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Post by antigua on Dec 18, 2021 16:01:22 GMT -5
bw13 tipped me off to Donlis offering ivory colored humbuckers guitarnuts2.proboards.com/post/101902/thread , which they have offered for at least five years, but this is the first time I'd seen them offered with a nickel silver baseplate. In my analysis from the past I've never seen the baseplate metal cause a significant eddy current effect, whether it be brass, nickle silver or aluminum guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/7861/humbucker-base-plates-eddy-currents but it just feels nice to know that you have a pickup made with quality materials, if for it's own sake, especially when the price is a low low $40 for both pickups. Even to this day, I believe some DiMarzio pickups have brass baseplates, because even they must realize it's not functionally significant. And of course the availability of pickups of this particular color is limited, due to trademark shenanigans. The packaging and everything is really great. They come in a simple box, but wrapped in foil for maximum freshness and they even come with ivory colored mounting rings, sized for an import Les Paul style guitar, just incase the stock mounting rings are of a slightly different shade of ivory. It doesn't get mentioned enough because it has become so common, but the four conductor wire comes pre-stripped, and with the splitting leads, the red and white wire, already soldered together, as well as having the relative-negative soldered to the ground wire, which more or less gets rid of the need to provide a wiring diagram. I think even to this day if you order a DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan, you get four wires with the plastic sheath still in place, and you have to figure the wiring out using their provided diagram. It can be seen that it has an AlNiCo bar magnet and a plastic spacer. Some insist on a maple wood spacer in a PAF replica, but DiMarzio and Seymour Duncan has also used plastic spacers for decades. It's mostly boutique pickup makers that have used wood spacers, so I think it would be fair to said these are firmly Seymour Duncan-esque, quality wise, better than DiMarzio, but not as detail oriented as a boutique. The cheapest boutique quality humbucker I've found is the BYO Blizzard or '59, which has the wood spacer and vintage braded hookup wire, but that set costs twice as much at $80, and isn't offered in the ivory color. I haven't put these in a guitar yet, but I have the specs and they are indicative of a typical "P.A.F." replica set, with a 7k ohm / 4 henry neck and an 8k ohm / 5 henry bridge. It's like the de facto formula for success these days, so I expect they will sound great. They're neither "vintage hot" nor "underwound". The bode plots shows that the Q factor is typical, and it would be very surprising if it weren't, anyway. If you search google for "Donlis DHN22", you will find these pickups sold on a couple Chinese retail sites. Donlis DHN22 Ivory color 60's Vintage Alnico 5
Bridge
- DC Resistance: 8.749K ohms
- Q @1khz: 2.38
- Measured L: 5.502H
- Calculated C: 88.26pF
- Gauss: 250G (AlNiCo 5)
Neck
- DC Resistance: 7.575K ohms
- Q @1khz: 2.19
- Measured L: 4.320H
- Calculated C: 102.73pF
- Gauss: 250G (AlNiCo 5)
Bridge unloaded: dV: 7.8dB f: 7.05kHz (black)
Bridge loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 2.4dB f: 2.73kHz (blue)
Neck unloade dV: 6.1dB f: 7.21kHz (red)
Neck loaded (200k & 470pF): dV: 2.4dB f: 3.10kHz (green)
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Post by gckelloch on Dec 19, 2021 6:26:13 GMT -5
Just goes to show how simple PAF-type pickups are. Assuming the coils don't have any semi-shorts (modern pickups generally don't), they should sound like any other PAF of similar spec. You might consider what type of magnets you want b4 installing them. Swapping might be pretty easy. FI, A4 has slightly lower Guass than A5, but the much higher permeability pulls the strings flux lines into the pickup more for a warmer note timbre. I got a pair of A4 magnets from Philidelphia Luthiers I'm waiting to put in one of my guitars. You might want that for just the bridge pickup, but I find the attack of the 7.8k Ohm GFS Vintage '59 in the neck of my Switch 'Aurora Stealth' is too thin sounding even with my 160pF cable. I might put the A4's in that guitar, but the neck isn't temperature stable because it's closed-cell Polyurethane foam, and the FB is "Ebonite". It actually bends so the action raises while my hands warm it up. I'd have to somehow keep it at the same temp for that not to happen -- major P.I.T.A.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Dec 27, 2021 5:49:19 GMT -5
yes ! on it, this is great !
