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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 20, 2022 22:28:30 GMT -5
Alright Alright Alright, Now I'm *Definitely* working on this circuit. I just finished the body and neck. All I have left is this circuit! I'm going to try and get it done by April 29th! (End of April basically) All of you available to help me, I love you all, and respect you so much. Your knowledge, your politeness, and most of all your kindness is inspiring. Going to review the "ground circuit" now. That out of phase switch looks pretty tricky... Going to look at that probably at the end. Here's the schematic again:  |
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Post by newey on Apr 21, 2022 4:37:30 GMT -5
All of you available to help me, I love you all, and respect you so much. Your knowledge, your politeness, and most of all your kindness is inspiring. Don't go getting all mushy on us . . .  Seriously, this is a pretty complex bit, so go slow, check your work, test componenets before installing- all the usual admonitionions apply. I also suggest that you take Yogi B 's schematic and draw a wiring diagram from it before you start. Probably should label/number the poles of that phase switch as well. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 21, 2022 9:20:04 GMT -5
Aw sorry there newey. Mushy stuff = gone. *macho noises are made*. I'm definitely going to make a wiring diagram, I'm going to make the "grounding diagram" first, then take it from there! |
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Post by Yogi B on Apr 24, 2022 2:54:22 GMT -5
thedirestrat, sorry for sleeping on this thread, by way of apology here's my rendition of a wiring diagram. (I've made a few assumptions regarding the positioning of the controls — of particular note is the toggle switch is flipped upwards to give in phase, down for OoP, whereas you may want the opposite.) Also since it's been a while since I did the schematic, I'm more likely to have made mistakes converting it. (I'm not super happy with having four wires grounding on the tone pot, maybe it would be better to have the final connection to the jack coming from the volume pot... in fact, now I've mentioned it, I might just fix that...)
And to ease any potential debugging here's a copy of the schematic recoloured to match the wire colours used in the diagram.
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 25, 2022 14:58:11 GMT -5
Dear God Yogi, you just blew my mind.
I promised I’m not going to be mushy so I’ll keep it brief. But thank you. Thank you so much. Because after looking at that masterpiece I realized I more than likely wouldn’t be able to figure it out! You saved me you really did. I think I can get this circuit done this week for sure now, and I’ll have time to present my work. Of course if it’s not done, it’s not done, but I’ll try my best. For all of you who helped me, and for you Yogi so you can hopefully see your creation come to life.
Luckily I went through the circuit multiple times and understand a good part of it. I understand traditional wirings very well.
Now I got a couple of questions about the wiring, most notably about the grounding thing you mentioned!
There’s 6 things to ground I believe. And based off what I learned from the others, I think the best idea to ground all this would be to connect the grounds all together (get everything that needs to be grounded in one place), I twist the wires together, make sure the whole circuit works, then solder the ground wires together and then copper tape them to the “copper-taped” orange control cavity, thus grounding the shielding as well.
1. The capacitor with one of its legs soldered to the lip of the tone/blend pot and the pot casings. The tone pot is connected with the volume pot via the control plate and the volume pot has a jumper wire grounded from its lip (or I guess the lug where the jack ground is works too?) that goes to the common grounding point (so that’s one wire to bunch up together). The resistor leg gets soldered where the capacitor one is at.
2. The neck pickup cover and bridge assembly/baseplate/strings (shield grounds) are connected to the common ground spot by taking the neck pickup’s green wire and the bridge pickup’s green wire and twisting them with the other ground wires (producing a common grounding spot!)
3. The bridge pickup’s signal ground lead gets grounded as well at this spot.
4. The control plate, pickup switch and out of phase switch: plate grounded via shielding tape, pickup switch and out phase grounded by being on control plate.
The only thing I missed is the neck pickup, but since it’s leads are very unconventional, I’m pretty sure connecting them to the out of phase switch takes care of it’s signal grounding?
And yogi why are there grounds connected to the Pickup Switch? Did you just use it as a (not the main, but just “a”) common place to ground some ground wires?
Thank you again!
anyways,
It just goes to show you that great things, or at least pretty cool ones, are formed almost spontaneously— one guy has an out of the box idea, and he happens to meet people who are talented and ambitious enough to put it all together. The rest is history.
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 25, 2022 15:00:57 GMT -5
Oh yeah!
Using solely cloth 22 AWG wire is probably kind of hard for this wiring. What do you guys recommend? How about Plastic lower gauge (like 18?)? Is it ok if it’s lower, yeah right? Any good ones on Amazon?
thanks!
