Removing Black Paint Off Blonde Tolex

[solderburn]

Hi all, 

Recently I bought a 1962 Fender Showman. I was lucky to get it for a good price, but when i finally received it i could see that it wasn't just dirty, it had been painted black, then the pervert had hastily stripped it in an attempt to bring it back to it's original color.  So after getting some great advice from a member on the SG101 forum to use Acetone, i was able to remove the remaining paint.  I thought it turned out well, so i just wanted to share the trick, in case anyone here ever finds themselves in the same situation.  

A bit more about the condition; the knobs look new, so i can only assume they're replacements, it was missing the handle, backplate, bottom screen, and piggyback hardware.  The original 2-prong power cable has been previously replaced with a safe 3-prong cable.  It's always nice to not be electrocuted to death.  

Other than the preamp section, i believe most of the caps are original.  I'm going to take it in to a local shop to get a proper check up, but i just wanted to ask you guys if you could please tell me if this still has the "Death Cap".  I certainly won't be touching anything internal since i don't know what i'm doing in there, but i just want to know out of curiosity.
  
I tested a lot of different cleaning solutions on the bottom. After trying Pear's soap and water, Shampoo, Lexol, Murphy's Oil Soap, Simple Green, diluted dish soap, all with a tooth brush, i ended up using a quick wipe down of bleach and water (in case it was mold), then rubbing alcohol in small patches, with a dental pick, to individually break-up/pick-out the black substance from each individual recess!  It looked better than before, but i knew it wouldn't ever be a showpiece. I just wanted keep it original as possible, no re-tolexing, that would be cheating. This amp is at least 59 years old, it's fine with me if it looks that way. I didn't want to erase it's history. With that said, i knew i had to keep cleaning.  Finally a gentleman on SG101 said that he used acetone on his blonde tolex amp, and it worked like a charm.  He was so right!  

Here's a close up of the atrocity, not all of it looked that bad, but this part really shows how the black is in the recesses, and the high parts of the rough textured tolex have been taken down in an effort by the previous abuser to "restore" it. This pic was taken before any attempt to clean.



Here's some pics of the process... 

The grille cloth came up fairly clean after a few sprays of foam carpet cleaner then gently blotting off the brown water. 3X.

[newey]

Newey "The Grammar Nazi" feels compelled to point out that "electrocuted to death" is redundant. If you didn't die, you may have had an "electrical shock injury", but you were not "electrocuted".

But on a more serious note, you did a heckuva job on the clean up. Came out much better than I would have expected.

Now you need to go full Dick Dale and hang the Showman head and your tube reverb unit by rope harnesses from the ceiling . . .

[solderburn]

haha! Thanks newey, I'll leave my mistake in for the sake of continuity.  Pun intended. 

And I think Dick Dale would hang his reverb unit, but not the Showman head, i could be mistaken though.  These things certainly rumble!  I hope my neighbors like loud surf music, probably not, but i don't care.  They've called the cops before.   Luckily for them, I can't play it until i have a proper cab, but it's just a matter of time... 

[sumgai]

soddy,


Hard to tell from that single image, but I do believe that the cap is still in there. Reason being, the "Ground" switch is still present, and usually that gets removed along with the cap when a three-wire power cord is installed. Look again, and if there are any wires going to that switch, then tell the shop tech that you want it removed, and to double-check to make sure that the upgrade (the 3-wire power cord) was done correctly. The previous person(s) working on it may not have known what they were doing, ya know....

All of your caps look original to me.  But the big resistors (1 watt units) across the four power tubes... I can't quite make out the color code/value for each.  If the power tubes are original spec (5881), then Fender called for a 470Ω value.  (This from the 6G14A schematic, found at: Schematic Heaven.)  In later versions, the 6L6 usually called for an 820Ω value.  Other amp circuits have gone as high as 1.5KΩ.... it all depends, but sometimes it's good to start with the fundamentals.

And nice find!  I'd be jealous, if I were still playing! 

HTH




sumgai

[solderburn]

Thanks, Sumgai, for the wealth of info!  Will do. 

I dropped it off today, and should have it back in a few weeks.  Gives me some time to wrangle a speaker cab. The tech said that the resistors on the power tubes were replaced, but are the correct value, so that's good. He also said that a bias pot was added, which is a useful mod.


Here's some more detail pics from when i had it all opened up, though i wish i had the foresight to have taken a close up pic of the area with the ground switch.  

[newey]

Dec 30, 2021 21:17:03 GMT -5 solderburn said:

Gives me some time to wrangle a speaker cab

IIRC, if it had a single 15" speaker, it was the "Showman", and if it had a 2X15" cab, it was the "Dual Showman"? Do I have that right?

You simply have to do justice to this thing, it needs a 15" or two. I DIY'd my 15" cab from an unfinished cab I got off Ebay, it turned out really well, sounds great. Get some cream Tolex to match (close, anyway, with the aging it won't be a perfect match) the head, and you're in business.

Or, go 18". Kustom used to make a 1X18" cab back in the day (again, if memory serves), and people also used to pull 18s out of Hammond Organs to put in guitar cabs. Size does matter, despite what I tell the wife.

