Request HSS in search of help with a challenge

[psiloguitarensis]

Nov 19, 2021 4:50:53 GMT -5 jhng said:

VOLUME UP
1 bridge series

2 bridge + middle series -- Do you mean to have the normal Bridge series humbucker and then the Middle in parallel (like the normal position 2 on a Squier HSS)? Or do you mean to have the Bridge pickup and the Middle pickup in series together, like one giant humbucker? That is a cool sound and Brian May uses it a lot. But it is much darker and heavier. Not quack at all.

3 b+m+n blended -- Do you mean to have B+M blended with N? Or do you mean B blended with M+N? Or, which would be very cool, B+N blended with M?
4 m+n blended
5 mid

VOLUME POT DOWN
1 bridge parallel
2 bridge + Middle parallel
3 B + M + N parallel -- So this is like position 3 above but simply with no blender?
4 Mid + neck parallel -- So this is like position 4 above but simply with no blender?
5 Mid

Regarding the 3-way switch, do you definitely need both North Single Coil and South Single Coil separately? I think they will sound very similar. If you only need one Single Coil, then you might be able to do the 3-way so it does: Bridge (series), Bridge (single coil), Bridge (parallel).

That would simplify the rest of the wiring since you might not need the push/pull. You could use it for something else like a phase switch or to change the tone control.

hey bro awesome question helped alot.

regarding 3 way i see what your saying  i even like the idea of series humbucker parallel with the 3 way so seeing what your saying i will revert to that method to place humbucker in series or parallel mode. i see what your saying about the single coil humbucker neither coil sound differently so there is no point though i would like to be able do single coil mode so i can do SSS configuration since im trying learn comfortably numb and that humbucker is 3 times hotter than neck and mid pickup.

regarding using pot for phase switching i listened to a video of a les paul didnt really see much use other than thinning out the sound but would like opinions on the phase switching mode. didnt sound great either unless it can produce awesome sounds when i use my wah.

regarding blender pot going place neck on blender since most of my play is bridge and mid pickups. i use neck rarer than the rest so seems best to place on a blender or i could use push pull to activate it when ever then have 2 tones knobs.

if neck is blended what would my switch layout options be in series and parallel mode im not sure how i determine that and how to wire the switch up, this i will go back and think on to see what i can figure out


QOUTE OFF

NEW QUESTIONS if i use 3way to make humbucker series or parallel and blender for neck do i even use a push pull pot or do i use the pot to make humbucker single coil when pulled up?  

do i use volume pot to do my series parallel switch and that get a 3way 1p1t on off switch to ground one coil off for a SSS  configuration and have 2 3way switch.

btw jhng i didnt miss that quackocaster comment and quite intrigued by how it would sound, if i left series parallel to the 3way could i use the P/P pot to make that happen in pos 3 then 1245 are as normal less i hit a switch for series mode?

[jhng]

Okay, I am starting to understand your goals now.

But I need to check something. Can you put links to the specific 3 way switch and blend pot that you have? There are different sorts of 3 way switch and blend pot.

If you like David Gilmour, then you should definitely have Neck + Bridge combination. It is a very useful combination which he actually uses on the first solo from Comfortably Numb.

[psiloguitarensis]

awesome im glad of that.

my only goal with the SSS ability using the 3way was to have that b+n and b+m+n combo in SSS mode since the humbucker is 12.8k compared to the others at 4.6k 

i am fine with losing the 3way if that has to happen and using p/p for the switching to series

[psiloguitarensis]

@angellahash

Nov 19, 2021 9:21:28 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

I do think Circuit Diagrams will help you Follow a Path from Pickup to Jack!





