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Post by gckelloch on Jan 5, 2022 21:23:56 GMT -5
The ME-25 lists only COSM modeled "Preamps", so it may not even include amp section modeling. It may be intended to be plugged into a guitar amp, but it is definitely "outdated" modeling tech at this point. Aliasing is probably an issue, and they may have used sharp filtering to reduce it. Newer units have dealt with Aliasing better, and the models are better. The big contenders are the Boss GT-100o series, Line 6 Helix, and Headrush units. Even the cheapest Headrush unit has a quadcore DSP. It might be worth the extra ~$100 if you decide to upgrade. Although it has fewer amps and FX models, and will take a while to catch up, the quadcore DSP allows for complex internal routing i.e parallel signal chains.
I use some type of subtle compression/overdrive effect after my amp sim presets to somewhat emulate speaker cab dynamics. I'd do that within those pedal units as well. Keep in mind that what you are hearing through whatever monitors is a mic'd guitar cab. Depending on the mic, there will be some low-end proximity boost and high-end lift. Ribbon mics generally have the strongest proximity boost of more than 12dB at 2" in some cases. I generally mix an SM57 and U67 models at 1.5"-2" on two different/compatible guitar speakers for a combined ~3dB low and high-end boost. There are some flatter mics, but I like the sound I get from them, and it is a classic mic combo going back to the '60s. The U67 has internal proximity effect reduction, so it's not as boomy as some other large-diaphragm mics. I think the Shure SM7B also has proximity reduction and a flatter high-end, but I like the high-end "sizzle" of the U67. AFAIK, the U87 is just a transistor version of the U67. I still prefer the U67 models, but "too each...".
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Post by sumgai on Jan 6, 2022 0:14:08 GMT -5
Maybe amps are a thing of the past. I'm not too certain that standalone amplifiers are going the way of the Dodo bird, but there certainly is a lot of attention being paid to "sound reinforcement" systems right about now. gckelloch's recommendation may be a bit much for you, as it includes a lot of extra stuff, but there are lots of potential purchases in that price range that should sound pretty good to you, regardless of which pedal you might buy in the future. As to that.... I've been looking at manuals, online of course. I see where the GT-100 still models only preamps, though they do cover a lot of different amp models. But the cost of these things.... $500 USD and up, on eBay!! For that kind of money, you can purchase a Roland GR-55 or a VG-99, both of which provide models of entire amps, as well as speaker cabs, mic types, mic distance from the cab, axis (on center or off, up to 20 degrees in some cases), number of speakers in a cab and what size they are, all kinds of stuff like that. The key takeaway here is that you can plug your axe with its normal pickups straight into the box and get the COSM amp models, no special pickup needed! Yeah, they're a bit expensive, and have lots of stuff you don't want to use, but the amount of control over your amp tone.... Just sayin, that's all. The GR-33 and the VG-88 families are similar, but are much older so they probably won't deliver the tonal quality you're looking for. I, and a few other Nutz, can take you deeper into this, should your wallet feel like letting you play Santa Claus for yourself. (On eBay, I found some units going for $400 or so.) But in the meantime, I refer you to Roland US for some "light" reading. Click on Support, Support By Product, Owner's Manuals, then pick a unit. For Boss devices like your GT-100, go to Boss US , then follow the same menu choices. Tables for most of the choices you would be looking for are either towards the middle or the end of the manual(s), it varies. HTH sumgai
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 6, 2022 1:13:58 GMT -5
Maybe amps are a thing of the past. I'm not too certain that standalone amplifiers are going the way of the Dodo bird, but there certainly is a lot of attention being paid to "sound reinforcement" systems right about now. gckelloch's recommendation may be a bit much for you, as it includes a lot of extra stuff, but there are lots of potential purchases in that price range that should sound pretty good to you, regardless of which pedal you might buy in the future. As to that.... I've been looking at manuals, online of course. I see where the GT-100 still models only preamps, though they do cover a lot of different amp models. But the cost of these things.... $500 USD and up, on eBay!! For that kind of money, you can purchase a Roland GR-55 or a VG-99, both of which provide models of entire amps, as well as speaker cabs, mic types, mic distance from the cab, axis (on center or off, up to 20 degrees in some cases), number of speakers in a cab and what size they are, all