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Dec 27, 2021 5:54:40 GMT -5
waiting to hear how it sounds...
also waiting to get in studio to wire fleor jb clone in parallel
by the way never had big biznis with donlis ? how long does shipping take ?
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Post by antigua on Dec 30, 2021 14:39:00 GMT -5
waiting to hear how it sounds... also waiting to get in studio to wire fleor jb clone in parallel by the way never had big biznis with donlis ? how long does shipping take ? It took exactly three weeks, which is fast by AliExpress standards. I'm certain the will sound good, there are no technical deficiencies to speak of. AlNiCo magnets, quality metals. The electrical specs match with other pickups that sound good and are very popular. The 7k neck 8k bridge specs are common among boutique makers and generic low cost pickups alike.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Jan 5, 2022 13:57:09 GMT -5
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Post by gckelloch on Jan 6, 2022 4:11:40 GMT -5
Those partial metal covers may have some effect on the tone via eddy-currents, and they make it very difficult to swap magnets if you want to at some point. I'd go for the Donlis.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Jan 16, 2022 20:57:33 GMT -5
an offtopic question kind gentlemen as far as output goes parallel wiring should be like for example if humbucker in series is 16ohm parallel would be around 4 right? but that's not the only thing right (considering gauss, indurance, etc) ? so my question is does volume "technically" drops when in parallel mode ? or gainwise ? i know dumb question but ... it cuts the mids ... sounds more like p90ish like people say (never tried it myself in bridge position). well the thing is i don't like humbucker midrange at all ... so that's why i became curious about paf-ish pickups (i think lower output should push down mids a little) edit: p.s. i remember having phat cats with alnico 2 magnets ... and as i remember i hated the sound of a2 ... was too woobly, but in humbucker case my friend has gibson les paul 1960 traditional with '57 Classic Plus Pickups (a2) and that's the only les paul i like ... not a gibson guy by any means and i just found the very same donlis pickups with alnico 2 magnets ... so my another question is would it have less mids and more bottom end? by the way the model number and description is the same DHN22 which seems kinda shady but anyway here they are : www.aliexpress.com/item/32725181955.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.27.6ab470e8tqbl1P
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Post by antigua on Jan 20, 2022 11:45:15 GMT -5
an offtopic question kind gentlemen as far as output goes parallel wiring should be like for example if humbucker in series is 16ohm parallel would be around 4 right? but that's not the only thing right (considering gauss, indurance, etc) ? so my question is does volume "technically" drops when in parallel mode ? or gainwise ? i know dumb question but ... it cuts the mids ... sounds more like p90ish like people say (never tried it myself in bridge position). well the thing is i don't like humbucker midrange at all ... so that's why i became curious about paf-ish pickups (i think lower output should push down mids a little) edit: p.s. i remember having phat cats with alnico 2 magnets ... and as i remember i hated the sound of a2 ... was too woobly, but in humbucker case my friend has gibson les paul 1960 traditional with '57 Classic Plus Pickups (a2) and that's the only les paul i like ... not a gibson guy by any means and i just found the very same donlis pickups with alnico 2 magnets ... so my another question is would it have less mids and more bottom end? by the way the model number and description is the same DHN22 which seems kinda shady but anyway here they are : www.aliexpress.com/item/32725181955.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.27.6ab470e8tqbl1PYeah in parallel, the output drops. The amount of voltage being produced by each coil is the same, in series it would add together, but in parallel, each coil acts as a load upon the other, dropping the overall voltage output. The funny consequence of that, is that whichever coil would be louder in series, due to having more turns of wire on it, becomes the quieter coil in parallel, because it's more loaded down by the quieter coil, than the quieter coil is of it. That's why parallel mode is about the same output as using any one of the coils alone. There's technically no mid scoop, the resonant peak just increase and adds more treble while also dropping in overall output, which people perceive as a drop in the mids. I don't think a humbucker in parallel sounds anything like P-90, they're not even technically similar. A P-90 has an inductance of around 7 henries, a parallel PAF around 2 henries, so they're on opposite ends of the spectrum. A P-90 sounds much fatter and thicker. Because a P-90 only has one coil and one row of pole pieces, it pickups up more harmonics than a PAF's two coils, and that lends it brightness a 7 henry PAF doesn't have (like a JB for example) but I don't think the tone is comparable. The P-90 picks up mids through physical means, where as a parallel PAF picks up treble through electrical means, and it's a different sound profile.
