newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Apr 21, 2021 14:01:43 GMT -5
I am building a one piece strat
The neck will be 22mm thick and nut end 18mm and 1.5..mm thinner than standard
all wood 1/4 sawn. thumb joint a bit arthritic
neck sections are Walnut then either side Oak.
Will I need to add additional strengthening either titanium or carbon rods on either side of truss rod
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Apr 21, 2021 22:50:32 GMT -5
“either side oak.”
Oak seems like a super hard wood... how could you bend oak with a truss rod? Guitar necks are anti-oak, in my lowly opinion.
|
|
|
|
Post by blademaster2 on Apr 22, 2021 10:15:40 GMT -5
Maybe the neck would need to be thinner, as I have seen with maple necks, to provide the flexibility needed.
Perhaps the most concerning aspect of oak is the open grain, which might not feel as smooth to your hand.
|
|
newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Apr 22, 2021 12:55:03 GMT -5
Hi
Thanks for the reply
The neck will be thinner than normal about 5mm to 7mm at least so I chose two thin strips of oak about 15mm wide on each side with the middle in walnut 22mm wide then reduced to width but 1.5 mm thinner. i have tested the neck and it does flex but not much by about 1 to 2mm, but over time with the strings it will deform so the truss rod will do its work. As for needing additional strength in the neck being thinner than usual I need advice.
For the grain structure you can get very fine grain filler that does not show as I currently use on wooden models for slight imperfections once its rubbed down but I don't expect this to be the case with the guitar.I will be working up to 600 grid sandpaper then switch to wet and dry.
The guitar will have at least 5 to 7 coats of varnish with each coat wire-wooled between coats and wet and dry paper also as I have done on oak furniture previously and this leaves a very smooth high gloss finish like a mirror.
If I need titanium rods, do I resin then or cut to a push fit same as the truss rod.
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Apr 22, 2021 14:59:30 GMT -5
newbe, so considering that oak is wavy grained, walnut is straight grained, and straight grained wood is easier to bend than wavy grained wood... would it be rough on your neck’s glue to bend/adjust? I don’t know, but it seems that making a bendable guitar neck with two separate guitar woods may cause the woods to separate? You are obviously very skilled in wood creation. I don’t mean to change your mind. Just trying to learn.  (Especially since the layers of glue are perpendicular to the bend.) —- resources: wavy/straight grained www.realsimple.com/home-organizing/decorating/different-types-wood?slide=a2c57fbe-d5be-484b-bdb6-a525c94fe3c2#a2c57fbe-d5be-484b-bdb6-a525c94fe3c2wood bending www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/usda/ah125.pdfEDIT: Sigh, sorry, I have failed to find that struck-through statement in that document. It just says that straight grained wood is less likely to fail in bending than cross grained wood. And you aren’t really actually “bending” the wood into a U shape; I’m very sorry I made up that statement while being sick. 😔 But, the layers of glue being perpendicular to the bend may cause problems? I’m just pointlessly worried about your extremely nice neck from breaking apart. God bless your efforts.
|
|
newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Apr 23, 2021 7:46:19 GMT -5
Thanks for your reply.
The neck should flex as one piece, but I take your point.
I have previously bend different hardwoods glued in very thin strips and had no problems, also have steam bent and glued as well with no problems when I use to build canoes, so I have assumed a guitar neck would be ok, but time will tell. Glue used is normally stronger than the wood and I have not had any delamination of the glue in the past.
The oak and walnut was quarter sawn with the oak grain both running the same direction and the walnut in the other direction. Once I have shaped the neck, not much of oak will be left.
