But, then again, some older HBs did use a shield wire to carry signal, but usually that was a braided wire that surrounded the "hot" wire.

So, on your guitar, the HB has a 3-position switch meant to give full HB/off/split coil. If the bare wire is only a shield, then you have a 2-wire HB- red and white wires carry the signal. If so, such a HB cannot be split to a single coil. If this is the case, then the bridge HB, at least, is not original to the guitar. (This might also explain why there were issues with the HB).

OTOH, if the bare wire serves as both a shield and the signal "ground", then you have a three-wire HB, and one of the 2 wires is the "hot" and the other is to split the coils. A multimeter would tell us which it is, that's why I asked if you had one.

Your pictures seem to show that both the white HB and the bare wire are grounded to the back of the pot, and the red wire goes to the switch? If so, no coil splitting can be happening.

[randallsavage]

I just ordered a multimeter and should get it sometime today or tomorrow. And I do think the PUs are original to this guitar. I will get the multi and test asap

[newey]

To test the pickups with your new meter, you will need to disconnect them first, if not already disconnected. To test:

1) Set the meter to the Ohms setting, 20K ohms if it's not an auto-ranging meter.

2) Test for resistance readings between all three wires, i.e., red to white, red to bare, white to bare.

3) Post all 3 results.

If you get a resistance reading of around 8-9KΩ (or higher) between the red and white wires, and infinite resistance (often shown as "OR" or "out-of-range" on the meter), then you have a 2-wire HB, the bare wire is just a shield, and the HB cannot be split.

If you get a reading between either the red or white and the bare wire of around 8-9KΩ (or higher), and a reading of around 4K between the other wire and the bare wire, it's a three wire HB which can be split- and then we just have to figure out which coil is which.

Also, in the event the above testing shows it's a 3-wire HB, and if all three pickups are not wired in, place the neck and middle pickups face-to-face with their pole pieces touching. If they attract, the middle pickup is reverse wound. Then do the same with the neck and middle pickup with each bridge coil- which bridge coil attracts the neck, which the middle? This will tell us which coil to split to.

[randallsavage]

Okay, connecting the red and white wires of the HB reads from 3.88 - 3.93.

Connecting bare wire and red wire gets 7.74 - 7.84

Bare wire and white wire gets 3.86 - 3.90

Neither of the single coils show a reading.

I used an auto voltmeter.

The wores are run through very narrow canals in the body but I will try to check their magnetism asap.

Also the pots are food to go
Tone shows 679 even though it's a 500k? There is a green cap on this one like in the diagram above.

Volume shows 519 even though it's the same as the other pot.

[newey]

As to the pots, most guitar suppliers and manufacturers use pots that are made to only a 20% tolerance, plus or minus. So, a 500K pot could be anywhere from 400K to 600K and still get shipped out. Your tone pot is not within spec- was it disconnected when you measured it?

So, although it's odd to have a bare wire as a signal-carrying wire, your testing shows it is indeed a 3-wire HB. The bare wire goes to ground, the red is the "hot", and the white wire is the sereis junction between the 2 coils which is used to split them.

If the pickups are already mounted, don't take them out to check the magnetic polarity, a toy compass or a simple magnet can be used- or another pickup, if you have one lying about.

Assuming that the neck and middle are reverse wound with respect to each other for hum-cancelling (they probably are, based on the wire colors), then the question becomes which coil of the HB do you want to split to, as far as hum-cancelling goes. One HB coil will be hum-cancelling with the middle pickup, the other with the neck, so do you think you will play more with the bridge split together with the neck (Tele-ish), or with the middle,, like on a regular Strat?

BTW, with that bare wire carrying signal, I recommend wrapping it with electrical tape for insulation, so that it doesn't inadvertently contact any of your other wiring once you reassemble everything.

I will draw up a more streamlined diagram than the one you have, it has some unnecessary wiring. Every extra wire is a potential point of failure, so minimizing unneeded connections is always a good thing

[newey]

Also, you have the On-On-On for the Bridge pickup. Did you get On-Off switches for the other 2, or On-On? (The diagram shows On-On switches being used, but we can work with either type here, I need to know before I do a diagram, though.)

[newey]

Here is my take on this wiring, simplified, omitting a lot of redundant jumper wires. Unlike fret's diagram above, this one is shown from the back of the guitar(since this is the way we wire things).