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Post by ms on Jan 22, 2022 6:04:06 GMT -5
an offtopic question kind gentlemen as far as output goes parallel wiring should be like for example if humbucker in series is 16ohm parallel would be around 4 right? but that's not the only thing right (considering gauss, indurance, etc) ? so my question is does volume "technically" drops when in parallel mode ? or gainwise ? i know dumb question but ... it cuts the mids ... sounds more like p90ish like people say (never tried it myself in bridge position). well the thing is i don't like humbucker midrange at all ... so that's why i became curious about paf-ish pickups (i think lower output should push down mids a little) edit: p.s. i remember having phat cats with alnico 2 magnets ... and as i remember i hated the sound of a2 ... was too woobly, but in humbucker case my friend has gibson les paul 1960 traditional with '57 Classic Plus Pickups (a2) and that's the only les paul i like ... not a gibson guy by any means and i just found the very same donlis pickups with alnico 2 magnets ... so my another question is would it have less mids and more bottom end? by the way the model number and description is the same DHN22 which seems kinda shady but anyway here they are : www.aliexpress.com/item/32725181955.html?spm=a2g0o.store_pc_groupList.8148356.27.6ab470e8tqbl1PYeah in parallel, the output drops. The amount of voltage being produced by each coil is the same, in series it would add together, but in parallel, each coil acts as a load upon the other, dropping the overall voltage output. The funny consequence of that, is that whichever coil would be louder in series, due to having more turns of wire on it, becomes the quieter coil in parallel, because it's more loaded down by the quieter coil, than the quieter coil is of it. That's why parallel mode is about the same output as using any one of the coils alone. There's technically no mid scoop, the resonant peak just increase and adds more treble while also dropping in overall output, which people perceive as a drop in the mids. I don't think a humbucker in parallel sounds anything like P-90, they're not even technically similar. A P-90 has an inductance of around 7 henries, a parallel PAF around 2 henries, so they're on opposite ends of the spectrum. A P-90 sounds much fatter and thicker. Because a P-90 only has one coil and one row of pole pieces, it pickups up more harmonics than a PAF's two coils, and that lends it brightness a 7 henry PAF doesn't have (like a JB for example) but I don't think the tone is comparable. The P-90 picks up mids through physical means, where as a parallel PAF picks up treble through electrical means, and it's a different sound profile. If the two identical sources are put in parallel, the output should not drop. Into an infinite load, its should stay the same. When loaded, it should go up since a lower impedance source is driving the load. With hum bucking pickup coils it is a bit more complicated since they do not sample quite the same signal from the string, nor are they exactly identical. But I would not expect the output to drop much, if at all.