I hope this Shows what a Blend Pot looks like, Tone Pot , Volume Pot and The Mono Jack Socket

i didnt miss your diagram brother i promise thank you for the diagrams because of everyones help ive had to lookup alot of information and cram it in lol. yaw are super helpful and i thank you a bunch.

so to be sure im understanding that bottom diagram

BLENDER POT  TOP Lug 1 pickup Lug 2 output to tone Lug 3 ground 
                        BOTTOM  Lug 1   Lug 2 jumper lug 1,2 wire to lug2 of tone pot Lug 3 ground


Tone POT Lug 1 short to pot leg|leg of resistors Lug 2 input from blender|other leg of resistors Lug 3 output to volume pot


VOLUME POT Lug 1 ground Lug 2 wire to tip Lug 3 input from sleeve and tone pot

[psiloguitarensis]

jhng newey this is what i bought to mod guitar with














these are components bought to upgrade guitar with

[jhng]

Does that toggle switch have three lugs or six lugs? If it has three, it must be a single pole switch and either 'on-on-on' or 'on-off-on'. Do you know which?


Is this the first time you have tried to mod a guitar and done soldering? If so, I think it would be a really good idea if you start with a simple mod. Try it out for a while and then try more complicated ones. So you can save the superswitch and other items for later on. I remember being in tears the first time I tried to wire a superswitch. It is a really good idea to practice with something simple first.

If the toggle is a SP3T 'on-off-on' switch, then you could do a very good and easy mod which would meet a lot of your goals.

Simple First Mod -- Add a three-way toggle switch which does this:

1. Bridge Humbucker becomes a single coil in positions 1 and 2 (position 2 will be much quackier)
2. (Centre position) - No effect. The guitar is like normal.
3. A Bridge Single Coil is added to positions 4 and 5, giving you N+M+B and N+B (but with single coil Bridge).

That mod would basically be a version of the Gilmour mod and a coil split at the same time. So you would get quite a lot of effect for a very simple mod.

You would do it like this:

1. Disconnect the second tone control and take it out.
2. Disconnect the remaining tone control from the 5-way switch and solder it to the volume pot (the same lug that the 5-way switch is connected to)
3. Put the toggle switch into the empty hole (so you don't have to drill a new hole in your pickguard). It might be a little bit small but it should fit well enough.
4. Find the centre wires of the humbucker. They will already be joined together.
5. Keep the centre wires joined together but solder them to the middle lug of the toggle switch.
6. The five-way switch will have three empty lugs where the tone controls used to be attached.
7. Attach one of the remaining toggle switch lugs to the five-way switch lug at one end.
8. Attach the other toggle switch lug to the five-way switch lug at the other end of the three. So there is an empty lug between.
9. Put it all back together.
10. Play Comfortably Numb.

That mod involves a total of three solder disconnections and six new solder joins. That may sound very easy, but if you haven't soldered inside a guitar before, you will probably find that it still takes a while. Then you will get the satisfaction (hopefully!) of seeing it all work.

Once you have played around with it for a while, you can then look at adding other elements later on, like the blender and the superswitch.

Good plan?

[unreg]

Nov 19, 2021 4:08:13 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

Nov 18, 2021 19:49:23 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

…Main point is Jack Red & Black are Linked together

hi psiloguitarensis, thought I’d expand @angellahash’s wise comment here:

A problem in your revised diagram is that the red wire (signal) and black wire (ground), from your jack, are both soldered together (on a pot). The guitar won’t work correctly (guaranteed) if signal meets ground; so make sure to keep those wires separate. 🙂

They both go to your jack, but are soldered to the jack lugs; one jack lug connects to the jack’s tip connector, and the other lug connects to the jack shaft connector. When you plug a cable in, its tip touches the jack’s tip connector and its shaft touches the jack’s shaft connector. So, signal never meets ground appropriately. 🙂

[psiloguitarensis]

jhng it is 6 lug on on on switch

I would be quite happy with an extra quack mode and have no issues drilling holes or soldering.

I do metal fabrication for a living and specialty is welding.

unreg haha I didn't even see I did that thanks for points that out you rock bud

[jhng]

So you are comfortable soldering -- excellent!

With a 6 lug, 'on-on-on' it should be possible to do series/parallel/single on the toggle.

