Fender Electric XII w/ added PU combos

[solderburn]

Hi all! Happy new year!  

I recently snagged a Fender Electric XII reissue, so while I'm waiting for it to arrive I'm thinking about how the pedestrian wiring system can be improved.  The reissues only implement a 3 way toggle switch to give B, B+N, and N all in parallel.  I'm a nut, so this simply won't do. 

The originals had a fourth PU selection option, I've seen conflicting info online as to what that option actually was, some sources say it's series, and some say it's out of phase parallel.  So i figure why not try to mod it to have a rotary switch that will enable the normal 3 sounds, plus parallel out of phase, series, and series out of phase? That would be 6 combinations in all. 

I found a mod kit on Reverb, but it only has four options, but it's what got me thinking that maybe the 6 sound mod would be possible. reverb.com/item/38244264-mod-kit-for-fender-alternate-reality-xii

Here are some interesting threads from other forums about wiring these guitars... 

www.offsetguitars.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=111985&start=60#p1576845%5Burl


www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/fender-alternate-reality-electric-xii-switching-mod.2092973/

www.tdpri.com/threads/rewiring-a-1966-fender-electric-xii-when-the-levee-breaks.406725/

All of those examples only illustrate 4 PU combinations at most, and I'm looking for 6.  

If it's not too much trouble then could somebody here please create a wiring diagram to show how achieve B, N+B (parallel), N+B(series), N+B(parallel OOP), N+B(series OOP), and N.  I'd prefer the switching in that order, but it's not a requirement, whatever's practical really.  I haven't bought a switch yet, so I'd buy whatever type will be necessary, preferably a rotary switch, so i can use the cool Bakelite lever like the originals.  

I know it's asking a lot, and i understand if it's just not worth the time.  Figured I'd ask. 

I'm in no rush, I haven't even received the guitar yet. 

Thanks for your consideration!

[Deleted]

Phased the NECK as that way only need 3 poles
if i phase the bridge i can do it with 3 Poles but would mean to leave Neck hanging on the output
which might make some Twitchy EYED (could tie it up to output when not being used

[solderburn]

Jan 5, 2022 6:00:00 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

Phased the NECK as that way only need 3 poles
if i phase the bridge i can do it with 3 Poles but would mean to leave Neck hanging on the output
which might make some Twitchy EYED (could tie it up to output when not being used

Wow! Thanks angellahash! That was exceptionally fast, you make it seem easy.

Now I just need to learn how to read schematics. I assume squiggly lines are pick up coils...

[newey]

Jan 5, 2022 15:45:52 GMT -5 solderburn said:

I assume squiggly lines are pick up coils..

Yes, that's the symbol for an inductor, which is essentially what a pickup is. Angellahash's schematic uses 3 poles of a 6-position rotary switch (3P6T). However, he erroneously labelled it as "1P6T". The three poles he uses are designated "a", "b" and "c". You will probably find it more easy to secure a 4-pole 6 throw rotary, so you would have an unused pole, but 3 pole ones aren't that common.

[solderburn]

Thanks for your help, newey! I'm beginning to understand a bit now. I was starting to think that I should be looking for a 3 tiered 3P16T rotary switch.

[newey]

Jan 5, 2022 16:31:23 GMT -5 solderburn said:

3 tiered 3P16T rotary switch.

You may be able to find a 3 pole rotary switch with all 3 poles on a single deck. The 4-pole ones will more commonly have 2 decks, with 2 poles per deck.

[solderburn]

Ok, here's what my search for rotary switches turned up...

www.banzaimusic.com/rotary-4p6t.html

I'm considering buying this monster just to see if i can modify it to fit in the cavity.  I read about taking it apart and carefully filing down the plastic spacers so it could fit. 
www.amazon.com/uxcell-Position-Channel-Rotary-Selector/dp/B07JLR6HKC



newey, it's an understatement to say that a usable 3P6T switch is rare!

I understand there're easier ways to achieve that combo of sounds, but I'm going to try to keep it to a rotary switch.  Maybe I'll have to involve a pushpull pot if my search for a rotary switch fails. 



 

[Deleted]

if you use a 2P2T Push Pull switch as well you only need a 3P4T at MIN
I could reduce it down to 2P4T




There are smaller switches, seen a 3P5T a bit under half the width NSF i think the company that make them

Never done it but i guess could make a POT do this but will be a QUAD pot
maybe even able to design a location bump on it (but thats a theory )

[MattB]

Jan 5, 2022 23:49:35 GMT -5 solderburn said:

I'm considering buying this monster just to see if i can modify it to fit in the cavity.

