Les Paul custom 3 pickup switch

[bluebeetle]

Hi all -

I recently acquired a 1976 Les Paul Custom with 3 pickups. It also has 2 mini-switches that the original owner installed for coil-tapping. Here's my question:

Is there any way to wire the guitar so that I can select each pickup individually? I want to be able to select bridge only, middle only, and neck only, preferably using the main Gibson toggle switch (I have no interest in having 2 pickups active simultaneously, or coil-splitting, etc.). It sounds so easy, but my guitar tech says it's not possible. He claims I can only select bridge+middle, all 3, and middle+neck using the main Gibson toggle switch (that's how it's currently wired, with volume pots for each pickup). He says that I could also use mini-switches to turn on/off 2 of the pickups and install a push-pull pot to activate the 3rd pickup, but that means that I'd be messing around with 2 switches (or 1 switch and 1 pot) to change pickups!

Ugh. Anyway, any help would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[djhollowman]

Hi, I see what you mean. You would think a "3 position switch" could control 3 pickups individually, but alas no. I had the same issue on my Westone Spectrum. (It has a push/pull for the middle pickup on/off.) Assuming you don't want to change the appearance of your guitar you could change one of the tone pots to a vol pot, giving you 3 vols pots, and wire each pickup to its own volume pot - thus having the abilty to select each by volume. I think that would work.....! Perhaps someone more knowledgable could assist here?
Check out the wiring diagrams here:
www.guitarelectronics.com/category/wiringresources.22pickupdiagrams/
There's a couple that look promising under "Three Pickup Guitar Diagrams" called "3 HB Les Paul w/3 volumes" and "3 HB Les Paul w/ p/p switch"
Other than that, it may be a case of looking at different switches.

BTW, welcome to the forum!
Derek
.

[bluebeetle]

Actually, that's exactly what I have now (3 pickups, each with its own volume pot). However, I hate having to turn one volume pot up and the other one down.

I did a little research and found this switch at GuitarElectronics.com:

www.guitarelectronics.com/c=du94Ejpaj0QznVehYU2TpAhED/product/SWT33

It looks like it might be an acceptable solution, but I'm not sure.

[UnklMickey]

hi Bluebeetle,

i won't say that switch can't work.

but i'm pretty sure it won't, at least the way it is now.

i've modified some of them before, by adding leaves and insulators from an "organ donor" switch.

(but not to get what you are trying to do.)

the left side of that switch, looks like a stock LP.

the right side is a bit different.


if the lever is in the center, or on the left, the bottom of the lever doesn't affect the normally closed contact of the left side of the switch.

but if the lever is pushed to the right, the bottom of the lever pushes the left contacts open, disconnecting the pickup that's connected to the left side.


now let's look at the right side.

the two contacts closest to the frame on the right side are connected when the lever is in the middle or pushed to the right.

when the lever is pushed to the left the contact is broken to the inner leaf, and made to the outer leaf (of the right side).

that switch can be made to do a few different things, but it looks like, not 1 pup only in each position.

so i don't have a solution for you with a LP style lever switch.

the best i can do is just a bit of information.



most people don't want to use rotary switches, but one would fit the bill (electrically) here.


unk

[djhollowman]

Wouldn't it be useful if you got a 3-way toggle that you could move up and down as well? Like a joystick, you could have 5 positions: up, down, left, right and centre! Somebody invent one please!

[bluebeetle]

Someone told me about a SP3T mini-switch. I realize it's not as cool as the main toggle switch, but would it work?

[UnklMickey]

djhollowman said:

Wouldn't it be useful if you got a 3-way toggle that you could move up and down as well? Like a joystick, you could have 5 positions: up, down, left, right and centre! Somebody invent one please!

well if you're going that far, why not go all the way!

3 across X 3 up/down = 9 positions!


and for a strat 5 position, if we expand to 2 axes, that would be 25!

now all you need is a roadmap.


unk

[UnklMickey]

bluebeetle said:

Someone told me about a SP3T mini-switch. I realize it's not as cool as the main toggle switch, but would it work?

if it truly is a SP3T, yes. (i've never seen one yet, but maybe they do exist.)

i might guess thet are talking about a single pole, 3 position switch.

that could be an on-off-on, or it could be an on-on-on (functionally the same as a standard LP switch)



unk

[bluebeetle]

Here's the SP3T I was talking about:

www.acmeguitarworks.com/Gold-Mini-Switch-SP3T-On-On-On-Miyama-P57C11.aspx

I was also wondering if it's possible to make the main LP toggle switch modular. That is, could it go from bridge, bridge/middle, middle then middle, middle/neck, neck using a mini-switch? I feel like it should work.