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Post by antigua on Jan 22, 2022 23:38:34 GMT -5
Yeah in parallel, the output drops. The amount of voltage being produced by each coil is the same, in series it would add together, but in parallel, each coil acts as a load upon the other, dropping the overall voltage output. The funny consequence of that, is that whichever coil would be louder in series, due to having more turns of wire on it, becomes the quieter coil in parallel, because it's more loaded down by the quieter coil, than the quieter coil is of it. That's why parallel mode is about the same output as using any one of the coils alone. If the two identical sources are put in parallel, the output should not drop. Into an infinite load, its should stay the same. When loaded, it should go up since a lower impedance source is driving the load. With hum bucking pickup coils it is a bit more complicated since they do not sample quite the same signal from the string, nor are they exactly identical. But I would not expect the output to drop much, if at all. In series, you would have whatever existing load exists, but in parallel you would have that existing load and the other other coil, and it can be seen in testing that with two mismatched coils, the coil of lower impedance contributes more voltage in the final output because it's load increases less than the coil with higher impedance. But supposing the above is not true, why aren't parallel humbuckers as loud as series, and what could be done to make a humbucker in parallel just as loud as it would be in series?
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Post by ms on Jan 23, 2022 9:42:25 GMT -5
Oh, I see. I was using the output of one coil as a reference. Series makes the output go up, doubling into an infinite load. Parallel with identical coils, sampling, and an infinite load should stay the same as a single coil. Parallel has lower impedance than single coil and therefore can drive a given load harder. Of course, the resonant frequency might be too high with parallel, putting the peak above the desired frequency/
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Feb 2, 2022 16:18:17 GMT -5
by the way on taobao donlis pickups are called BAOYOU DONGLI so there's a chance that BYO and donlis are the same manufacture with little tweaks
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Post by antigua on Feb 2, 2022 21:56:49 GMT -5
by the way on taobao donlis pickups are called BAOYOU DONGLI so there's a chance that BYO and donlis are the same manufacture with little tweaks Can you explain what you mean? I've looked at Donlis' current selection and I didn't see what you were referring to.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Feb 15, 2022 15:45:48 GMT -5
taobao is like aliexpress but only for china ... they have same proucts but faily cheaper as i'm georgian [rep] i use flight forwarding companies from ali, amazon, ebay etc... so i have addresses pretty much everywhere ... (on taobao pickup prices are cheaper but insignificantly, so i rather ship pickups with free shipping in usa and then pay 7$ per kg to georgia rather than 17$ directly from china) (bummer their shipping cost was waay to cheaper a while ago ... so buying from china made sense) but anyway i looked for same fleor and donlis on taobao website and i found out that donlis name for chinese buyers is BAOYOU DONGLI, language is not my strongest side but i thought from the letters that BYO and donlis might be same factory/company ... but byo is more for targeted customers so they do little more tweaks to their oem pickups and sell em to plebs for more ... i know it's not an accurate theory but well... that's what i thought and while we are on that matter ... if you know anything about harley benton guitars (thomann exclusive) and Jack and Danny brothers (musicstore.de exlusive) on their like deluxe guitars they use rosewell pickups and they have fairly interesting stuff ... like gfs but even more crazy ... like tele in humbucker enclosure and stuff like that i think that's exactly your cup of tea so you should definitely check em out (they sold seperately on musicstore.de) (but you can find their whole catalog on their website annnnd sorry but another offtopic ...but the other day i thought .... i have several options to go with (i only need bridge pickup): 1). donlis dhn22 (just because fleor jb clones are too hot for my taste and has too much mids) 2). donlis dhn22 (alnico2) never used alnico 2 humbuckers but i love the sound of my friens gibson traditional 1960 (57 classic) sound 3). donlis p90 (humbucker enclosure nickel silver baseplate) p90's worked for me my whole life, but phat cats with alnico 2's are no go (sold em) so alnico 5 might work (rosewell also has one) 4). aaand