I will be doing more research now, but my question still the same about titanium rods.
|
|
|
|
Post by newey on Apr 23, 2021 8:11:05 GMT -5
Newbe- Understand first off that I have never bult a guitar neck from scratch, and your knowledge of woodworking is vastly superior to mine. So, what I'm going to say is more drawn from a common-sense approach, take it for what you will. cynical1 is our guru on this sort of stuff, but he isn't around very often anymore. If he sees this thread, hopefully he will have some words of real wisdom. But you are clearly very knowledgeable, and the fact that you are asking the question of whether added reinforcing will be needed tells me that it is a real concern of yours. It is also clear that you will be putting a lot of time and effort into this build, and I assume that you want the end product to be a guitar that you will be able to play for years to come. So, do a cost-benefit analysis. On the one side of the equation is the cost and labor you will put into building the neck without the addded rods; on the other side is the added labor of installing the rods, plus the cost of the rods themselves. To the first side of the equation, you must also add the risk of breakage, and the cost/labor of having to redo the neck if worse comes to worst. My gut instinct would tell me, when you consider all that, the cost of the rods and the added labor to install them is smaller than the risks and costs of not doing so. So, install the rods and be of a peaceful mind. |
|
newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Apr 23, 2021 14:23:40 GMT -5
Thank you for your comments.
Running the router when I cut the truss rod grove will only take additional couple of hours of setting up time with the jig I made.
I will install the titanium rods. just one thing I have never worked with titanium so do I make a tight fit or glue them in place.
My next job is cutting in the truss and titanium rods before I rough form the neck.
|
|
newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Apr 23, 2021 14:47:04 GMT -5
Just one more thing
do I install flat or on edge. 450mm X 6mm X 2.5mm
My instinct is to install flat but I may be wrong
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Apr 23, 2021 14:58:32 GMT -5
just one thing I have never worked with titanium so do I make a tight fit or glue them in place. Hi again! 😀 Um, obviously, I’ve never created a neck either. But, StewMac is a great guitar parts company; and on their titanium truss rod page: www.stewmac.com/luthier-tools-and-supplies/materials/truss-rods/non-adjustable-rods-for-neck-reinforcement/titanium-neck-reinforcement-rod.htmlthey say this: Note: that page also suggests that it can be good to install other rods like you were talking about. Very helpful read; you should check it out. EDIT: ooh, that site links to a page in their non-adjustable-rods-for-neck-reinforcement folder... so maybe that won’t help you? I’m sorry I dunno. But, maybe StewMac has a titanium truss rod page? Gtg now. Thank you for your explanation! 👍😀 |
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Apr 23, 2021 16:59:56 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by unreg on Apr 23, 2021 17:46:43 GMT -5
They have a steel truss rod page, if you are interested. this page was found by tapping the Trade Secrets bar on their steel square truss rod page: www.stewmac.com/video-and-ideas/trade-secrets/strengthening-a-square-tube-martin-truss-rod.htmlThey turn the neck vertical to insert the glue, but your truss rod will be titanium so maybe it won’t need glue. Ok.. I’ll stop posting here. 🙂 EDIT: It’s an acoustic guitar and I doubt Martin used Walnut/Oak necks... so this post is probably a waste... sorry. 😔 |
|
|
|
Post by gckelloch on Jun 19, 2021 18:34:36 GMT -5
Just one more thing do I install flat or on edge. 450mm X 6mm X 2.5mm My instinct is to install flat but I may be wrong Did you end up installing them flat or on edge? I'd think it would be pretty hard to adjust the neck if on edge. I don't think you'd need glue. Wood glue would probably separate from the bars when the neck is adjusted. I'd just push them in flush with the surface. That what you did? |
|
newbe
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 36
Likes: 2
|
Post by newbe on Jan 29, 2022 15:33:52 GMT -5
The titanium bars were installed edge on and a tight fit. I have done some adjustments with the truss rod and it works ok. The guitar is now finished and I have given it to my Great grandson to learn with.
|
|
|
|
Post by cynical1 on Jan 30, 2022 1:34:08 GMT -5
Oak will be fine, structurally, for a neck. Oak has an irregular grain, so I don't know you'll like the feel...unless you use quite a bit of grain filler.
As far as titanium rods...unless you're doing a 6 string long scale bass, they can be overkill. The U-Channel Stew-Mac truss rod is a good compromise.
Why oak, if I may ask?
HTC1
|
|