[UnklMickey]

if that switch ad had a picture, you would be able to tell.

if it was like the ones i described, there would only be 3 lugs.

if it is the one, that will do what you need, it would have 4.


alas, no photo.


why not send an e-mail to their tech department and ask them to clarify?



i'll think about the modularization scheme, and see what might be possible.



unk

[UnklMickey]

bluebeetle said:

...I was also wondering if it's possible to make the main LP toggle switch modular. That is, could it go from bridge, bridge/middle, middle then middle, middle/neck, neck using a mini-switch? I feel like it should work.

your instincts were right, on that.

a DPDT mini-toggle, or push-pull can make that happen.

[bluebeetle]

Um, any idea how to wire it properly? My feelings are strong, my skills are weak

[UnklMickey]

bluebeetle said:

Um, any idea how to wire it properly? My feelings are strong, my skills are weak

sure,

i'll put a drawing together for you tomorrow. (unless someone else does it tonight.)


time to pull the plug, see y'all tomorrow.

unk

[wolf]

bluebeetle
I believe I must have been the person to tell you about the SP3T toggle switch. They do exist but they are much rarer than I thought.
I know you posted one link well here's another:
performanceunlimited.com/cobravalley/toggleswitches.html
Those switches are designed for high current automotive applications but I think it should work in a guitar. The only trouble might be the switch "action" might be a lot "tougher" than a regular guitar switch.
You might find an acceptable alternative to what you want would be this circuit: www.1728.com/guitar3.htm
(Scroll down to the "3 Pickup Guitar" heading).
It uses an easy-to-find SPDT center-on switch and gives you the choices of Neck Only / All Three / and Bridge only.
How's that?

[sumgai]

blue,

Hi, and to the forums!

As you've already heard, there's no way for this switch to accomplish your goals. The reason is simple - the leaves (contacts) are arranged such that there's no way to shut off two out of three pickups in any one position.

Normally, moving the toggle handle to one side breaks the connection for the pickup on the other side. What you want is the opposite, you want to move the handle and *make* the connection for the pup on that side - quite a different job, given the construction of this type of switch. Additionally, moving the switch to either side must break the connection for the middle pup, instead of making that connection.

That's a tall order there, partner. I honestly don't think that anyone has ever built a set of leaves (contacts) that can accomplish this goal.

As unk pointed out, this is a job for a rotary switch. Excepting the different knob, no other visible modifications need be made to your ax. Do consider it, won't you? The headaches you save could be your own! ;D


sumgai

[jhng]

One solution might be to have the toggle doing "Neck, Neck and Bridge, Bridge" like on a Les Paul

together with push/pull that switches on the Middle, and switches off the Neck and Bridge pups.

That's about as close as you can get to what you want without using a rotary switch, I reckon.

Hastings

[wolf]

Don't settle for that rotary switch just yet !!!

The type of switch is the DPDT on/on/on type you'll find on the first page of my guitar website section www.1728.com/guitar.htm
This in effect is a different method of a SP3T switch.
Have I succeeded? ;D
Feel free to award Karma points generously.

In the words of Inspector Clousseau, "Once again I have failed where others have succeeded."

[jhng]

Very clever! I wish I'd thought of that....

Hastings

[RJB]

Wolf,
I've worked on electronics for 2 decades and I've yet to come across those switches before. However a 2 minute search at Digikey, and there they are +400 in stock! Granted $9/ea is a bit steep, but if you need it. well worth it. Plus points for clever wiring.

[bluebeetle]

Wow, that is awesome, wolf! Thanks so much. Is this the switch you're talking about?

www.guitarelectronics.com/product/SWM23

Now the question is whether or not my guitar tech is capable of setting this up. It looks pretty simple, but he was so adamant about it being "impossible" that I wonder if he'll have some new excuse!

[UnklMickey]

note: the entire first half of this reply has been edited, to more accurately convey the message that was originally intended.


Wolf,

congratulations!

that seems to fit what bluebeetle was asking for ... EXACTLY!


but, IMHO asking for karma doesn't quite feel right.

there's nothing to be ashamed about, with the karma numbers you now have.

you haven't been quite as active on the forum as you once were, but you have indeed contributed a few "pearls" even after karma was initiated.

i think we should ignore the numbers we have, and concentrate on helping people.

let the joy of helping others be it's own reward.



if one DID want to get high karma numbers they should:

help as many people as possible.

come up with lots of innovative ideas and post them to the schematics page.

be extremely polite, especially when contradicting someone who has gone astray by quoting incorrect facts and/or misinterpreting a concept.

show absolutely no signs of egotism.

act like karma is totally irrelavant. just try to help people.

i've done some of those things. but other items aren't natural to my personality.

i have fairly a karma level, but there's someone else who has a level twice as high as mine.

and i'm in no way jealous. i'm just glad to know him, and proud of his successes.

i don't feel slighted in the least.

the numbers are completely appropriate.

but, the numbers aren't all that important, at least not to me.



my advice to you, and everyone else on these boards would be:

go back to the reasons you came in the first place. to help others.