here's the new one ... if i'm stuck between humbucker and p90 maybe i should try wide range ... i looked it up on aliexpress but apparently they don't have full size ones anymore, though if you google it on google images it will show they had em, then i went to guitar fetish and they have em ... rosewell also, but it's interesting to know ... are the polepieces the magnets themselves or they have a bar magnet and steel polepieces. emailed guitar fetish and waiting for an answer. btw i have MIK burns tri sonic neck pickup (also bought from ali) (i think they are oem for club series) and i can honestly say that i found my neck pickup sound on my jaguar but i'm looking for something new-ish for my bridge pickup (tele, p90, jazzmaster pickup guy) but not to go way to far from roots (high output pickup was overkill) don't get me wrong i know 30 bucks is nothing but in my country our currency is 3 to 1 so i'm basically paying the same you'd pay for duncans etc. +covid had a blast with handwound lollars and tv jones for a while but that's unfortunatelly in the past ... but still if i could i would go with asian companies as i'm getting aware of whole made in usa bs ... nobody smashes anvil and molds baseplates in usa, come on thats ridiculous, could say the same about fender ash tray bridges string trees etc... and to prove my point, at some point i'm about to build a telly mostly with donlis parts (nitro body, nitro neck) donlis a5/2 pickups and battle it with my friends 52ri. btw some guy did the same with harley benton and fender tele 52ri, look it up on youtube, it's really funny for the nerds so whole proudly made in usa to me is a scam... just say it was built in usa .. for the sake of quality control p.s. found these as well: www.aliexpress.com/item/4000278371592.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.771d65ffhThL72&algo_pvid=fdaf6d11-8237-4c8c-a252-fec94bd5442e&algo_exp_id=fdaf6d11-8237-4c8c-a252-fec94bd5442e-4&pdp_ext_f=%7B"sku_id"%3A"10000001135959598"%7D&pdp_pi=-1%3B71.04%3B-1%3B-1%40salePrice%3BGEL%3Bsearch-mainSearch
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Post by antigua on Feb 15, 2022 23:35:14 GMT -5
taobao is like aliexpress but only for china ... they have same proucts but faily cheaper as i'm georgian [rep] i use flight forwarding companies from ali, amazon, ebay etc... I was able to get into Taobao, but I couldn't find "BAOYOU DONGLI". Still, I see them selling pickups and parts for less than a dollar a piece, I can't even wrap my head around it. I see them selling Bare Knuckle Pickups for $20 item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=a230r.1.14.146.77454dce8844G8&id=659188029870&ns=1&abbucket=14#detail , it doesn't look counterfeit, it looks high quality and as close to the real deal as it possible could. Even though I've bought and tested a lot of pickups, I still mostly tend to buy them if I have a plan to use them, and what I've been needing lately are PAF clones with nickel silver covers, and I haven't been seeing much except the BYO Blizzards, and the Donlis, and these are pickups I've already documented in the past. If you see more on the market, I'm interested. I haven't see a direct copy of the BYO on AliExpress or Taobao. There are some distinct traits to look for, for some of their models. They looked like David Allen pickups, a domestic seller which has gone low key lately. The main thing about domestic PAF replicas, and one BYO set on back order, are raw/unpolished nickel silver covers, and base plates with a single hole in them, one for the bridge and one for the neck pickup, where as most Chinese base plates have two holes so that the same base plate can be used for the neck or the bridge pickup. I don't know where domestic makers source their parts, but I agree that its improbable that winder who seem to have little more than a Mojo winder in their garage, are also equipped to stamp and electroplate metal parts. I haven't really looked into that aspect of it because I'm not in to making and selling pickups, and I haven't made it a point to sniff out fraud with domestic makers, I'll just point it out if I happen across it serendipitously. I think the fact that you can buy good pickups for under $80, often as little as $20, should be reason enough to skip the domestic market, regardless of whatever fraud that might be occurring there. The price delta is so high that it's hard to believe there isn't any fraud occurring.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Feb 16, 2022 6:26:39 GMT -5
i don't remember exactly but i translated either "donlis" or a "humbucker" (or both) and found several ones, when i visited the store all of em were under the hood of BAYOU DONGLI so that's that i have to look on alibaba as well ... The price delta is so high that it's hard to believe there isn't any fraud occurring
