HSS 2 vol, 1 tone, series schematic

[Tinus]

Hi!
I have a HSS stratocaster which currently has 1 volume pot for both the singlecoils and the humbucker. Because of their sounds I would like to have a 250k volume pot for the singlecoils, and a 500k one for the bridge humbucker. I searched for a while and the closest I found to what I want is this: www.jocidapark.com.au/circuits/circuits/2VSP3.gif
Though this schematic is a little more complicated than I can understand and than what I think I need. (Because of the out of phase options etc.)
So what I’m looking for is quite clear in my mind:
- 1 250k volume pot for neck and middle singlecoil
- 1 500k volume pot for the bridge humbucker
- 1 master tone pot for all three pickups
- a standard 5-way stratocaster switch with traditional pickup positions
- optionally a push/pull mod on the 250k pot to have the neck and middle pickups in either parallel or series
- optionally a push/pull mod on the 500k pot to have the bridge humbucker either as a humbucker or as a singlecoil (that’s series and parallel too?)
Sadly I lack the knowledge and experience to create a custom wiring schematic for myself. Is there anyone with more experience that can and wants to help me make this schematic?
Thanks everyone for reading!

[JohnH]

Hi Tinus and welcome to GN2

I'm sure what you seek is possible.

The diagram you posted was one of mine, from this thread:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/3157/strat-volume-controls-sss-hss

A couple of questions though:

With regard to having two volume controls, is it just so that you can have 250k and 500k for the singles and the Hb? Or do you want to use them separately to set different levels and mixes? If its the latter, than the two controls are good, but if its just about the 250k/500k change, then there are other simpler ways to address the issue. I like HSS very much, and just have a 250k volume pot on mine.

What pickups do you have?

[Tinus]

Hi John! Thank you!

It is pretty much about having a 250k pot for the singlecoils and a 500k for the humbucker. I don’t necessarily need to be able to set the volume for each pickup separately or mix them together. I have a Squier Stratocaster VII standard series guitar. The pickups are stock (for now). I want to try out this wiring with these stock pickups in an effort to get the best out of these pickups. If I’m still not satisfied with them after this I will most likely be getting Bare Knuckle Slab Board singlecoils for the neck and middle positions.

[JohnH]

OK that's great here's a few things to consider, before working out a two-volume scheme if that's what you want:


Tradition says that humbuckers get 500k pots for volume and tone, and single coils get 250k's. The difference is a very small amount of presence, its not actually very much unless you have very overwound humbuckers

Its the combination of tone pot and volume pot together, in parallel that set the max tone, even when the tone pot is at max. So, if your pickup is loaded with two 500k pots, the tone is exactly the same as a single 250k pot.

Therefore, a traditional control arrangement of tone pots on N and M but not B, with all 250k pots, will load the B humbucker exactly the same as two 500k's as on Les Pauls etc

If you chose to use 500k pots, and play with a single coil setting, if you turn down the tone pot to about 7, the tone is virtually identical to if you started with 250k pots at max. The distinctive effects of tone controls as determined by their capacitors only becomes significant below about 5 on the tone knob.

Another way starting with 500k pots, is to wire a fixed resistor, so the singles always feel that they are loaded equivalently to 250k pots

or, if you start with 250k pots, and want to have tone control on the humbucker, you can use a no-load pot that goes to infinite at 10. These can be bought readily, or converted from a standard pot. Then you have that 250k loading available on your HB if you want it. This is my own favourite on my HSS. I like the no-load effect on the singles too, it adds 'quack'.

But, you still might want the two volumes. This could be because you find the 250/500k tone adjustment to be important but don't want to adjust knobs when switching, or youd like to try different volumes preset (eg to make the single and HB volumes match, or to preset rhythm and lead levels, or set blended mixes)


I like HSS very much, and HSS American Special Strat is my daily player. I use a 250k no-load master tone and a 250k volume pot, plus a series/parallel scheme that gets me all my tones.

[Tinus]

“Another way starting with 500k pots, is to wire a fixed resistor, so the singles always feel that they are loaded equivalently to 250k pots”

This sounds very interesting! If it means that by just having 1 500k volume pot my singlecoils will sound like they would if they’re wired to a 250k volume pot. What kind of fixed resistor.
The “ quack” singlecoil sound you mentioned might be the sound I’m also after for my singlecoils. I would describe it as hollow/woody, like SRV’s strat sound.