kinds of stuff like that. The key takeaway here is that you can plug your axe with its normal pickups straight into the box and get the COSM amp models, no special pickup needed! Yeah, they're a bit expensive, and have lots of stuff you don't want to use, but the amount of control over your amp tone.... Just sayin, that's all. The GR-33 and the VG-88 families are similar, but are much older so they probably won't deliver the tonal quality you're looking for. I, and a few other Nutz, can take you deeper into this, should your wallet feel like letting you play Santa Claus for yourself. (On eBay, I found some units going for $400 or so.) But in the meantime, I refer you to Roland US for some "light" reading. Click on Support, Support By Product, Owner's Manuals, then pick a unit. For Boss devices like your GT-100, go to Boss US , then follow the same menu choices. Tables for most of the choices you would be looking for are either towards the middle or the end of the manual(s), it varies. HTH sumgai He has the Boss ME-25. The GT-100 does include amp section modeling, and it claims to have included tube amp behavior characteristics in the models. I assume that means tube/transformer/speaker impedance reactance that compresses/distorts midrange than low and high-end at higher gain settings -- a critical aspect of dynamics. I still don't know how Boss handles digital aliasing. Aliasing becomes audible with higher gain settings all through the signal chain. Line 6 has virtually eliminated it only recently without increasing processor usage. Perhaps Boss has done the same with the new GT-1000 line, but the Boss amp models still seem to sound more filtered to me. Here's a comparison of the big three b4 Line 6 fixed aliasing: You can find comparison videos of the post aliasing fix update 3.1. It's a fairly subtle distinction that clears and smooths the high end. I also really like the amp section tweakability of the Helix software, but I don't know much about the other two. I still have my Boss GT-5 from the late '90s on the floor under my desk but I never use it anymore.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 6, 2022 1:34:07 GMT -5
HPNY great father of GN2!!
Howbout those sy-300 and friends which can do polyphonic tracking, minimal latency with stock pickups (not the special Roland pup).
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 6, 2022 3:54:47 GMT -5
HPNY great father of GN2!! Howbout those sy-300 and friends which can do polyphonic tracking, minimal latency with stock pickups (not the special Roland pup).
Really nice '70s synth sounds from that thing. Amazing it's even possible to have polyphonic tracking of strings. How does it possibly determine the fundamentals from all the harmoncis of multiple strings, especially when exciting harmonics? There must be some glitching it masks or something. Either way, the demo sounds awesome.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 6, 2022 4:09:36 GMT -5
thank you ppl, the possibilites are endless so one has to put priorities!
my priority no1 is to play moden metal, the guy in the video demoing helix and gt-1000 was not so convincing in his playing or the choice of sounds. At the end he plays with the Jim Root tele, but fails to exhibit some djent-y modern tones.
I don't know maybe I'll join a new band and then decide what the needs are.
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 6, 2022 7:35:20 GMT -5
Maybe amps are a thing of the past. Man, if that isn't indicative of how the music industry has evolved. When you can produce an entire album and never employ a single musician, is it surprising amps become digital appliances you can connect to your MAC or Android device? I suppose once Mark the Anti-Christ perfects the metaverse a Katana Air will be the only thing your avatar will ever need. HTC1
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Post by newey on Jan 6, 2022 9:20:03 GMT -5
I suppose once Mark the Anti-Christ perfects the metaverse a Katana Air will be the only thing your avatar will ever need. When I come home frustrated from work, an amp sim through headphones or a sound card just won't cut it. I want to crank my Peavey to 11 and work out my frustrations. That's not going to change anytime soon.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 6, 2022 10:07:46 GMT -5
gckelloch how about Mooer, it seems MIC but well worth the bucks!
WTF
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Post by cynical1 on Jan 6, 2022 10:38:53 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I was one of the few early adopters of the Bass Rockman from Mr. Scholz. I worked afternoons and it was the only way to practice at 1:00AM.
Guitar, and instrument sales in general, have all taken a hit over the past 20-30 years. A guy I worked with was telling me about a "Vinyl Party" where people bring their shiny new $25.00 vinyl disc to a party and sit and listen. I admit to just nodding and walking away at the time.