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 25, 2022 20:19:27 GMT -5
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 25, 2022 23:54:32 GMT -5
I highly doubt you'll need wire that thin for guitar wiring. Here's a 24AWG package with some useful extras for less: amzn.to/3rRLEp3 |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 26, 2022 9:58:31 GMT -5
I highly doubt you'll need wire that thin for guitar wiring. Here's a 24AWG package with some useful extras for less: amzn.to/3rRLEp3Thank you! The reason why I thought thin wire would be better is to fit in between the tiny terminals of the push pull pots and the 4PDT switch— but 24 AWG is 2 gauges thinner than the standard hookup wire gauge so I should be fine! Thanks gckelloch! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 28, 2022 21:00:06 GMT -5
Ok easy little question here guys for you to answer: My super switch doesn't fit in the cavity, so I need to Dremel a bit to open it up for it to fit. I just want to Dremel the right side lol, so what is the correct orientation of the switch so that position 3 (neck pickup) really IS position 3, the neck pickup, and thus the switch is facing the headstock. So is this the "correct" position of the switch on the control cavity? Or do I unscrew it and then it over, so the switch terminals are facing the left? Maybe this doesn't matter at all, but I just want to make sure!  Last thing for tonight: I'm going to present my guitar next week, and as I do not want to rush this complicated and exciting wiring, I'm going to only wire it as a standard "basic" Telecaster. So I'll use the neck pickup's 8 kohms coil and I'll use the "broadcaster" coil (10 kohm) tap. The unused taps will be taped together and have their metal tips taped off. Can I use the 3 way 4 pole super switch for a standard Telecaster wiring? Thanks! |
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Post by newey on Apr 29, 2022 6:20:57 GMT -5
So is this the "correct" position of the switch on the control cavity? From an electrical standpoint, the switch is symmetric, so it can go either way, the wiring will be the same. Yes. You'll only be using 2 poles of the switch, and you can just translate from any std Tele diagram to your switch no problem |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 9:40:30 GMT -5
Not worked with 3T but I think I could do a switch
I got a board for a 5T that lets you do 4P5+5T as I've not got the 4P bit working fully yet and the 2P 3/5T cogs need no changing I don't see why can't just put a board on it and it will be slim line
------
Get a cheap T-Type/Telecaster alpha three way and just change the PCB anyone can do it and means you got a switch that is about 15mm wide and works with yogi circuit there.
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 29, 2022 22:39:06 GMT -5
So is this the "correct" position of the switch on the control cavity? From an electrical standpoint, the switch is symmetric, so it can go either way, the wiring will be the same. Yes. You'll only be using 2 poles of the switch, and you can just translate from any std Tele diagram to your switch no problem I don’t know if it’s a magic power newey, but everytime you explain something to me, it seems so obvious. This is music to my ears! I’m going to start dremeling (CAREFULLY) tomorrow, and I’ll get started on that temporary simple circuit. I won’t include the out of phase switch nor the taps, but I’ll try to have the two in one blend and tone knob. Also, sorry for sending that beautiful Broadcaster picture, I sent that picture I saved from TDPRI instead of sending a picture of my switch! happy accident I guess now lol |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 29, 2022 22:46:40 GMT -5
Not worked with 3T but I think I could do a switch I got a board for a 5T that lets you do 4P5+5T as I've not got the 4P bit working fully yet and the 2P 3/5T cogs need no changing I don't see why can't just put a board on it and it will be slim line Nice to meet you! Thank you very much for helping me out. To clarify— what exactly do you mean by “I think I could do a switch”? If you’re talking about how I could use a 4P3T switch as a 2P3T one, after reading what newey wrote, it checked the basic tele diagram and it really looks clear that I can! |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 29, 2022 23:50:31 GMT -5
Also if I’m doing the standard Telecaster wiring, how do I get the full 10 kohm for the neck pickup? If you guys don’t remember (it’s been a while), there’s a white and black wire and those ones are the start and finish leads of the 8500 turn coil. Then there’s another coil around that, and that’s the 2000 kohm coil, with red and yellow leads that start and end it. I want to pretend this is just a normal 10.5 kohm neck pickup in a “normal” telecaster, how would I do so in the wiring? Maybe connect the 8500 end lead and the 2000 start lead together in series on the switch? Or I can temporarily solder those guys together…
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2022 4:23:15 GMT -5
Dam it
I read
"My super switch doesn't fit in the cavity, so I need to Dremel a bit to open it up for it to fit."