What about the following:

1. Bridge (with the toggle for series/parallel/single on the Bridge pup)
2. Bridge + Middle (with the toggle for series/parallel/single on the Bridge pup)
3. Middle (which never changes)
4. Neck + Middle with blend to Bridge single coil (so in the middle it would be N+M+B)
5. Neck with blend to Bridge single coil (so in the middle it would be N+B)

In positions 4 and 5, the Bridge would only be a single coil so it would balance better with the other two pups. You could also make position 2 so it is always a Bridge single paired with the Middle. Fender HSS strats are often wired like this.

Then the push/pull would be free and could be used for something else later, e.g. a phase switch or some extra series combinations.

If you think that would meet your goals, I can try and do you a diagram. But it may take a few days because I have a lot on this weekend.

[psiloguitarensis]

jhng that sounds doable
Pos 2,4 be as if I added a boost to the quack or does that blender lower the pickups to half volume when blended?

Could use push pull pot to do sum cool configuration where I got 2 more quack tones in 2 and 4 with some kind of combo with the 2 single coils which would also let me blend humbucker coil but would that need reversing I dunno think on it for me appreciate all your help

I'll even work on a diagram myself.
Don't understand how to make the 3way

series parallel split

unless I maybe ground one leg so it shorts one coil out

Either way sounds like I'll have fun

[psiloguitarensis]

newey jhng  @angellahash only because my my brain's compulsive add is hitting i have to ask

would i benefit to use 3way for parallel split series 

use push pull for some kind of strat o tele with neck and mid pickups when pot pulled up

sounds like a cool idea if its possible and maybe even get a cool tone out the deal

be something like this i think


P|P DOWN POS \ parallel

1 bridge + middle + neck

2 bridge + middle neck blendable

3 Bridge

4 middle + neck n+bridge blendable

5 bridge + neck



P|P DOWN POS / series

1 bridge middle + neck

2 bridge + middle neck blendable

3 bridge

4 middle + neck n+bridge blendable

5 bridge + neck



P|P DOWN POS | split

1 N+bridge + mid+ neck

2 N+bridge + mid neck blendable

3 mid

4 mid + neck N+bridge blendable

5 N+bridge + neck

P|P UP POS \ parallel

1 bridge ?

2 bridge + midneck?

3 mid ?

4 mid + neck ?

5 neck ?

P|P UP POS / series
1 bridge ?

2 bridge + midneck(wired in series together)?

3 mid ?

4 mid + neck ?

5 neck ?

P|P UP POS | split
1 N+bridge ?

2 N+bridge + midneck(wired parallel together)?

3 mid ?

4 mid + neck ?

5 neck ?

dont know if this setup is even possible but i will push limits as yaw have found out. diagram below is something close to what i imagine




this is revised with ground correction still dont know if its doable the tele mode which if so would be an awesome way to use that push pull pot



unreg here ya go im learning quickly how to clean and make it easier to see what im doing might take me more than once lol how this is better

[unreg]

Nov 19, 2021 20:26:41 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

psiloguitarensis, hi again. 🙂

Your diagram is problematic again; its jack’s signal wire is soldered to the ground lug of your vol pot?! 🤔 What happened to never letting signal and ground contact? 😯🙂

A point to make: Always check the logic yourself. Never trust another guitar logic site/video; I made this mistake frequently and was thankfully always corrected by newey, ashcatlt, and/or reTrEaD. ❤️


EDIT: And was probably corrected by gumbo and frets and others too. I’m sill corrected; an endless mistake maker.


FINAL-EDIT: Your thread has been severely edited; newey’s response to your first post no longer makes any sense… partly bc his quotes can’t be found in your “initial” post. Here, we don’t severely edit posts bc others can learn from mistakes made; everyone makes mistakes; mistakes are ok when we learn from them… a part of living. 🙂

[psiloguitarensis]

Does tip always go lug 2 of vol?