The more I thought about it...yeah, we did that. Only so we knew what we had to practice to keep a gig... 100 years ago and before, people would gather to play instruments together making their own "music" for the party. I would argue that was one of the first social media events that didn't require a meta version to stay viable. Unless you're in a band, I would wager you can't find 2 other people that can play an instrument to relive that nostalgia if you wanted to. I did it right, one grandson plays guitar and the other plays drums...
I see it personally. Back in the 70's and 80's there was a thriving business to be had in repairs and builds. One man music shops were everywhere around Chicago...it was a treasure hunt to see what prizes were lurking undusted in the back... When I got back in 2019 I went looking for a few of them. Only one survived, but only by adopting a volume business model. Quite different than I recalled on my last visit...but hey, they kept the doors open.
The loss of venues around the area didn't help. If you own a bar, the last thing you need is the additional liability and expense of maintaining a live music venue. Certainly, online retailing killed most of them. The chain stores cleaned up the rest. What used to be an experience, almost Holy, turned into another selfie on Facebook.
So the salvation to consumers also created a monster.
This "monster" is:
The Three Absolutes You Can Have In Any Transaction
1.) The absolute highest quality.
2.) The absolute fastest delivery.
3.) The absolute lowest price.
Now, pick two. That's the catch. Look at the industry and you see what's absent.
OK, so a little of this is lamenting for the past. It happens as you get older...or more judgemental...but I do find it ironic that so many digital amp simulators use their 21st century cutting edge technology to reproduce a 1950's tube amp.
What's my point? The industry is where the market led it. The design and quality standards are exactly what we've been asking for. What do you do now that you've discovered that it wasn't what you wanted?
HTC1
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 6, 2022 10:47:25 GMT -5
gckelloch how about Mooer, it seems MIC but well worth the bucks! WTF
I don't know anything about guitar synths. You'll have to research that. I agree about the catharsis of playing loud through speakers. Gotta be careful with headphones. Easy to damage ears.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 6, 2022 11:02:42 GMT -5
pyrroz, I discarded the SY-300 as being primarily a synth, without much in the way of modeling an amp. The SY-1000 does have a lot of control going for it, but eBay sellers seem to think it should go for around a cool thousand bucks!!! You haven't ever mentioned having a budget that large, so I just assumed.....
gc, Yes, pyrroz has had his ME-25 for several years, so I'm just assuming that he's already totally familiar with it. However, he did say something about investigating the GT-100, hence my link to Boss US for the manual(s). HTH sumgai
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 6, 2022 12:25:29 GMT -5
Don't get me wrong, I was one of the few early adopters of the Bass Rockman from Mr. Scholz. I worked afternoons and it was the only way to practice at 1:00AM. Guitar, and instrument sales in general, have all taken a hit over the past 20-30 years. A guy I worked with was telling me about a "Vinyl Party" where people bring their shiny new $25.00 vinyl disc to a party and sit and listen. I admit to just nodding and walking away at the time. The more I thought about it...yeah, we did that. Only so we knew what we had to practice to keep a gig... 100 years ago and before, people would gather to play instruments together making their own "music" for the party. I would argue that was one of the first social media events that didn't require a meta version to stay viable. Unless you're in a band, I would wager you can't find 2 other people that can play an instrument to relive that nostalgia if you wanted to. I did it right, one grandson plays guitar and the other plays drums... I see it personally. Back in the 70's and 80's there was a thriving business to be had in repairs and builds. One man music shops were everywhere around Chicago...it was a treasure hunt to see what prizes were lurking undusted in the back... When I got back in 2019 I went looking for a few of them. Only one survived, but only by adopting a volume business model. Quite different than I recalled on my last visit...but hey, they kept the doors open. The loss of venues around the area didn't help. If you own a bar, the last thing you need is the additional liability and expense of maintaining a live music venue. Certainly, online retailing killed most of them. The chain stores cleaned up the rest. What used to be an experience, almost Holy, turned into another selfie on Facebook. So the salvation to consumers also created a monster. This "monster" is: The Three Absolutes You Can Have In Any Transaction 1.) The absolute highest quality. 2.) The absolute fastest delivery. 3.) The absolute lowest price. Now, pick two. That's the catch. Look at the industry and you see what's absent. OK, so a little of this is lamenting for the past. It happens as you get older...or more judgemental...but I do find it ironic that so many digital amp simulators use their 21st century cutting edge technology to reproduce a 1950's tube amp. What's my point? The industry is where the market led it. The design and quality standards are exactly what we've been asking for. What do you do now that you've discovered that it wasn't what you wanted? HTC1
all so true. I played in a band that I didn't like so much, they were super guys around my age, but musically I went along the drummer's son only! (guess why!). Then the singer/rythm guitarist passed away, mine and the drummer sons (same age) are preparing for univ (so we stupid dads must hold the book for them, be around, etc... welcome to Greece), so the band due to respect for the deceased and lack of time broke up. Some random guy I met on a Subaru-owner FB group wants me for lead guitar in their band, I'll form an opinion after I meet them, I don't have many choices to be precise!