 These switches come in three different sizes, and the one you have here is the medium. The KCX model is the smallest- I'm not sure how much height you save but the outside diameter is around 10mm less.

Aliexpress link

[newey]

As is very common with rotary switches, the shaft on the one you linked to is a flatted "D" shape so that the knob doesn't twist on the shaft as you rotate from one position to the next. That's all well and good, just be aware that it will limit your choices of knobs to fit it.

Also, the one you posted seems to have more decks (and more poles) than you would need. This type allows you to change the indexing on the switch, so it can go from a 6 position switch up to 12 (I think- hard to see on the picture). It also seems to be lacking any solder lugs? So, caveat emptor and all that .. .

But the price from AliExpress is dirt cheap. Mouser has sealed Grayhill mil-spec ones with 2 decks, 4 poles- but it's a $30 switch!

Of course, you have a vision, and far be it for me to dissuade you, but 5-position rotaries are more common, cheaper, and smaller. I suspect that you will find that the series OOP setting is more useful than the parallel OOP. As we often say around here, "SOOP is better than POOP". If you eliminated the POOP setting, you would simplify the wiring, use a cheaper switch, and one more likely to fit the cavity without problems.

[solderburn]

Gentlemen, thank you so much.

"SOOP is better than POOP" I love it. Hahaha

newey, as you might imagine, I'm going to stubbornly pursue my original plan, thanks for the mouser.com suggestion, I will look harder. I have no problem paying more for a switch that will do the job, and fit.

[newey]

Jan 6, 2022 13:43:06 GMT -5 solderburn said:

I will look harder. I have no problem paying more for a switch that will do the job, and fit.

Once you get up to 6 position rotaries, you will see many that can be set up (as I mentioned) by changing the indexing, such that you can get anywhere from 6 to 12 positions. You will see those listed, where the choice is "number of positions" as being "2-12" or some such. If you only search for ones with 6 (and only 6) throws, your options are more limited.

[solderburn]

Hi newey, I think maybe that Grayhill switch on mouser you had mentioned doesn't have enough positions, unless I'm missing it in the search, which very well could be the case.  

Here's what turned up after i searched the parameters of 2 to 12 positions, 4 poles, 2 deck...
www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/NKK-Switches/MRF403?qs=FyOeoOG5V0rW8G7Be0%252BwEg%3D%3D

If you happen to ever come across a switch that fits the bill, please let me know.  As of now it's looking like i can't find one with the requirements that I'm imposing,  I think I'll have to be more practical with my expectations.   haha

I did see a lot of very cool and expensive switches, though!  It's amazing how many variations exist. 

Edit:  I think i found one that might work for this 6 position monstrosity: 
www.stewmac.com/electronics/components-and-parts/switches/rotary-switches/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=shopping&utm_campaign=2022-01-gp
The third option down is a 4 pole, 6 position, 2 deck rotary.  Please let me know if you think it would be suitable for achieving what I'm setting out to do.  

Here's another one that i think might work, possible even better due to the solid shaft, since i'll be using a bakelite knob w/ a set screw...
guitarelectronics.com/6-way-rotary-pickup-selector-switch/

[newey]

Either switch should work.

[solderburn]

Thanks, newey!

[syddd]

Jan 5, 2022 23:49:35 GMT -5 solderburn said:

Ok, here's what my search for rotary switches turned up...

www.banzaimusic.com/rotary-4p6t.html

I'm considering buying this monster just to see if i can modify it to fit in the cavity.  I read about taking it apart and carefully filing down the plastic spacers so it could fit. 
www.amazon.com/uxcell-Position-Channel-Rotary-Selector/dp/B07JLR6HKC



newey, it's an understatement to say that a usable 3P6T switch is rare!

I understand there're easier ways to achieve that combo of sounds, but I'm going to try to keep it to a rotary switch.  Maybe I'll have to involve a pushpull pot if my search for a rotary switch fails. 



 

Get Grayhill 71 series rotary switches if you want something that will fit any guitar cavity and will work (the housing is 18mm diameter) You might have to try somewhere like Mouser to get it.

Some might consider it overkill and pricey for a guitar but hey, if it fits the purpose...