[JohnH]

The sort of value in theory, is about 470k (which is a common value). It can also be a 1M preset, and you adjust it as you wish. 470k in parallel with a 500k pot, is close to 250k.

If you did that, and so had 1 volume and 2 other pots, what might they do? Two tones?, or a tone and a blend maybe? Plus you have your series and coil-cut push-pulls. I have a few HSS schemes, since I like them.

[gckelloch]

Oct 8, 2021 19:21:11 GMT -5 Tinus said:

“Another way starting with 500k pots, is to wire a fixed resistor, so the singles always feel that they are loaded equivalently to 250k pots”

This sounds very interesting! If it means that by just having 1 500k volume pot my singlecoils will sound like they would if they’re wired to a 250k volume pot. What kind of fixed resistor.
The “ quack” singlecoil sound you mentioned might be the sound I’m also after for my singlecoils. I would describe it as hollow/woody, like SRV’s strat sound.

I assume more "quack" in this case means a stronger resonance peak, as is the case with any pickup when using higher value pots. SRV's #1 may have had various pickups throughout his career, but the original's that came in the '63 body (the neck was '59) would have been standard ~6k Ohm/~2.5H with Heavy Formvar 42AWG wire. The thicker HF insulation just makes the coil bigger and less efficient. Guitar players attribute all manner of magical qualities to such pickups, but it's mainly just weaker lower note harmonics, and possibly some midrange cancellation from how the flux lines from the strings move through the larger coil. The AlNiCo V used by Fender back then was reportedly a softer/weaker, and possibly more permeable, grade closer to AlNiCo IV that produced a less strident note timber. That's an important part of the sound. Strats also came with an Aluminum pickguard shield back then which creates eddy-currents in the coils that reduce some of the harsher (3~3.5kHz) upper-midrange without affecting the highs. The resulting tone is considerably warmer & "sweeter" than modern AlNiCo V SC's in a guitar without a pickguard shield. SRV also fancied a cheap high capacitance Radio Shack coil cable that lowered the pickup resonance peaks into the ~2.5kHz range, which would then be reduced more when plugged into a ~500k Ohm Tube Screamer input. Not sure if it was the '59 neck, but the neck on his #1 eventually had a Pau Ferro FB. Pau Ferro has much smaller pores than Indian RW resulting in a more articulate attack almost like Ebony from less resonance damping through the frets. All that resulted in a warm, fat and articulate, yet sweet tone. I generally apply all these things to my S-types, and I now own three guitars with Pau Ferro FB's. It's a subtle difference from Indian RW, but I prefer it. Instead of a high capacitance cable, I use a very low capacitance cable, and wire low value caps on my tone controls for a variable 1.5~2kHz boost below 5 on the knob.

[Tinus]

Oct 8, 2021 22:48:34 GMT -5 JohnH said:

The sort of value in theory, is about 470k (which is a common value). It can also be a 1M preset, and you adjust it as you wish. 470k in parallel with a 500k pot, is close to 250k.

If you did that, and so had 1 volume and 2 other pots, what might they do? Two tones?, or a tone and a blend maybe? Plus you have your series and coil-cut push-pulls. I have a few HSS schemes, since I like them.

I am in a doubt as to what to do with the second tone pot. My two options are:
    1. a PTB tone control: the first tone pot cuts highs like a conventional tone control, while the second tone pot filters out lows
    2. a Half Blender: It blends in the neck pickup just like a standard Blender, but the Half Blender only works in Positions 1 & 2 of the switch: the Bridge, and Bridge + Middle Positions.
I'm leaning more to the first option since I sometimes like to use heavy distortion and if I understand correctly with that option I can clean up the low-end a bit. But, the second option seems very interesting because of the extra pickup combinations.
I would put the series and coil-tap push-pulls on the tone pots.

[JohnH]

Theres lots of options

Just on the PTB wiring. I think its a great idea, and adding the bass cut, if you'll use it, has no effect when set to no cut. This is good, and unlike some other mods, where when you add something, they also come with some negative side effect too.