regarding the rest you say, I wholeheartedly agree. I dont get how those young ppl can smile and laugh while being so lonely. Human touch is lost all over.
You can see it in metal as well : I cried with early Judas and Sabbath and all the music before that. My nephew?? He listened to Slipknot.. alright ... How can you express gentle feelings with this brutal industrial sounding music? and this comes from a guy - me - that wants to sound Djent-y as much as possible.. go figure ... wife accuses me of doing exercises all the time and not playing music... Guitar is a trap. I thought that with the Synth maybe I could expand to someth higher who knows.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 6, 2022 12:27:42 GMT -5
pyrroz, I discarded the SY-300 as being primarily a synth, without much in the way of modeling an amp. The SY-1000 does have a lot of control going for it, but eBay sellers seem to think it should go for around a cool thousand bucks!!! You haven't ever mentioned having a budget that large, so I just assumed.....
gc, Yes, pyrroz has had his ME-25 for several years, so I'm just assuming that he's already totally familiar with it. However, he did say something about investigating the GT-100, hence my link to Boss US for the manual(s). HTH sumgai Thank you SG. So you think with the sy-1000 I;ll be able to use it as pre-amp as well?
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Post by sumgai on Jan 6, 2022 15:36:26 GMT -5
pyrroz, I'm using the computer and browsing the web in short spurts, my meds are leaving me sometimes clear and sober, other times I feel like sleeping for the rest of the day. In short, since you've now mentioned synth guitar, I'll say only that in order to use this stuff to good effect, you should be musically proficient, you must play with clean technique (no sloppy fingering or picking), and above all, be patient. That last item..... there's a lot to learn in order to achieve and control what sounds you want to get. The basic sounds are fine, but even the manufacturers all say that the factory patches are only starting points. Modifying a patch to suit your desire and then saving it is only half of the fun - the other halve is in remembering what you did, and where you filed it!! (Bank and patch number.) Computer-based editing programs help with all of that, meaning you don't tear out as much hair along the learning path. I'll have more on that later, and I'll research the SY-1000 manual in a little while as well. Stay tuned, but while you're waiting, take a look at the manuals I linked earlier. The GR-55 has two synth channels and a modeler channel. Three different sounds, plus your normal pickups, all out of one guitar and one stompbox - and in mono or stereo! (But for the synth stuff, you'll need that dedicated hex pickup.) Also, I'm sure you're aware that Roland is not the only game in town when it comes to high-end guitar-synth equipment. You might look for Axon gear, they've got a large community of followers. gumbo and I just happen to be Roland users. (Completely coincidentally, he and I actually know each other from a Yahoo group centered on the GR-33, probably 5 years before RandomHero started The NutzHouse.) Nap time..... HTH sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 6, 2022 18:15:20 GMT -5
an amp sim through headphones or a sound card just won't cut it. I want to crank my Peavey to 11 I’ve got a 1000W powered PA speaker for that. If that’s not louder than your Peavey, I’ll grab one of my three others. If that’s still not enough, we could go downstairs and plug into the big Bose system.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 6, 2022 22:33:21 GMT -5
So you think with the sy-1000 I;ll be able to use it as pre-amp as well? In a word, yes. Here's the direct link to the Reference Manual, the one that has all the controllable parameters: static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SY-1000_reference_eng02_W.pdfOn page 55 you'll find the amp models (types), speaker parameters, and other controllable stuff. But I must caution you again, the cost of these babies is not for the faint of heart. HTH sumgai
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 7, 2022 3:44:36 GMT -5
So you think with the sy-1000 I;ll be able to use it as pre-amp as well? In a word, yes. Here's the direct link to the Reference Manual, the one that has all the controllable parameters: static.roland.com/assets/media/pdf/SY-1000_reference_eng02_W.pdfOn page 55 you'll find the amp models (types), speaker parameters, and other controllable stuff. But I must caution you again, the cost of these babies is not for the faint of heart. HTH sumgai
SG I think those are well spent money for a positive and good cause. Thank you for taking the time to search the exact page in the manual. By the looks of it ... I am sold!
sounds nice idea, has a good speaker, (maybe those are what gckelloch was referring to?).