When grounding sleeve should always select another pit or say super switch as a ground?

I saw a cool strat o tele article and thought to my self
Let me see if I can wire that up and if it's doable.

After talking with jhng and newey and angel I can too it's best use
3 way series split parallel
Blender
Which left a blank push pull doing nothing but volume so I says wonder if that strst o Tele can be done with the volume pot


Saw your edit sorry about that I felt I was being obnoxious with almost 3 pages of Gibbs yaw are graciously trying to decipher

[unreg]

Nov 20, 2021 1:39:46 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Does tip always go lug 2 of vol?

Yes, that seems right… according to this:

guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/6612/potentiometer-orientation

When grounding sleeve should always select another pit or say super switch as a ground?

…hmmm… the sleeve connects to your jack’s ground lug, and the wire from your jack’s ground lug should eventually be the ground destination of all ground wires. If you attach a ground wire somewhere, be sure NOT to attach a signal wire there too. 🙂

(I used a “star ground”, that’s one massive ground destination spot also sending receiving ground to from the jack, so can’t provide any more specifics to your question; sry.)


FINAL-EDIT:

Nov 20, 2021 1:39:46 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Saw your edit sorry about that I felt I was being obnoxious with almost 3 pages of Gibbs yaw are graciously trying to decipher

I understand you; after posting that, I remembered someone making similar edits, authorized by newey, to his early posts; note: he made comments inside posts he edited to help general future audiences make sense of the thread adjustments. 🙂

Just trying to be helpful.

[psiloguitarensis]

hmmm ill ask newey how to do that make refernces for the future app. the suggestions 

i must figure away to make a blender and a push pull pot for diy layout rather than using a 6pin headboard to define lug locations 

do look back to last schematic what are other ways to clean up wiring looks if ya dont mind me asking

[Deleted]

Suggestion.
There is a Show in the UK called Ready Steady Cook where people bring in stuff and Chefs then have to Cook with what they got

So you have a 4P5T Lever Switch , some sort of 2P2T Toggle (normally says on the other side if its a On/On , On/On/On or a On/Off/On) {and dam thats a big thread on it} PLUS a 2P2T (on/on) Push pull, Blend and a Volume Pot, all to be used on a SSH system

It can be very hard to get 3 Pickups all the same time, because its a lot of controlling
So MAX (and i'd be impressed if any one can get that much) 20 different combo 5x2x2 [maybe a few more if its a On/Off/On or On/On/On]
and try and Hit most of what you want as i dont think can get it all


------------------------------------------------------

Guessing from the Diagrams you want to learn
my suggestion is to look at a Lot of Diagrams on Guitar Circuits and follow the PATH for each stage
then look at another with a MOD on it, notice the difference and see what the new Bit does

Just Follow the Flow

[jhng]

Nov 20, 2021 5:09:36 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

Suggestion.
There is a Show in the UK called Ready Steady Cook where people bring in stuff and Chefs then have to Cook with what they got

So you have a 4P5T Lever Switch , some sort of 2P2T Toggle (normally says on the other side if its a On/On , On/On/On or a On/Off/On) {and dam thats a big thread on it} PLUS a 2P2T (on/on) Push pull, Blend and a Volume Pot, all to be used on a SSH system

It can be very hard to get 3 Pickups all the same time, because its a lot of controlling
So MAX (and i'd be impressed if any one can get that much) 20 different combo 5x2x2 [maybe a few more if its a On/Off/On or On/On/On]
and try and Hit most of what you want as i dont think can get it all

The toggle is an ‘on-on-on’ apparently. The blender is also functionally an ‘on-on-on’ DP3T when it is at 0, 5, 10.

So potential combos is at least 5 x 3 x 3 x 2 = 90.