The bass cut control needs to be a high value pot, like 1M, in order to have a decent range, particularly if its going with a 500k volume pot, they work together. Also, to get a good spread around the pot turn, they need to be a log pot (type A), or better, an anti-log pot (type C). This is what is needed if you want max bass at 10 on the knob. A normal log pot will give max bass at 0, which maybe you can get used to.

So ideally, you'd be looking for a 1M push-pull Type C pot. I think they exist but rare!


Just for interest, let me show you my HSS

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/6873/strat-ssm2-hss-sounds-dpdt

This one is very simple but gets all the best series and parallel sounds, plus bridge single, all in places that are easy to get to. I got there about 8 years ago, and haven't wanted anything different since.

[Tinus]

Great! So I have been looking for a pot like you described. I think this is the only option that came close to what you meant: www.tubeampdoctor.com/en/cts-push/pull-pot-1m-log-6.3mm
But I don’t think it’s an anti-log pot.. I haven’t been able to find one of those as of yet. This one is also an option, but still not an anti-log: www.banzaimusic.com/CTS-Pot-1M-log-Push-Pull-Switch.html
I found this one which is an anti-log, but it’s not push/pull: www.taydaelectronics.com/1m-ohm-c1m-1mc-anti-log-taper-potentiometer.html
Just because I’m curious; what kind of negative effects would a Half Blender tone control have?

[Tinus]

I found this thread on a different forum:
www.strat-talk.com/threads/so-you-want-a-bass-cut-control.249508/
This person has tried everything to make a bass cut tone knob and came out with this as the best option:

Get a $0.50 C1M mini pot from Taydaelectronics and retro fit in your guitar

According to the OP in the thread above it has to be a 1M pot and a C taper pot. Sadly this pot is not a push/pull pot (I linked it in my previous post).
So I see two options: either get push/pull pots for the volume and the first tone controls, or get a different mod than a bass cut.

[Yogi B]

Oct 10, 2021 5:06:47 GMT -5 Tinus said:

Get a $0.50 C1M mini pot from Taydaelectronics and retro fit in your guitar

Sadly this pot is not a push/pull pot (I linked it in my previous post).

The idea is to get both that pot with the correct taper and a push-pull pot with some arbitrary taper, then transplant the wafer containing the C1Meg resistive element into the push-pull pot e.g. Custom Reverse Audio Push-Pull Pot.

[JohnH]

Ive rebuilt quite a few normal pots, but rebuilding the push pulls would be more fiddle than I'd personally wish for. Can be done though.

For me, I think Id use the non-push-pull C taper 1M. Also, I dont really like push pull pots either! too fiddly for me. I prefer adding toggles and there are neat sub miniature ones that are very discreet. I have one on my HSS Strat.

But if a push-pull was to be used for bass,I wouldn't rule out the standard taper.Theres nothing fundamental that says a pot has to go one way.

[Tinus]

Sadly I’m quite a rookie when it comes to guitar electronics beyond the pickups. For me the two options will be to either get push/pull pots for the volume and the first tone controls, or get a different mod than a bass cut.
What do you guys think is the best solution? What are the possibilities of these two options?

[newey]

I think it's "six of one, a half dozen of the other". If you'd really rather not have a push/pull on the volume pot, then just go with the A taper !M with the push/pull. You'll get used to the operation of the bass cut quickly enough.

If you use the volume pot quite a bit while playing, probably best to have the push/pulls elsewhere.

[JohnH]

I think your half blender could work out well. I just doodled a schematic and it should wire up fine.

Youd need to have a standard looking Fender-type 5 way switch, ie, it has 4 lugs on each side. You can get 3 x 500k log pots, two of which are the push pulls

The series switch will put N in series with M in position 5.

In position 1, you can blend in either just neck, or the series mix of NxM

For the bridge, you should consider whether to have a single coil from pulling the coil cutswitch, or is it a series/parallel switch on teh bridge coils hum cancelling, a bit smoother than a single)


Basic:
B blends to B+N
B+M blends to B+N+M
M
M+N
N

Pull the series switch:
B blends to B + (NxM in series)
B+M
M
M
NxM series


In each case, B is either the humbucker, or a single/parallel version depending what you chose

If you want to add the extra 470k resistors, wire them one each directly across the N and M pickups

Does that sound to be of interest?