But the BOSS sy-1000 ouch that seems to have ALL sounds of me-25 + + + many more synth tones, and a real synth, and also allows upgrading to the piezzo roland pickup... hmmm
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 7, 2022 3:54:22 GMT -5
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Post by gumbo on Jan 7, 2022 8:13:29 GMT -5
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 7, 2022 9:04:03 GMT -5
hi gumbo , that's the problem, the katana was simplistic and poor sounding, the sy-1000 is so rich but needs tons of study .... (which I cant afford) maybe I'll get it and use the defaults
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 7, 2022 14:35:46 GMT -5
Yeah. I mean, I think you could get more for cheaper. Frankly that just looks pretty small to me. That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I would wonder just a little bit about low end extension, and I would definitely take that "2000W peak power" with a big chunk of salt. Class D watts aren't really the same as analog watts. At best that would be absolute maximum peak power with some relatively high % of THD. You won't be able to get anything like that for actual program power. At a more fundamental level, power ratings in general don't really tell us much about how loud a thing is going to be. That depends almost completely on the efficiency (more commonly called sensitivity) of the drivers but also can be influenced by the design of the cabinet itself. The only real spec that matters is the actual SPL measurements, and I haven't been able to find that for this unit. Not that I tried all that hard. I was a little flip above re: my PA speakers, but honestly that 1000W thing (which is actually a full 15"+horn "main" type, but cost me about $100 less than this thing) - while plenty loud for me to get raging feedback in my living room and even want to wear headphones to "protect" myself from the assault - can sort of just barely keep up as a dedicated guitar amp in a loud live band kind of context. It is definitely more directional than most guitar cabs, so that it's REALLY LOUD if you point it right at your face, but as you move off axis, it drops off pretty fast - treble first of course. I think what I'm saying is that yes, you should look at that sort of FRFR speaker, but I would avoid things specifically marketed toward guitarists. There are plenty of options that will likely get you more power (and actual SPLs), possibly better frequency response, and probably more features (mine all have bluetooth, USB, SD, microphone inputs...) for the same if not less money.
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 7, 2022 15:36:07 GMT -5
Fantastic post ashcatlt , maybe I will go slowly till I start to learn things. Basically now I only know some guitar. Period. I'll have to learn more. You guys are like a mobile library!
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 7, 2022 17:19:45 GMT -5
Yeah, those cheap 1000W PA speakers I gave a link to list 150W program power, but that's still a lot of clean power. A Tube amp model should sound about as loud as a 100W tube amp through those depending on the speaker efficiency, although there won't be as much bass punch as a 4x12" cab. Cab size limits bass depth, so even a larger woofer would actually have less bass depth in the same size cab.
As far as dispersion, 4kHz+ from a 12" speaker is generally gone beyond 20d off-axis and 2kHz is gone beyond 40d. 4x12 cab dispersion is about half those numbers. A horn tweeter should still have ~10kHz out to at least 20d on the horizontal axis and still above a guitar speaker range at 40d. I don't know why the high end would seem to drop off more quickly from such a 2-way PA speaker. Maybe so on the vertical axis of a horn. I'd get two such speakers so you can get stereo effects, and more volume. Place them in room corners for maximum bass.
