NanooMan
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by NanooMan on May 27, 2006 23:25:18 GMT -5
I'm about to have a new first: building my own guitar. I haven't ever built or wired, so it's gonna be interesting. I've got a teal Strat body on the way as well as a Floyd Rose bridge. I'm looking for a neck now, and I'm going to use the Strat-Lover's Start configuration. I'm going to have plenty of questions, so I hope no one minds me asking! Speaking of which, are push-pull, push-push pots for regular knobs, or does one need a knob similar to those on newer strats that basically have a button inset in the knob?
I also forgot to mention that I'm going to use a SD Hot Rails in the back, a SD Vintage Rails in the middle, and SD Cool Rails in the front. Does this sound like a good idea? My purpose is to get a dynamic of sound out of this guitar. I want the whole range. Shout I put something different in the middle? Another Cool Rails? I don't know how effective the Vintage Rails single coil replacement is going to be, but it will add flavor and match the other two.
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Post by Runewalker on May 28, 2006 1:54:27 GMT -5
Jordan, welcome to this board.
Many of us got started in exactly the way you describe.
The comment I would make about your configuration with all those SD "rails" in the sTrat LOver's scheme is that the real benefit to the SLS is the ability to expand a conventional 3 single coil strat into an instrument that keeps those tones, and add many humbucker type sounds. All that in an accessible, no overly complex design.
Your config, which is one advocated in the SD marketing materials, takes 3 humbuckers in single-coil form-factor and advocates them as "an incredibly versatile guitar..."
It may be that but it loses most of its strat character voices. The "vintage rail" is a humbucker strung in Parallel, whereas the others are usually wired conventionally in series.
So when you install the SLS wiring === one of the main options is System Series ---- in that you will be stacking 2 or more humbuckers in Series, which will probably move to the muddy end of the spectrum. Most folks who pursue these thin form-factor humbuckers op to split or parallel the coils, albeit they rarely sound like a strat single coil.
Just my opinion, so ignor it, but it is somewhat superflous to employ the SLS with a phlanx of humbuckers. I would recommend that scheme with single coils, and if you want a humbucker, then put one in the bridge, with the other two being real single coils. Of course RWRP is usually prefered in the mid to obtain humcanceling in combo with the bridge or neck.
An HSS is a very versitile design, giving you traditional Strat tones, and kick posterior power humbucker sounds, and many in between. Plus if you option the selection of which coil to employ on the bridge cut coil function you can combine with either the Mid or Neck in humcancelling mode.
Perhaps it would be helpful to give us an idea about the types of sounds you are enamored of or wish to produce in your custom guitar.
Others here may feel differently, but I am not convinced that the array of pups you mentioned are a good match for the SLS.
RW-Z
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Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on May 28, 2006 10:36:54 GMT -5
I think that may vary according to the brand. Most of the push/pull pots I've got around here are split-shaft, with splines. The knobs are splined on the inside, and slide on once you get the splines lined up. (There may be some stuff on the market with "coarse" and "fine" splines, too.) I think the ones I have are mostly CTS pots and clones. I've also got an Alpha 1 Meg push/pull, which has a solid, smooth shaft. Those are the ones that use a knob with a set screw in it. Q-Parts (the company that makes skull knobs, etc.) puts a sleeve in theirs, so they'll work with smooth- or knurled-shaft pots, and you can buy sleeves (bushings) separately. Oh, yeah--welcome aboard.
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Post by Runewalker on May 28, 2006 11:21:19 GMT -5
Speaking of which, are push-pull, push-push pots for regular knobs, or does one need a knob similar to those on newer strats that basically have a button inset in the knob? MSM spelled out the knob options on the 2 styles of P/Pulls I have seen. The other part of your question on the button insets styles you have seen, is most probabally the Fender S-1 Strat that has a 4PDT Push/Push. That is a much sought after switch as members have varing luck obtaining it from Fender. But to answer your question: A: It is not needed on the Strat Lover's config. B. It has that unique inset button that is specific to it. The only other Push/Pushes I have seen are at Antique Electronics, and I don't think it uses that proprietary inset button knob, but uses a conventional splined or set screw knob. I like the Alphas, as they are inexpensive at Mouser, and seemingly reliable. However I have only found them in linear taper. I think the guitar houses have them in audio, but a higher price than Mouser. RW
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NanooMan
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 34
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Post by NanooMan on May 28, 2006 14:11:43 GMT -5
Stupid question, but could somewhat explain split shaft? I see this constantly.
Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm so glad to hear what you guys have to say.
Regarding the pickups I chose, or will choose. Would it be ideal to put vintage rails in the middle and front? I have a strat, and I just can't get the rock tones I want out of the single coils. They just don't cut it. I play through a Fender Cyber Twin, so I have a nice amp that shouldn't be the cause of this. I just want to get that classic rock, Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, and Creed sound. I would like to punch people with sound. I want to play a Fender, not a LP or similar models, because of the WAY that Strats play (like butter). I just want a rock guitar, so I know I'll replace at least the bridge pickup with some sort of humbucker. Also, I'm sort of uneducated on the wiring of pickups (coiling), so I am ver appreciative of you info on what works and what doesn't.
When you say the two humbuckers will be in series, is this because of the sls wiring? Would it be any different if the selector switch simply selected both? How do double humbucker guitars work? I know I ask a whole lot of questions.
Oh yea, what's RWRP?
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Post by Runewalker on May 28, 2006 20:01:11 GMT -5
Stupid question, but could somewhat explain split shaft? I see this constantly. Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm so glad to hear what you guys have to say. Regarding the pickups I chose, or will choose. Would it be ideal to put vintage rails in the middle and front? I have a strat, and I just can't get the rock tones I want out of the single coils. They just don't cut it. I play through a Fender Cyber Twin, so I have a nice amp that shouldn't be the cause of this. I just want to get that classic rock, Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, and Creed sound. I would like to punch people with sound. I want to play a Fender, not a LP or similar models, because of the WAY that Strats play (like butter). I just want a rock guitar, so I know I'll replace at least the bridge pickup with some sort of humbucker. Also, I'm sort of uneducated on the wiring of pickups (coiling), so I am ver appreciative of you info on what works and what doesn't. When you say the two humbuckers will be in series, is this because of the sls wiring? Would it be any different if the selector switch simply selected both? How do double humbucker guitars work? I know I ask a whole lot of questions. Oh yea, what's RWRP? Ok I'll take a stab at this, but there are real knowledgible people on this board, and I don't include myself in that crowd. split shaft? This is a configuration on potentiomenter (tone and vol controls) that enables the mfg to place a knob on the turning shaft without additional hardware to secure it, like set screws. The shaft may or may not also be splined, so that the mirror image splines inside the knob fit tightly around the shaft of the pot. A split shaft has a notch cut out of the top of the shaft, and the inside of the knob has a "key" that fits in the notch. Go to sites like Guitar Electronics or Stew Mac and the pix will explain this alot better. what's RWRP?When you say the two humbuckers will be in series, is this because of the sls wiring? Would it be any different if the selector switch simply selected both? How do double humbucker guitars work? Stands for "Reverse Wound, Reverse Polarity." I won't try to explain the theory behind why humbuckers cancel the 60 cycle hum noise but this is the key ingrediant. For Chris K the main thing is that one coil in a 2 coil humbucker is in oposite polarity to the other. The Reverse wind refers to the other coil being wound in the opposite direction of the companion coil. In practice, many mfg use coils all wound in the same direction, but may revese the leads. When you see RWRP it usually refers to the mid pup of modern strats being in opposite polarity to the Neck and Bridge, so that when combined (in positions 2 and 4 of a 5-way blade switch) you get hum cancelling, effectively turning the combo into a humbucker, albeit the coils are separated instead of adjacent to each other like a Gibby humbucker. The reason 2 and 4 don't however, sound as beefy as a Les Paul humbucer, and infact sound thinner and a little honky is that Strats combine them in Parallel, where Gibson combines the 2 coils of a humbucker in Series. Since the coils are adjacent and imprint a larger magnetic turbulence window, and are in series they sound "ba||sier," thicker, beefier, etc. The parallel combination goes in the oposite direction, sounding thinner, and more trebly. Notably the conventional humbucker generally has less treble articulation than single coils, or teh 2 and 4 position, a more midrangy sound. The Strat Lover's big attraction is that it takes those 2 and 4 positions and wires them in Series as well as Parallel, so you have the conventional strat selections, but also a new set of tones, thicker, beefier, put away the women and children Series combinations. This will make your strat sound different than you have ever heard, more Gibson like bust still different. That is why it is supperfluous to use that scheme on a 3 humbucker guitar, which is what the blades are (except for that vintage, which combines