I can see a way to do 80 distinct combos:

5-way wired as John Atchley’s S-Tastic (B, B+N, BxN, -BxN, N)
Blender adds Middle in parallel (5-0) or series (5-10) (although the log tapers would be backwards).
P/P does Middle phase switch
DP3T Toggle does Series/Split/Parallel on the Bridge humbucker

But note that those 80 combos do not include Middle pickup on its own (psilo’s favourite). Which shows exactly why having more options is not the same as having the right options.

[Deleted]

Go for it then
I've looked up John Atchley’s S-Tastic and found mainly posts here
one by you in 2006 with 3x2P2T switches and the 4P5T
and the one by John S Atchley in 2000 that just uses a Single Pot Blend to bring in the Middle and a 4P5T switch


-------------------------

Id like to see the other side of that Switch as the T80-T is a range of switches by SaleCom

[psiloguitarensis]

Well I asked for opine and man you knocked it out with plenty to digest. I did want to know about the strat o tele and hss configuration lol.

I'll snap a pic of the 3 way now for ya

[psiloguitarensis]

@angellahash this is all sides of the t80 on on on switch

[jhng]

Nov 20, 2021 11:06:30 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

Well I asked for opine and man you knocked it out with plenty to digest. I did want to know about the strat o tele and hss configuration lol.

I'll snap a pic of the 3 way now for ya

You have enough components to do almost anything with the wiring. The challenge is not "how to do it" but "what to do".

It is better to have a handful of good sounds that are right for you and easy to use than to have eighty different options that you never use and that make it harder to use the guitar.

My guitar (a normal strat) has a five-way switch, a push-pull and a volume pot. Ten combinations only and no tone controls. I did it 15 years ago and have not had to change it (until it recently started misbehaving).

[psiloguitarensis]

ok ok 80 configurations wow thats alot and seems i would need lots of more switches?

series parallel split is my main goal with the 3way

the strat o tele is not required with the push pull just a thought/idea for use with the push pull but if its doable then sure i can find lots of uses for the setup.



@angellahash im very ADD and will change my mind alot of times before i can make a decision stick lol.

though originally i thought i had what i wanted until yaw showed me much much more and explained alot

i feel i had alot of understanding about tones wrong but today i dont.

i do wanna buy another guitar probably SSS configuration and will ask all options and how to obtain them will come lol.

but for now im happy with the 3way working everything the \parallel |split /series

[unreg]

Nov 20, 2021 3:02:45 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

do look back to last schematic what are other ways to clean up wiring looks if ya dont mind me asking

This image shows an ungrounded vol pot. The vol pot still needs to be grounded too. Often the solution chosen is to run a short wire from its ground lug to the vol pot’s case. frets uses a severed capacitor leg-piece for vol pot grounding.

The 470k resistor is attached to your vol pot ground lug to receive ground; that’s sufficient as long as that ground lug also receives ground.


Sir, sry, my knowledge about other parts you are using is extremely tiny, so am at a loss looking at the rest.


EDIT:

Nov 20, 2021 12:19:23 GMT -5 unreg said:

Often the solution chosen is to run a short wire from its ground lug to the vol pot’s case.

That chosen solution helps ground the vol pot case; your vol pot is currently ungrounded; if its case is grounded, the ground MAY transfer to its ground lug with that solution often chosen; but, as ashcatlt teaches, we shouldn’t rely on pot case soldering to transfer ground. Though, you are experienced at soldering.

I’m thinking: maybe twist a wire with the ground wire that would be grounding your switch; solder that twist to your switch; and run that new wire end to your vol pot’s ground lug… then your vol pot will be grounded AND you’ll be able to use that solution often chosen to ground your vol pot case. 🙂

[Deleted]

I've used the "Blend" pot as a Switch (ie all the way one side selects just that) does add the Pot value (im not sure what that is) in to the the sum.
1) N ... N+M ... M
2) N ... N+B ... B
3) M ... M+B ... B
4) NxM or NxB ... (NxM)+B or (NxB)+M ... B or M
5) N ... N +(MxB) ... MxB

I dont think i've done justic to the 2P2T switch that only any good in position 4
come to think of it, i could of added it to Position 1 too and takes out Position 2
1) N ... N+M or B ... M or B
2) M ... M+B ... B
3) NxM or NxB ... (NxM)+B or (NxB)+M ... B or M
4) N ... N +(MxB) ... MxB
5)

So wanted to have M+N+B but couldnt think of how to do it

[jhng]

@angellahash -- that circuit looks promising. Good use of the blender.