This uses On-On switches for the neck and middle, but On-Offs could be used, they will look different but the wiring is basically the same. In fact, you don't even need double-pole switches for the neck and middle pickups, those could be SPDT switches (which are cheaper).

Also note that, if you decide you want the other bridge coil to be the one that is split, then on SW-3, remove the blue jumper wire between lugs 2 and 5, and wire lug 2 to the back of one of the pots. (Again, some testing to know which coil is which will be needed before we can make that decision.)

[ashcatlt]

That does leave one coil of the HB hanging from hot when it is split. I think () if you move the red wire to that same throw on the other pole, then move the white wire to where the red one was, you end up with off/on/split and not hanging coil.

Also, the OP said they’ve got all three as on/on/on. Pretty sure that just means each of the SCs have two off positions. You could have two on positions by using the other pole. BUT if you wired those like phase switches, you could get ON/OFF/OoP.

[randallsavage]

I have 3 on/on/on and the original switches also, so I can wire it up like your diagram for sure. I'm a bit lost as far as the recommendations from the fellow after you but I'm inclined to try both methods when I get time after work tonight.

Thank you all for your help so far! I appreciate your time!!

Fender did give me the model number for this Squier, 027-6800, it seems to be missing on most websites of they happen to make a mention of it.

[newey]

Yeah, that can be fixed. But I didn't think that it was a hanging coil if it was shorted to itself???

In any event, he may end up wanting the other coil anyway. We still don't know which is which.

As to the switches, Randall, I assumed you were taking frets' advice and getting 2-position switches. But if you want to use the 3-position ones, ashcatlt is right, you could have out of phase settings, kinda similar to the Brian May wiring.

[ashcatlt]

The split position is not shorting that coil. The red wire is not connected to anything at all, while the white wire is connected to the hot output. This splits it to the “bottom coil” but leaves the “top coil” hanging. To split to the top coil instead is going to take some real reconfigurations.

[randallsavage]

I'm punching well above my weight with all of the information you guys are providing. I do appreciate it though! I do have bith sets of switches, the original and new 3 ways also. I'm probably being redundant but can you guy give me the short bus instructional? If you have time. I think I can get it done with a diagram and solder it all up i just don't want to have to redo it as I'm pretty burnt out after a good month plus of trying to get this puppy playing.

[randallsavage]

I'll snag a magnet and try to check the coils tonight, I didn't wanna ruin another set of strings to get it working so I'm glad this is an option.

[newey]

Randall-

We'll walk you through this. First step is to decide on the coils, as discussed, I may then have to make a change to the diagram depending on which one you want.

Ashcatlt's concern about the hanging coil is just that it can potentially be a source of noise. Or, maybe not, but we try to avoid having hanging coils where possible.

[randallsavage]

Okay, the neck and front coil of the HB share the same polarity. And the middle and rear coil of the HB share a common polarity.

Also FujiGen responded that they could be of no help today also.....I'm honestly surprised that a company as massive as Fender is going to tell me they can't help with their guitar...

[newey]

All good, although we still don't know which HB coil is the "top" one in the stack.

Does it matter to you whether the middle pickup or the neck will be hum-cancelling with the HB in single coil? If it doesn't matter, then things get easy. If it matters, or if you care whether you get the bridge-most coil when the HB is split, then we'll need to do some further testing.

[randallsavage]

I don't mind which is which, easy works for me. I just wanna play at this point to be honest. So unless the playability or sound of the guitar gets butchered one way vs the other I don't mind how it works so long as it does

[newey]

Jan 8, 2021 17:54:00 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

To split to the top coil instead is going to take some real reconfigurations.

He's right on that. Here are your options, Randall, given that you don't care which coil gets split from the HB.

First, you can use my first diagram above. This is set up so that the HB switch operates: Full HB/Center=Off/Single Coil. However, there is a slight risk that, because the top coil is "hanging from hot" in the split position, it might produce some noise.

Or, you can split to the other HB coil. This eliminates the hanging coil issue, but changes the order of the HB switching: Full HB/Center=Single Coil/Off.

Here's V2.0:


Strictly your choice which way you go. If it were me, I'd go for the second version, since it eliminates the hanging coil, and I'd prefer the "off" position to be at the end of the switch, since a quick flip of a toggle switch is more likely to end at the extremes of the switch rather than in the center position. But assuming the stock wiring was as per frets' diagram, this is a change from the stock set-up.

So, you decide.

[randallsavage]

Shitchyea! I'm gonna heat up the ole soldering iron right meow!!
Thank you again!!