You may want a subwoofer at some point, but it might be good enough for guitar as is. Turning the bass up a bit might sound more natural. The 2-way Mackie PA 12" woofer PA speakers my bro got have a 5dB bass reduction shelf when the tone knobs are set flat. Corner placement might somewhat counter such a bass reduction, but you'd have to experiment with whatever you get. You could also look for some powered floor monitors. They would be louder at the same power level if closer to your ears. Again, you'll have to find a spot in a room where bass is most even.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 7, 2022 22:11:12 GMT -5
We've already discussed the wattage, and how that translates to real-world perceptions. Although I must say, a watt is a watt, electrically speaking - and the manufacturer quoted figures are electrical in nature. But the real reason for "high power" is headroom, the ability to react quickly and accurately to signal level changes, be they small or large. In most cases, more watts available means more headroom. But I'm sure there are exceptions, so let's keep that statement to being a general rule. I clicked the provided link, and I'm not impressed, vis-a-vis the "bang for the buck". The specs look good: FRFR108 has 129dB SPL and 52Hz-22KHz range. But other powered cabs can do that, and depending on the dealer, can be had at lower cost. And I looked at the unit's big brother, the FRFR112: 127dB SPL and 42Hz-22KHz. Not bad, almost down to the low-E string of a bass guitar (41Hz), but for a guitar, that should translate to a very good low end, which further translates to a more even sound throughout the guitar's range. But as with the '108, other cabs can do this too, for less money (in most cases). Now, a gently used pair of FRFR112's, that's something I'd consider buying and using. Plus a pair of poles to elevate them to ear level.
Since the SY-1000 has a GK input jack, that's a good way to do things in stages, as the wallet allows for upgrades. I'm a little leery of the cost, but there are an awful lot of goodies in there, even more than my GR-55. One of the things you'll like is that the SY-1000 can change the order of the effects you apply - don't want compression before the distortion? No problem, re-arrange the order the way you want. So, after more than an hour of reading, I'm seeing this: The GR-55 does all the basic stuff that the SY-1000 can do, but it's something like 12 years old, so the tonal quality is probably not as good as the newer all-in-one stompbox. Where I do see a gross difference is in the synth module. The GR-55 (and earlier GR models) has hundreds of pre-defined instruments, but each of those can be changed to suit (within some limits). The SY-1000 has a much smaller selection of pre-defintions to work from, but it has better controls over the various parameters, so I'd say it's probably a wash between them. GR-55 for the "up and running quickly" crowd, and SY-1000 for those who want to experiment for more personally satisfying tones. Again, probably a wash, neither one is superior to the other. So, if price is not your biggest obstacle, you have the time to spend on a learning curve (also about the same for the two units), and tonal quality is paramount to you, the I'd have to give the SY-1000 the nod. Two last items. The GR-55 has a computer based editor that is dedicated to it only. The SY-1000 uses the relatively new Boss Sound Studio, and that's tons better than a dedicated program. Make sure you get ahold of that, it'll save you a lot of time, and teach you more about the unit than the manual. Also, plan for a floorboard controller at some point. Putting the SY-1000 on the floor is cool, but there are times when the 8 footswitches just aren't enough. Even though they are programmable to some degree, that means that some given function is swapped out, and I guarantee you, you'll miss that function at some point. Better to use a (MIDI) floorboard controller. I've had a Behringer FCB-1010 for a long time, and it's still ticking just fine. Yes, you'll have to learn how to set it up in MIDI, which takes time, but once you get the hang of it, it goes quickly. Or you can get the PC-based editor for it, and be up and running even more quickly. That's enough for now, I gotta go eat. HTH sumgai
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 8, 2022 4:19:56 GMT -5
Thank you SG, I know mininal about MIDI, you remember at some point I tried to emulate Hamond Leslie organ, and I had bought some USD/MIDI converter which I used on some Yamaha keyboard my daughter had. I cannot quite follow you on the MIDI pedalfloor discussion.
Another problem is that I use Linux in two laptops, so I have no access to any MAC or Windows.
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Post by gumbo on Jan 8, 2022 6:16:28 GMT -5
FWIW, my friend Colin from New Zealand (aka "Gumtown" on the Vguitar Forum) has written 'Floorboard' editing software for the GR-55 and other Roland & Boss synths...a LOT easier and less complicated than the Boss Tone Studio stuff....all available for free through searches on the Vguitar Forum.. You can get an idea of what it's about by going straight to: www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=274.0...just saying... One can also get an acceptable FRFR-type response from an old Roland KEYBOARD amp or (as I do) a pair of Roland 'CUBE 60' amps on the JC-120 emulation channel, at least before going out and spending heaps on powered PA speakers...as these alternatives to 'normal' guitar-spec amps will (far more!) suit the output frequencies from a synth unit ... it all depends upon where you want to start and where you might (eventually) want to go. There are heaps of threads about guitar-synth amplification on that forum as well... www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?board=37.0HTH Cheers..