^ that ... i'm like 99% sure that literally no one molds bobbin, baseplates or a wire themselves, though it's belivable to check each and one component quality controlwise (hence "made in usa" and not "assembled in usa" fraud, not even a fraud it's just a lie) i will look up for a link you sent of BK s when i get home ... it's a real pain to verify your account everytime you sign in on taobao ... takes forever to get phone verification but ... logically duncans sold on ali, i think you should get em for an experiment cuz again in terms of fraud ... there are waaay more manufacturers of guitars that come stock with duncans emgs etc... not only made in usa ones or usa brand ones made overseas but lesser known brands as well so i reaaaally doubt that one or two factory in us can grasp all of em, to me it's technically impossible (well that's exactly a fraud) p.s. what do you think about pickups i posted earlier? (6 hex and 6 adjustable pole piece) p.s.s. in whole pickup spectrum i think you're the one who just must have a youtube account, there's literally no channel which does pickup inspection/comparison what you do ... not even close, and to wrap it up with sound samples ... not the whole which pickp gives you more wonderwall sound ... i mean more percise ... like plucking one string is enough p.s.s.s. now i'm reeeally into finding out about rosewell pickups oem manufacturer, they have charlie christian pickups ! in a classic, tele aaaand Humucker(!) enclosure too!
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Post by mikecg on Jul 28, 2023 16:45:52 GMT -5
Hello there, My first post here - so let me say that I am very impressed with all the work you have done on pickup testing - just goes to show that these things are far from simple! My first question is just to seek clarification on the true identity of the Donlis DHN22 pickup featured in this posting, as I am thinking of this model for my next project. Accoording to the Donlis web site the DHN22 is an Alnico 2 pickup, but you have it down as a Alnico 5? There is also an almost identical model DHN52 listed on the Donlis site and that is an Alnico 5 pickup. I have tried to pin down the answer to this riddle by comparing your DCR and inductance measurements to the specs shown on the Donlis site - but your measurements and their specs do not seem to match very well!
Hoping you can shed some light on this puzzle -
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Aug 9, 2023 21:03:38 GMT -5
Hello there, My first post here - so let me say that I am very impressed with all the work you have done on pickup testing - just goes to show that these things are far from simple! My first question is just to seek clarification on the true identity of the Donlis DHN22 pickup featured in this posting, as I am thinking of this model for my next project. Accoording to the Donlis web site the DHN22 is an Alnico 2 pickup, but you have it down as a Alnico 5? There is also an almost identical model DHN52 listed on the Donlis site and that is an Alnico 5 pickup. I have tried to pin down the answer to this riddle by comparing your DCR and inductance measurements to the specs shown on the Donlis site - but your measurements and their specs do not seem to match very well! Hoping you can shed some light on this puzzle - Hi, donlis dhn52 and 22 are the same except the magnet but some color variations like cream had/or has just same description ... Not a problem if the name of product says its fe:52 ... Also with output and henries there's always a small mismatch so you're good to go... You can write a seller as well after a purchase to be 100% sure you're getting what you want..even duncans have a slight mismatch
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Post by mikecg on Aug 12, 2023 14:58:05 GMT -5
Hi, donlis dhn52 and 22 are the same except the magnet but some color variations like cream had/or has just same description ... Not a problem if the name of product says its fe:52 ... Also with output and henries there's always a small mismatch so you're good to go... You can write a seller as well after a purchase to be 100% sure you're getting what you want..even duncans have a slight mismatch Hello bw13, and thanks for your reply. This thread, originally created by 'Antigua', shows Antigua's measurements (bode plot) of a Donlis humbucker he identifies as a DHN22, however he also states that the DHN22 has an Alnico 5 magnet - and this does not appear to be correct, as the DHN22 has an Alnico 2 magnet. So, what I would like to know, is to which Donlis pickup does the measured bode plot in this thread refer to? Is it the DHN22 with the Alnico 2, or the DHN52 with the Alnico 5? Does anyone know the answer to this puzzle? Thanks again.