(okay, so clowning around and showing off once in a while is another reason. and there's nothing wrong with enjoying the personal satifaction of ones own successes, either.)

never miss an opportunity to exalt when it is appropriate.

(i admit, i have not been nearly as active in issuing exalts as i was when karma was first put into effect.)

and if you think your numbers are a little low, don't take it personally. sometimes people forget about the exalt thing.



by all means, enjoy. -- +1 Wolf. you did well.

but more than that, enjoy your success coming up with an answer to a problem.

and the satifaction of knowing, someone will benefit from it.




________________________________________________________________________


Bluebeetle,

i assume Wolf has you covered with this so i won't go any further on drawing up plan B.

(the DPDT to shift the pickup selection on the 3way)



unk

[bluebeetle]

Actually unk, I'd love to see what you came up with if it's not too much trouble. I'll probably end up trying one, then the other.

[UnklMickey]

no problem at all if you're not in a hurry.

my schedule today just exploded.

i was planning to show 3 drawings.

one that would be as things are now.

the next would be to do the "shift" you asked for.

the third would be to just exchange the middle for one of the pickups.


am i right to assume that the current wiring has 3 volumes (reverse wired so if one of the volumes is set at zero, it won't kill the signal from the other pickup(s)?

or do you have a single volume control?


i'd like to keep things simple and just draw the portion where you will be making a change.




unk

[bluebeetle]

Right now I have the main toggle switch hooked up normally, and the middle pickup is always on. All three pickups have separate volume control. I don't know about the reverse wired, but setting any pickup volume to zero has no effect on the others. The mini-switches are disconnected and do nothing.

[UnklMickey]

bluebeetle said:

...I don't know about the reverse wired, but setting any pickup volume to zero has no effect on the others. ...

okay, i have all the info i need to do an appropriate drawing.


FWIW, your controls are "reverse wired". they are "independent".


unk

[sumgai]

Well, bless my soul, and here I thought that bluebeetle wanted the pup selector switch to be the same kind, and in the same location as originally installed by Gibson.

.... preferably using the main Gibson toggle switch

Guess that goes to show what I know, eh?

blue, if you're willing to give up your preference, then Wolf's suggestion has great merit. It even means that you won't have to shield the switch cavity on that upper bout, there won't be any signals running out there and back.


sumgai

[bluebeetle]

I admit it would be great to use the main toggle switch, which is why I'm curious about what unk has come up with. However, Wolf's wiring scheme does exactly what I want, and I can certainly live with a mini-switch controlling everything.

[UnklMickey]

hi bluebeetle,

let me start out with a few disclaimers.

i'm mostly, but not 100%, certain your wiring will look like this.

and i am almost entirely certain that the pots are not in the same places.

but their functions are labeled, so you can easily figure out how to do the modification.



_________________________________________________________________________________________________





first a drawing of what i expect your wiring looks like now:





__________________________________________________________________________________________________




next how it will be changed to do the "pickup shift" you requested:



you will move one wire from the each volume control (neck and bridge) to the DPDT. (center terminals)

you will add 1 wire from the each volume control (neck and bridge) to the DPDT.

you will add the diagonal jumper to the DPDT.

you will move the wire that connects the middle volume from the tone pot, to the DPDT.

if the spacing is right, between the middle and neck, or between the neck and middle, this thing might even quack.




_______________________________________________________________________________________





this is simpler, and just exchanges the middle for the bridge:




________________________________________________________________________________________





and finally this one exchanges the middle for the neck:








___________________________________________________________________________________________





so between Wolf's solution that gives you what you originally asked for,

and these 3 choices, the hard part won't be the wiring.

it'll be making the decision.






good luck,

unk

[bluebeetle]

Man, this is so great. Thanks for all your help everyone.

Quick question: for the last 2 schematics, you only need a SPDT switch, correct?

[UnklMickey]

yes, for those you only need a SPDT.


on behalf of those who helped you, we appreciate your thanks.


but, now you owe us!


come visit often, and offer whatever help or opinions you can.

and/or

do a RandomHero impersonation:

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=coffee&thread=1135917686&post=1136502786

admin said:

Mine's pretty simple. I always try to be nice and do well by strangers I meet, sometimes even go out of my way. Things like gather up shopping carts from assenine locations for the Wal-Mart guy, hold doors open, smile and wave, that manner of thing. The fact is every time I do it, I hope to be just some random guy who does something nice, who, to the person I'm doing it for, is a total lifesaver.

Hence, RandomHero. =)

unk