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Post by pyrroz on Jan 8, 2022 10:52:05 GMT -5
As you say gumbo , one thing at a time! In my age its hard to learn new tricks. I start to forget. I was with my daughter for some help in her programming class, and I could not remember how to redirect stderr to stdout .. go figure ..
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Post by ashcatlt on Jan 8, 2022 18:12:33 GMT -5
When I said “class D watts are different from analog”, it was maybe a bit lazy.
First of course class D amps are technically analog, so I guess probably more like as opposed to more traditional class A or class A/B.
But also it’s kind of that same thing we’ve had for years where you have to know exactly what the manufacturer (or marketing department) means by “watt”. Is that peak-to-peak or RMS? Is it like total available “surge” power that it can supply every once in a while without exploding, or is it maximum continuous average that it can handle before thermal protection kicks in? Perhaps more importantly, the question is exactly how much distortion was allowed in the calculation. We’ve known for years that the wattage rating on a car stereo amplifier probably has higher THD tolerance than say a hi-fi amplifier, but that consumer stereo equipment is still probably a bit looser in its spec than a reference amp for studio use, and from what I’ve seen and read, it seems like most of the people selling class D amp allow for quite a bit more distortion than other amps.
But kind of almost conversely, I think that actual tube amps are specified kind of low. That is, their ratings are often quoted at a level of THD that very few guitarists actually shoot for. Most of what we like about tube amps is the distortion. Even a relatively clean sound often actually has a lot more rounding of peaks than we’d ever accept in a hi-fi or PA. If we start talking about actual crunch, overdrive, and especially when we talk about high gain metal type sounds, we end up way past that lowish THD spec pretty quick. The RMS average of a sine wave with a given peak level (a proxy for a signal that just barely reaches our limit) is half the square root of 2 times the RMS of a square wave with the same peaks (which is about as distorted as you can get*), which means the square wave’s average is ~1.4 times that of the sine. BUT the saturation curve gets noticeably curvy (THD goes beyond spec) somewhere around 6db down from the actual limit. So, that dimed 100W Marshall or Mesa or 5150 could well be pushing over 200w RMS of raging brutal metal madness into the speakers...
Or something like that.
*Yes, we're aware that real amps can't actually give us square waves, but it doesn't much change the basic point.
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Post by sumgai on Jan 9, 2022 0:25:48 GMT -5
gumbo, That's two posts in a row that you not only did not derail the thread, but you actually gave better advice than I did! I'm impressed. Or should I be asking what kinda meds the doctor put you on? Your pal, sumgai pyrroz, gumbo is correct, that VGuitar website is probably your premier source on the entire web. I never joined, for various reasons, but I recognize a great number of those people from my days as a Yahoo Group moderator in the VG and GR communities. Knowledgeable and helpful, just like us Nutz. Don't worry so much about MIDI, it's not difficult, just time consuming - you enter each byte, usually two or three per command, and then save it to a patch (or to the entire system, at your desire). An editor is almost required for doing more than three or four patches. As to PC/Mac versus Linux, I'm on Zorin 16, and I installed VirtualBox. When I want to use AutoCAD, I fire up an instance of WinXP (because my version of ACAD is 20 years old). I also have virtual installs of Win7 and Win10, for those few times I need one of them. WINe is useful for most things, but there are still some glitches that mar the performance, hence the virtual machines. HTH sumgai p.s. In MS-DOS, stderr defaults to stdout. If it's been set in the environment to go elsewhere, and you temporarily need it to go to stdout, you ponder for a (long!) moment, then recall that the redirect pipe actually assumes that there is a "1" in front of the pipe symbol. "1" is for stdout, "2" is for stderr. Hence, you can direct an output thus: [some output] 1,2> con, and it will all show up on the console. (Which is usually the equivalent of stdout.) Note that there must be no space between the numerals and the greater-than sign. Similar constructs apply in most programming languages. (And yes, I just wrote that all from memory. Just because my head is slowly starting to look and feel like swiss cheese, that doesn't mean that it's all holes - there has to be some solid material in there, or we wouldn't be calling it swiss cheese, now would we? )
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