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bw13
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Post by bw13 on Aug 17, 2023 18:19:52 GMT -5
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Post by mikecg on Aug 18, 2023 15:40:28 GMT -5
Hello and thanks again for your reply. I have messaged 'antigua' regarding my query - but so far - no response? However, there is a clue in his measurement data. He measured 250 Gauss magnetic field strength - and I'm pretty sure that is typical for Alnico 2, as it would have to be around 350 Gauss for alnico 5. So, I'm pretty sure his bode measurement refers to a Donlis model DHN22 with an Alnico 2 magnet, and not an Alnico 5 as stated in his description. i.e. there is an error in antigua's description, in this particular case. I'm not sure what you are saying about the different colour choices - Donlis offers DHN22 and DHN52 in both colour choices on their web site. As you point out - the only difference is that the 22 is Alnico 2, and the 52 is Alinico 5. I suspect that the bode plot for the 22 and the 52 will be very similar - if not identical, but since I have read that the Alnico 2 produces a more 'musical' tone, than the Alinico 5, and since antigua's measurement of his DHN22 (Alnico 2 confirmed?) shows that it has a very similar frequency response to the Seymour Duncan SH-2 (Jazz) pickup, I have gone ahead and ordered the DHN22 black set. In fact they arrived here, yesterday - so I will be doing some measurements on them very soon. Thanks again -
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Post by antigua on Aug 19, 2023 13:36:54 GMT -5
When I bought the set, they said it was AlNiCo 5. The gauss reading of 250G, which is more often associated with AlNiCo 5, but that's not a very reliable way of distinguishing AlNiCo bars in PAFs. It's a lot easier to tell the AlNiCo properties of single coils, because the difference in Q factor and gauss strength is immediately apparent, but with bar magnets, the Q factor and gauss strength barely changes at all from one to the next. If you for sure want a particular grade, it's probably easier to just buy the magnet and swap the magnets out. Also for AlNiCo 2 double cream, Gibson is now offering the 57 Classic in this color www.gibson.com/en-US/Product/57-Classic-Exclusive/PU57DCW2 there's a lot of talk on the forums about how they are doing this without getting sued by DiMarzio, whether there's a license deal or not. They're not as cheap as Donlis, but much of the purchase cost is retained in the value of name brand guitar parts. I just noticed under "bobbin" it says "AlNiCo 2", I didn't notice that before. Maybe Donlis' listing was messed up, but even if they claimed it were AlNiCo 2, I don't really trust that you would get AlNiCo 2. I'm impressed with what you get for the money, but assurance over the AlNiCo grade is not one of those assurances IMO. It's probably better to buy the magnets outright and swap them if you want to have certainty. Personally I think the magnet grade in PAF's is blown out of proportion, it makes a much bigger difference in Fender single coil type pickups.