So I was going to suggest a way around that , but hay. I'll keep my nose
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Post by newey on Apr 30, 2022 5:42:23 GMT -5
Also if I’m doing the standard Telecaster wiring, how do I get the full 10 kohm for the neck pickup? If you guys don’t remember (it’s been a while), there’s a white and black wire and those ones are the start and finish leads of the 8500 turn coil. Then there’s another coil around that, and that’s the 2000 kohm coil, with red and yellow leads that start and end it. I want to pretend this is just a normal 10.5 kohm neck pickup in a “normal” telecaster, how would I do so in the wiring? Maybe connect the 8500 end lead and the 2000 start lead together in series on the switch? Or I can temporarily solder those guys together… Hmmm. Not sure with these weird custom pickups, you may need to touch base with your winder guy. Looking at Yogi B 's diagram, it looks like you would connect the black to +, red to negative, and leave the white and yellow wires disconnected, but I'm not entirely confident of that. A quick check with your meter would also probably tell the tale. |
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Post by gckelloch on Apr 30, 2022 11:15:09 GMT -5
Also if I’m doing the standard Telecaster wiring, how do I get the full 10 kohm for the neck pickup? If you guys don’t remember (it’s been a while), there’s a white and black wire and those ones are the start and finish leads of the 8500 turn coil. Then there’s another coil around that, and that’s the 2000 kohm coil, with red and yellow leads that start and end it. I want to pretend this is just a normal 10.5 kohm neck pickup in a “normal” telecaster, how would I do so in the wiring? Maybe connect the 8500 end lead and the 2000 start lead together in series on the switch? Or I can temporarily solder those guys together… From what I see, you'd connect the yellow & white wires, and the black & red become the start and finish wires. You could solder the yellow & white to any lug on an open rack of the super switch now for convenience. Just make sure there is nothing connected to the common lugs of that rack. |
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Post by thedirestrat on Apr 30, 2022 17:54:53 GMT -5
If anyone knows about this it's Yogi, he truly designed the pickup, Mr. Di Stefano just put it into existence (respect to both of them). Luckily Yogi was pretty clear about this, and Mr. Di Stefano was clear about which wire means what, and yes I believe if I connect the end lead of the 8500 and the start of the 2000, we should be in business, as gckelloch said. I'm going to use the meter to check it out. As it's only going to be temporary, I'll only put some insulating black tape to tie them together, instead of soldering them. But I'll really try playing a bit with the taps, I'm not going to be able to do the out of phase stuff, but I'll try figuring out the tone/blend pot and the taps! |
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Post by Yogi B on May 3, 2022 10:48:18 GMT -5
There’s 6 things to ground I believe. And based off what I learned from the others, I think the best idea to ground all this would be to connect the grounds all together (get everything that needs to be grounded in one place) As you can probably tell, I generally favour convenience over star grounding. Taking an example from my diagram, the four main wires from the neck pickup connect to the phase switch, yet the fifth shield wire needs to be grounded. The nearest terminal which also needs grounding is lug 1 of the volume pot, so that's where I connected it. With the standard (combined 4 + shield) cables found on humbuckers this is a practical concern, trying to minimise the length of outer jacket that needs to be stripped. Even though that doesn't apply to your neck pickup, as the wires are entirely separate (despite my drawing them grouped), I feel it's better to organise related wires together.
With another look, thinking more in terms of actual components than diagramming, if you were to run a relatively thick solid core wire fairly loosely from the ground lug of the volume pot directly up to the top of its casing that would give you a reasonable length of wire to which you could then join the other grounds. (That would eliminate the need for one of the ground wires from the right of the switch — they'd both be going to the same place.) The switch grounds are part of the switching logic, the bridge & neck pickups are grounded differently depending upon the position selection. Importantly this means your point 3 is incorrect, there is no single "signal ground" for the bridge pickup it depends on the switch position, therefore (like the neck pickup) the grounding of the bridge pickup is handled via the ground wire(s) going to the selector switch. Luckily Yogi was pretty clear about this, and Mr. Di Stefano was clear about which wire means what, and yes I believe if I connect the end lead of the 8500 and the start of the 2000, we should be in business, as gckelloch said. I'm going to use the meter to check it out. Yep, that'll probably be the best way to go, it's similar in principle to the centre leads of a four conductor humbucker that are usually joined and taped off in order to give the standard series operation — the only exception being that in your case there's just the one bobbin. Which of the neck's remaining red & black leads is treated as hot/ground depends on which way around you're wiring the bridge pickup — one allocation will have the neck in phase with the bridge (and hopefully hum-cancelling) the other out-of-phase (and not hum-cancelling). |
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Post by thedirestrat on Jun 26, 2022 23:46:29 GMT -5
Thank you Yogi for your last reply!
I should be on my way to solder the real deal circuit this week, starting mid week, can't wait! Exams have been over for a while, but a bunch of stuff I had to do first had to be done, and now they are.
I'll be making a Youtube video to test the sounds. Sorry for my playing in advance...
I've been thinking of some Strat mods too, I'll make another thread a few weeks from now to discuss some ideas, that hopefully others will also find interesting. It's great and I'm honoured to receive help, but I'd love to contribute and help out others myself too, as much as I can, which probably isn't much. But I'm sure these threads offer help to guests and members alike of this site-- this thread alone has more than 3000+ views!
Thank you once again for your help.
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Post by thedirestrat on Dec 29, 2022 14:59:11 GMT -5
Hey everybody,
I want to wish you all a Happy New Year, a good start to 2023, which will hopefully be a fulfilling year for everyone.
This mere idea for a Broadcaster tribute with a unique tone circuit has really became an important part of my life recently, it’s pretty incredible how many people I’ve met and connections I’ve made along the way due to this project.
The guitar is really something— looks great, sounds great! Though it’s not completely done yet.
— I recently got some Wudtone Xtra Aged Gloss finish for the body— right now it has a dry satin look, which is nice, but I’m looking for a more glossy shine— not too much of course.
— The neck isn’t exactly amber enough for my liking, it doesn’t provide enough contrast from the “yellow” body, so one day I’m going to get it properly finished and sprayed in amber nitrocellulose by a professional 😅
— The circuit. I still didn’t completely finish setting up the circuit. I want to fix my Strat first, and hopefully before the next university semester starts up again, I’ll have some time to work on that circuit!
I’ll keep this thread posted, and I’ll send some pictures of the guitar when I get home! Thanks again everyone for all your help.
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