its 2 coils in parallel, much like positions 2 and 4 on the strat, but it will be thinner sounding because the coils are so close together). Les Pauls combine their two humbuckers (4 coils in total) in Parallel also, but since the two humbuckers are in local Series, when combined in System Parallel they don't sound as thin as two strat singles in system Parallel. Wolf has a nice little primer on pups and humbuckers on his web pages and so does John H. Seach for posts by J Hewitt and Wolf and you will come accross their links. I don't have them right now. "I want.... that classic rock, Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, and Creed ...punch people with sound ....I just want a rock guitar...."Well I would say just get a Gibson but that would be cruel. If you do the SLS mod with your current single coils you will be miles closer to the sound you describe. That sound is mostly humbuckers in overdriven amps, albeit Jimmy Page did some pretty unusual things with his switching arrays. I could see putting a -Hum at the bridge with your two singles using the SLS. It would be especially flexible if you could at least do a cut coil on the bridge pup. You will obtain a vastly expanded tonal palatte keeping your old singles and doing this mod. I have wired it and would characterize it as an intermediate project. Not as complex as some of the schemes you see here, but complex enough, with small little connections and numerous solder joints, to be a challenge. It is a quite nice little design, using more conventional switches than some of the exotic designs discussed here. RW
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NanooMan
Apprentice Shielder
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Post by NanooMan on May 29, 2006 0:13:38 GMT -5
I truly hope that you know how much this helps my understanding. This clears up a lot. Thank you soooo much. I guess I should just use regular singles on middle and neck? Is there anything hotter or maybe even beefier than conventional singles for these?
I have a question of reference for.. everyone, really. Is the SD hot rails the best choice for bridge position? From what I understand, many folks have used them and loved them. My body does have the space for a larger pickup, and I'm ordering a pickguard anyway for the Floyd Rose neck. Should I go with something other than Hot rails?
Once again, THANK YOU! Hehe. I thought I had such a good plan putting all of those rails on together, which wouldn't be bad if I weren't planing on using bridge and neck together, I guess.
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Post by wolf on May 29, 2006 1:07:50 GMT -5
NonooManBefore you get aHot Rails pickup, you'd be surprised at just how much "punch" you'll get out of 2 single coils wired in series. I have a few Strat style guitars and I love the sound of middle and bridge in parallel. When I switch over to series, the output is much greater and it's a good sound to use with distortion. If your middle pickup is Reverse Wired Reverse Polarity (RWRP), then when you have Middle and Bridge in parallel or in series, it will be humbucking. If you want to try all the Strat Lover's Strat sounds (and more), without all the tricky wiring, try this idea from my website: www.1728.com/guitar2.htmI think it is a little easier than the Strat Lover's Strat wiring but it will change tha appearance of your guitar.
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NanooMan
Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 34
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Post by NanooMan on May 29, 2006 2:44:16 GMT -5
Along with anyone's opinion on good pups, would it sound good to have my pup configuration wired parrallel? Nothing would be run in series. What I'm thinking of doing is having three humbuckers (hot rails, vintage rails, and cool rails) with independant volume and tone, and then having cut coil selctions along with in and out of phase. OR, would I even need in and out of phase for middle and neck? The best phase combination is Bridge and Neck, correct? BTW, this is only the brainstorm I'm having in my head. Wolf, I love your site. I feel like I understand the world of elecronics, to an extent. "This guy's way in over his head" I know I am ;Dheh. I think I'm gonna have way to many switches. I'll have three stacked pots. Would I need series on any of my combinations? What sounds good in series? Standard guitars are in parrallel, so what's behind the idea of running any of these in series? Finally, are rails a good choice for split coiling? Should I get something fatter? Also, the vintage rails is different, so would I need to work with it differently or even use something else? I just had a look at the review on SD's Hot rodded HB set. Would these be a good choice for split coiling and all? Is this the type of thing I should look for? Anyone Please! hehe I think I want to it HSH. This way I can get strat setup when I plit the coils. It may not sound just like a strat, I know, but I have a strat here at home. This is going to be a rock guitar. I just want the potion of bridge/middle with the bridge humbucker cut into one coil. Same with Neck. This will just give me more options and tones.
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