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Post by mikecg on Aug 19, 2023 18:33:27 GMT -5
When I bought the set, they said it was AlNiCo 5. The gauss reading of 250G, which is more often associated with AlNiCo 5, but that's not a very reliable way of distinguishing AlNiCo bars in PAFs. It's a lot easier to tell the AlNiCo properties of single coils, because the difference in Q factor and gauss strength is immediately apparent, but with bar magnets, the Q factor and gauss strength barely changes at all from one to the next. If you for sure want a particular grade, it's probably easier to just buy the magnet and swap the magnets out. Also for AlNiCo 2 double cream, Gibson is now offering the 57 Classic in this color www.gibson.com/en-US/Product/57-Classic-Exclusive/PU57DCW2 there's a lot of talk on the forums about how they are doing this without getting sued by DiMarzio, whether there's a license deal or not. They're not as cheap as Donlis, but much of the purchase cost is retained in the value of name brand guitar parts. I just noticed under "bobbin" it says "AlNiCo 2", I didn't notice that before. Maybe Donlis' listing was messed up, but even if they claimed it were AlNiCo 2, I don't really trust that you would get AlNiCo 2. I'm impressed with what you get for the money, but assurance over the AlNiCo grade is not one of those assurances IMO. It's probably better to buy the magnets outright and swap them if you want to have certainty. Personally I think the magnet grade in PAF's is blown out of proportion, it makes a much bigger difference in Fender single coil type pickups. Hello antigua, and thanks for your detailed reply! As you point out, it looks like the info you had from Donlis contains conflicting information on magnet type - my guess is that you may well have Alnico 2 in your pickups! As a matter of interest - elsewhere on the Donlis website - they offer the Alnico 2 and 5 bar magnets for people that want to experiment, or build their own pickups, so I guess if one has doubts about what has been supplied inside of a 'factory made' pickup one can buy those magnets and do some experimenting! Anyway, I received a set of the black DHN22 recently and I thought you might be interested in seeing my preliminary measurements - taken with my trusty Agilent U1733C handheld LCR meter: Donlis DHN22 Bridge: DCR, L (@100hz), & Q (@1 KHz): black/white winding (A): 4.27 k Ohm, 2.31 H & Q of 2.44. red/green winding (B): 4.39 k Ohm & 2.30 H & Q of 2.05. I did the capacitance measurements at 100 kHz with and without the shield connection, yielding three measurements per winding: C (@100 kHz): winding(A): 92.2 pF (no shield connection), 79.3 pF (black to shield), 78.6 pF (white to shield) winding(B): 76.7 pF (no shield connection), 75.1 pF (red to shield), 73.9 pF (green to shield) Then I measured L, Q & C for the standard series connected windings: 5.47 H (c.f. your measurement of 5.50 H) & Q of 2.42 (c.f. your measurement of 2.38) C (series connection) with no shield connection: 56 pF, & with shield connected to black: 86 pF (c.f. your measurement of 88.2 pF) As I intend to experiment with a parallel connection - (see my post, in your post on 'EMG clone' measurements), I also measured L, Q & C for the windings in parallel, black connected to red, and green connected to white, giving: L of 1.38 H & Q of 2.41. C (parallel connection) with no shield connection: 151 pF, with shield connected to black/red: 236 pF, & with shield connected to green/white: 246 pF. Donlis DHN22 Neck: DCR, L (@100hz), & Q (@1 KHz): black/white winding (A): 3.67 k Ohm, 1.88 H & Q of 2.31. red/green winding (B): 3.76 k Ohm & 1.86 H & Q of 1.82. I did the capacitance measurements at 100 kHz with and without the shield connection, yielding three measurements per winding: C (@100 kHz): winding(A): 104 pF (no shield connection), 132 pF (black to shield), 136 pF (white to shield) winding(B): 92 pF (no shield connection), 121 pF (red to shield), 124 pF (green to shield) Then I measured L & C for the standard series connected windings: 4.32 H (c.f. your measurement of 4.32 H!) & Q of 2.22 (c.f. your measurement of 2.19) C (series connection) with no shield connection: 66 pF, & with shield connected to black: 104 pF (c.f. your measurement of 102 pF) As I intend to experiment with a parallel connection - (see my post, in your post on 'EMG clone' measurements), I also measured L, Q & C for the windings in parallel, black connected to red, and green connected to white, giving: L of 1.09 H & Q of 2.21. C (parallel connection) with no shield connection: 193 pF, with shield connected to black/red: 240 pF, & with shield connected to green/white: 247 pF. First impressions are that my measurements are in very close agreement with yours and this gives me some confidence that the manufacturing tolerances at Donlis are of a very good standard - so - Alnico 2 may actually mean - Alnico 2! And since i am new around here, let me say that I am very impressed with all the work you and many other kindred spirits have put into shedding light on the 'dark arts' of guitar pickup design!
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