Here is a very simple idea that might work for psiloguitarensis. It only uses the 3-way toggle together with a standard strat switch.

It uses the 3-way toggle as a series/split/parallel switch on the Bridge humbucker. But has the secondary effect that in split or parallel mode, it also functions as a 'Bridge on' switch, adding a Bridge single coil to positions 4 and 5. This is the Gilmour mod and gives N+M+B (all single coils) and N+B (all single coils). I think that would really expand the tonal range of an HSS strat with a relatively simple mod and only one extra control.

You would need to be careful about getting the 3 way switch wired the right way around.  The schematic doesn't easily show the logic of the 'on-on-on' switch.

[psiloguitarensis]

@angellahash woe going to be a wild guitar hope we get a video of demo when it is complete
jhng
jhng most certain am happy with just that. once i hash out how the strat o tele works and how to connect with a pusah pull ill use that then


is that both finish wires together?
connect both commons with jumper

NB+ goes to c2

lug 4 to pos 1,3 on strat 5way opposed lugs from mid neck

lug 3 SB+ to ground ?

[Deleted]

JHNG
I know the feeling about how to express a 2P2T on/on/on in circuit diagram format (hell I'm going to Google to see if there is any thing)

Do like how others do it in the wiring up diagrams with the lines between the hmm long stay legs

[unreg]

Nov 19, 2021 20:26:41 GMT -5 psiloguitarensis said:

unreg here ya go im learning quickly how to clean and make it easier to see what im doing might take me more than once lol how this is better

Ummm…. it is interesting that you applied the often used method, of grounding the vol pot case, that I mentioned. However, it is clear that my post was too wordy… you missed my edit.

The edit said that your vol pot isn’t grounded… and it’s still not bc, even though its ground lug is now connected to its case, the ground lug continues to lack reception of ground from your jack.

My edit further explained how to do this.

It’s ok, I get the learning aspect… your diagram is nearing containing a grounded vol pot. At least the vol pot case will now receive ground after you ground the vol pot ground lug. 🙂


EDIT: Oh, you say, “6 pin board on vol pot is lug hookup reference and to cleanup hookup area” at the top. Honestly, I don’t understand your 6 pin board logic; so maybe you actually ARE grounding your vol pot’s ground lug? If so, the grounding seems indirect, to me at least. 🙂

[jhng]

psiloguitarensis, if you want to try out the simple mod that I suggested above, here is a picture of the wiring with instructions. I think this would be a good first step. Then you can try out the split/parallel humbucker sounds as well as the N+M+B and N+B sounds (N+B is what some people call the 'strat-o-tele' sound).

If you want more later on, you can then try some more complicated stuff with the superswitch and blender like @angellahash has suggested.

I am confident that the diagram is correct and self-explanatory. However, if anyone has two minutes to check it and confirm, please do. The 3 way is a Salecom T180-T 'on-on-on'.

[newey]

jhng-

Your diagram is fine. However, I take issue with your statement as to the wire colors "South coil hot- usually green". True for stock Gibson HBs and a few others, but not true for either Dimarzio pickups or Seymour Duncan- the coils would be out of phase if either a DM or SD pickup were wired that way. There are so many variations in HB wire colors that it's usually better to just specify what wire colors one is using for the diagram, and leave it up to the user to translate the colors to whatever pickup they are using.

Also note that the N coil is "hanging from hot" when the switch is in the center position. If the S coil is the one desired to be split, could wire the HB "inside out" and then connect it to the hot output instead of to ground. This would split the S coil and short the north coil to itself.