If so, I can work out a diagram

[Tinus]

That looks very cool John. Thank you for your help so far!
One suggestion about that wiring schematic: is it possible to have it wired up like this when in series mode:
Pull the series switch:
B blends to B + (NxM in series)
BxM series
M
NxM series
N
Also, what do you think about having a bass cut with an audio taper pot like Newey suggested? Could it work or will it be very annoying trying to get used to it? Just trying to get a second opinion since I pretty much have zero experience with the differences between potentiometers.

[JohnH]

That sequence may be possible but it would need a more complex switch, being a Superswitch with 24 lugs. The normal 5 ways are constrained to work as they do. Really they are like three-way switches, with extra in-between settings, not true 5-ways. Depends if you are up for the more complex wiring.

On the bass pot taper, to be honest I've not had one myself. I would be ok with a standard taper. I'd rationalise it in my mind in that both treble and bass get brighter as you role from 1 to 10. The treble pot gets more treble restored, and the bass cut gets brighter as bass reduces.

[Tinus]

Alright, it's no problem that it can't work that way with a standard 5-way switch. I rather keep it a little less complex haha. I have one more question (sorry) about the series switch. Would it be possible to have the singlecoils go through the 470k resistor while in single or parallel mode, but not while in series mode? So that when they're in series they see the full 500k volume pot and thus might sound more like a humbucker.

Since I'm still doubting a bit between the two wiring options I want to try them both, starting with the half blender. If I then really miss the option to cut some bass I will switch that second tone knob to a bass cut. This way I can first experiment with some of those additional pickup combinations that I wouldn't have otherwise. 
Which brand of components (pots and resistors) would you recommend? Currently there are (probably cheap) Squier electronics in this guitar, so when I get new ones I want them to at least be solid quality.

[newey]

For pots, Bourns, CTS and Alpha all make decent pots. The full-sized ones (24mm diameter) are preferable IMO, unless there are fitment issues with the other components that require going to the smaller "dime-sized" pots (which are generally 17mm dia.). As for resistors, I tend to stay away from the ceramic ones, but other than that I'll buy whatever is cheap, either polypropylene ones (the "greenies")or metal film ones.

Most guitar mfrs. use resistors (and other components) with 20% tolerances, meaning the stated resistance value can be plus or minus that amount from the actual value. One can buy resistors with 10% (or even 5%) tolerances, for more money, but it's probably not going to be an issue for guitar wiring. A resistor would probably have to be more than 20% off before you'd hear any audible difference.

[gckelloch]

The new CTS P/P pots are nice. Bulky, but well made with a smooth feel. The holes below the lug designators will fit 22AWG wire. It's a bit tricky to wrap and solder wires/parts around the bare wire sticking out of the holes, but I was able to do it on the two guitars I used them on without issue.

[Tinus]

Oct 14, 2021 18:33:33 GMT -5 gckelloch said:

The new CTS P/P pots are nice. Bulky, but well made with a smooth feel. The holes below the lug designators will fit 22AWG wire. It's a bit tricky to wrap and solder wires/parts around the bare wire sticking out of the holes, but I was able to do it on the two guitars I used them on without issue.

Thank you guys for your advice! I am not very experienced with soldering so if these CTS pots are more tricky than others maybe those won’t be a good pick for me? Also they have to fit Heavy Formvar 42AWG pickup wires.

[gckelloch]

Oct 14, 2021 19:13:45 GMT -5 Tinus said:

Oct 14, 2021 18:33:33 GMT -5 gckelloch said:

The new CTS P/P pots are nice. Bulky, but well made with a smooth feel. The holes below the lug designators will fit 22AWG wire. It's a bit tricky to wrap and solder wires/parts around the bare wire sticking out of the holes, but I was able to do it on the two guitars I used them on without issue.

Thank you guys for your advice! I am not very experienced with soldering so if these CTS pots are more tricky than others maybe those won’t be a good pick for me? Also they have to fit Heavy Formvar 42AWG pickup wires.

I would say the CTS holes are ultimately easier than soldering several wires/parts to one pin on other P/P pots. You might consider opting for some good quality mini 2P2T switches if you don't mind sacrificing the space between the pots and pickup selector. You could actually switch two at once with your fingers if you position them right. I'd say: between and perpendicular to the selector and just below the Volume knob so you can still turn it from underneath with your pinky. Push/Pulls are slow to use. I've had luck with a pair of Push/Push pots from Warmoth for 15 years, but they can be easily broken and one I ordered was defective and I went bonkers trying to figure out the issue until I finally replaced it.