[solderburn]

Amen, newey.  You preach the gospel. I'm aiming for a single 15" tone ring cabinet with a JBL D130F with aluminum dust cap.  They are rare, and not cheap, but that's what i'm setting out to find.  I've never built a speaker cab before, and while i believe that i could do it, i know that a tone ring cab is a bit more complicated than a standard closed back.  I'm currently scouring the web for diagrams, dimensions, and possible custom builds.  At this point i think i'll try to find the speaker on ebay or reverb.com, and get a period correct cab made by Mather cabs, or Beaver Bottoms.  Money is the only thing impeding the process, of course.  I wasn't even planning on buying the Showman, but when i saw a PSA on SG101, i knew i had to try to snag it and figure out the rest after the fact. 

[reTrEaD]

Dec 30, 2021 14:36:22 GMT -5 solderburn said:

Other than the preamp section, i believe most of the caps are original.  I'm going to take it in to a local shop to get a proper check up, but i just wanted to ask you guys if you could please tell me if this still has the "Death Cap". 

Here's a gutshot of a Blondie I found on teh interwebz that has the death cap still in place.




It's the amber colored cap going from the ground switch to the solder lug at upper-right bolt for the power transformer. That solder lug is where the ground wire from the line cord in your amp is now connected. Your death cap appears to be removed.

Be sure to have your amp tech inspect the caps in the doghouse. If they appear to be 10 years old or older, I'd recommend a cap job. If he does a cap job, have him replace ALL the electrolytics, even the cathode bypass caps on the eyelet board and the caps on the bias board as well as those in the doghouse.

Insist on caps that have a 105 degree temperature rating. F&T and Sprague make dependable caps. Avoid IC (Illinois Capacitor) as they have a history of short service life.

The main reservoir cap in a Blonde (6G14 schematic) consists of two 20uF, 600v caps in parallel. Blackface Showman amps (AB763 and later) used two 70uF, 350v caps in SERIES with a pair of 220k, 1watt resistors as a voltage divider so that each cap sees 1/2 the total supply voltage. Personally I prefer the Blackface configuration. A little extra margin in voltage is not a bad thing and those divider resistors act as bleeders. I consider that a good thing.

[solderburn]

Retread, thanks for educating me about the Death Cap, and then some!  That's super helpful!

I'll relay those specs to the tech.  He's highly recommended here in southern California, his name is Tim Pinnell at Top Gear Guitar Pro Shop in La Mesa CA.  

[reTrEaD]

Dec 31, 2021 2:04:27 GMT -5 solderburn said:

Retread, thanks for educating me about the Death Cap, and then some!  That's super helpful!

I'll relay those specs to the tech.  He's highly recommended here is southern California, his name is Tim Pinnell at Top Gear Guitar Pro Shop in La Mesa CA.  

In that case he probably knows more about these gems than I do.

An amp tech knows that every time your amp comes back you'll pay a bench charge. A great tech will encourage you to authorize the work that will make the amp reliable and increase the time between visits. Spending a little extra now can save you money (and downtime) in the future.

Oh, make sure the speaker and cable you use are in good condition. Unlike a solid state amp, a tube amp won't tolerate an unloaded condition with high signal levels for long. The voltages on the primary of the output transformer can reach levels that will punch through the insulation and ruin it. Replacement iron for an amp like this is expensive.

[solderburn]

Little update...

I finally got everything i needed to complete this rig. The amp came back from shop and sounds superb, i was able to test it against a friend's stable of a five early 60s Showmans, so it was very interesting to hear all of these amps side by side. Each one is a little different, all sounded great. Mine had a lightly higher noise on the vibrato channel, so the tech ended up replacing a some resistors, now it's the quietest operating, yet loudest playing amp I own, i'm amazed.



I ended up getting a custom made reproduction tone-ring cab made by Peter Mather, i highly recommend him. I loaded the cab with a NOS JBL D130 F, this thing is proper. It was magic when i installed the speaker, the marriage of that speaker and that cab is surf tone perfection, it's a sound i've been chasing.



I gotta say, I love this rig, and i realized that getting such a gem has been a personal milestone in my life. It truly is a pleasure to play though, the sound really inspires me.



Here's a short clip of me playing at a low volume due to it easily overpowering my camera's mic. I utilize the harmonic tremolo when i play the barre chords, it's one of my favorite things about this amp. 




And here's a pic of how it looks now with the replacement Oxblood baffle to match the cab i went with. The band I'm in is going for matching gear, and i'm so glad i went with the Oxblood/blonde color combo, i think it looks really sharp.

[thetragichero]

for posterity's sake this is what i use: www.homedepot.com/p/Krud-Kutter-22-oz-Graffiti-Remover-GR226/205552884
spray on, let it sit for a bit. wrap a 'cinderella' type scrub brush in old tee shirt (to wick away the liquefied paint). may have to repeat a couple times if it's especially bad

[solderburn]

Thanks thetrajichero, i left a patch of paint underneath, i look forward to trying it.