The pickup wire gauge is irrelevant to the circuitry wiring. 22AWG is a pretty standard guitar circuitry gauge. In fact, I bought and recommend this wire package because the silicon insulation doesn't melt easily: www.amazon.com/dp/B07T4SYVYG?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2_dt_b_product_details

You really should learn good soldering technique and practice a few times. FI, You can burn out parts and even pickups if you use too much wattage, or you hold the iron on too long or without a heat sink or in the wrong place on a part. You'll want to use some Flux/Goot for the solder pool on the volume pot back and hold the iron near the pot edge so the heat doesn't dissipate too much to melt the solder. Tin leads b4 soldering, twist +&- leads, etc. Someone else might know a good soldering video, but you can find them on YT.

[JohnH]

I thought Id show a bit of progress with the blender option. This is a schematic, which is a thinking diagram and shows the connectivity. Once its agreed, or a variation, I can do a wiring diagram to build off:



It would be a fairly simple build using the standard 5 way switch and the options described above. There's 3x 500k log pots with two of them being push pull. There's a simple master tone control.

As shown, it has the bridge doing series or parallel wiring of its coils. But instead, it could do single and series.

The 470k resistors are there just fixing up the tone of the singles as discussed, but in series they pretty much get out of the way and dont significantly load your NxM 'humbucker'. The 470k on M is still there, but you wont hear it. (Ive tested something similar before)

There is a treble bleed circuit shown on the volume pot, which keeps the tone consistent as you turn down. Its optional though.

It would be a very versatile guitar, but if you don't use the blend or the other switches, then its also very simple, everything is where expected.

What do you think?

[Tinus]

Wow that’s amazing! Thank you!

Oct 15, 2021 15:13:25 GMT -5 JohnH said:

As shown, it has the bridge doing series or parallel wiring of its coils. But instead, it could do single and series.

You recommended going for the parallel or series wiring, instead of the singlecoil option. It will sound a bit smoother that way right?

Oct 15, 2021 15:13:25 GMT -5 JohnH said:

The 470k resistors are there just fixing up the tone of the singles as discussed, but in series they pretty much get out of the way and dont significantly load your NxM 'humbucker'. The 470k on M is still there, but you wont hear it. (Ive tested something similar before)

That is really perfect! Feels kinda like having the best of both worlds.

Oct 15, 2021 15:13:25 GMT -5 JohnH said:

There is a treble bleed circuit shown on the volume pot, which keeps the tone consistent as you turn down. Its optional though.

That sounds like a good addition to me! Having consistent tone while turning down the volume is something I will appreciate.

Again, this is amazing John, thank you very much! It think the schematic is pretty much perfect like this!

[JohnH]

OK great, Ill work on a diagram

Just to make it easier to do the mod, would you have any photos of its current internal wiring? ie pick-guard taken off) It would be handy to see the current pickup wire colours and where they go, and also see the 5 way switch

[Tinus]

Oct 15, 2021 18:43:58 GMT -5 JohnH said:

OK great, Ill work on a diagram

Just to make it easier to do the mod, would you have any photos of its current internal wiring? ie pick-guard taken off) It would be handy to see the current pickup wire colours and where they go, and also see the 5 way switch

Ah dang, I just left my house today for a weektrip. I won’t be back home untill next sunday evening. When I get home taking a picture of that will be one of the first things that I’ll do!

[Tinus]

I took 3 pictures of the internal wiring. Neck pickup is yellow + white, middle pickup is black + white, and bridge pickup is the thick green wire. The black wire from the volume pot (which is a 500k Alpha pot) is ground and the grey wire is output. Let me know if you need any other pictures! 

[JohnH]

Thanks for posting those. Its quite a tangle in there!

On the humbucker, I'm seeing the green wire connecting it, but not others. Is the green wire with an inner core and an outer braid? But, it looks like it may not be suitable for doing coil cuts or series parallel unless it is opened up and rewired to get wires to each seperate coil.

[Tinus]

That's a shame, but no big deal! Maybe if I'll ever buy a different humbucker then I'll wire that up with a coil tap option. For now it's perfectly fine without that option!