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Post by RandomHero on May 30, 2006 13:41:31 GMT -5
A super-switch and a push-pull are expected, but no more. This a brainstorming session for the latest electronics rehash of my 7-string Schecter. Along with these wiring mods, I'm planning for it to recieve a set of EMG accessories, the VMC and BTS, and a Warmoth neck.
So show me what you've got!
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Post by CheshireCat on May 30, 2006 16:27:59 GMT -5
A super-switch and a push-pull are expected, but no more. This a brainstorming session for the latest electronics rehash of my 7-string Schecter. Along with these wiring mods, I'm planning for it to recieve a set of EMG accessories, the VMC and BTS, and a Warmoth neck. So show me what you've got! Opt for the BT C instead. There really is no advantage to having seperate knobs for bass and treble, and it's moot because the VMC stays concentric, even with the BQS. If space is a premium, you don't want to waste that extra control space. Incidentally, what about splitting and phase inverting? If no, it's a no brainer. (i.e. UUSS)
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Post by ChrisK on May 30, 2006 21:40:23 GMT -5
Well, Random, it would help if you stated the pickup types and wiring therein. If they're passive, schemes are afoot. If they're active, boring is. ;D What'cha doin' w/ the old neck?
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Post by CheshireCat on May 30, 2006 23:41:27 GMT -5
What'cha doin' w/ the old neck? DIBS!!!!
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Post by RandomHero on May 31, 2006 7:05:14 GMT -5
Well, they're passive. DiMarzio Blazes. And I don't know that the new Warmoth neck is gonna be an option, as it doesn't seem that their baritone 7 string necks are real conversion necks a la their strat necks. Their standard 7-string neck is made for a scale length of 25"... (What the heck? A -shorter- than standard scale for a low B? You've got to be kidding me...) but I don't know if it'll work at all. The wiring still stands, however! Phasing, series/parallel, superswitches, the works.
It's a good neck, Chesh, the action has to be kept a tad higher than I'd like and I didn't know 7-string was your thing, but if the Warmoth DOES fit... it's yours for the cost of shipping. Assuming I can acclimate myself to the 28 5/8th" scale of the baritone 7 from Warmoth... The tone, lovely, but the playing, YIKES!
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Post by jhng on May 31, 2006 8:09:32 GMT -5
An opportunity to propose wild and speculative wiring schemes! My favourite pasttime....
With the five-way and push/pull as the only switching controls you'll be limited to a maximum of 10 combinations.
Someone in another thread came up with a wiring for swapping between Gibson and Strat like combos. Which might be a good basis to start from.
Thus....
Mode A - Neck and Bridge as single coils, with the standard Strat wiring.
Mode B - Neck and Bridge as Humbuckers with the standard Gibson wiring.
The two spare positions in Mode B could be used for two out of the following selection:
1) N and B (outer coils in parallel); 2) N and B (outer coils in series); 3) as (2) but with the Middle pickup in parallel (sounds nice!); 4) N, M, and B all in parallel with N and B as single coils; 5) N and B (outer coils in series and out of phase); 6) N single coil and Middle (series and out of phase); 7) N (HB in parallel) parallel with Bridge (HB in series); 8) Neck HB in parallel 9) etc ... ...
I'll bet any of these setups is doable with a bit of patient thought.
Hastings
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Post by CheshireCat on May 31, 2006 13:55:36 GMT -5
Well, they're passive. DiMarzio Blazes. And I don't know that the new Warmoth neck is gonna be an option, as it doesn't seem that their baritone 7 string necks are real conversion necks a la their strat necks. Their standard 7-string neck is made for a scale length of 25"... (What the heck? A -shorter- than standard scale for a low B? You've got to be kidding me...) but I don't know if it'll work at all. The wiring still stands, however! Phasing, series/parallel, superswitches, the works. The UUSS would suit your purposes if you were okay with the addition of three discrete mini toggles. If you were down with that, you'd get splitting, phase inverting, series/parallel, and all the combos possible with three pickups (short the compound/hybrid combos which people are tinkering with today [and the jury's still out on]). It's a good neck, Chesh, the action has to be kept a tad higher than I'd like and I didn't know 7-string was your thing, but if the Warmoth DOES fit... it's yours for the cost of shipping. Assuming I can acclimate myself to the 28 5/8th" scale of the baritone 7 from Warmoth... The tone, lovely, but the playing, YIKES! Well, I'm all over that like white on rice. Keep me posted! Chesh
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Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 16:19:24 GMT -5
FOR H-S-H, with only one push-pull and one megaswitch M, i'd probably do this: push-pull settings → ______________ ↓ 5-way position
| PARALLEL ....█.........
| SERIES ....▄.........
| 1
| Neck SC
| Neck HB
| 2
| Neck SC and Middle Parallel
| Neck SC and Middle Series
| 3
| Neck HB and Bridge HB Parallel
| Neck HB and Bridge HB Series
| 4
| Middle and Bridge HB Parallel
| Middle and Bridge HB Series
|
[/td] [/tr] row 5: [tr] [td]5 [/td] [td]Bridge SC [/td] [td]Bridge HB [/td] [/tr] last command to close the table: [/table] all positions would be hum-cancelling (except the singles in 1 and 5, of course.)
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Post by RandomHero on May 31, 2006 17:31:45 GMT -5
JHNG:
My setup right is is along those lines of thought. However, it's currently achieved using a push-pull for the tone, and a push-pull for the volume, one of which cuts the HBs to single coils, and one of which is a Neck-on switch. My idea was the same as yours, and though it is interesting to do, I find that I only use a few schemes... and only having parallel wiring is boring!
However, the extra ones you suggested seem intriguing... I'm quite interested in that vein of thought.
Chesh:
As far as the UUSS goes, I wanna keep the switches and knobs on this one to a minimum. I never use the passive treble cut tone knob, so it's going to be replaced with and accompanied by a VMC and a BTC. (I'm already going to have to drill another hole for this that I don't want to!) I had a guitar with the Control Freak mod on it, (three minitoggles, one for each pup,) and though I got some interesting tones out of it, sound-switching wasn't as fast as I'd wanted.
Unk:
This intrigues me, but it's missing one vital position! Bridge and Neck single coils in parallel. That's one of the sounds I've come to adore from my current switching scheme. (The hum cancellation idea is good though!)
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Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 17:43:21 GMT -5
...Unk: This intrigues me, but it's missing one vital position! Bridge and Neck single coils in parallel. That's one of the sounds I've come to adore from my current switching scheme. (The hum cancellation idea is good though!) i can give you Neck SC + Bridge SC (and also Neck SC * Bridge SC) but you'd have to give up 1 (any 1, your choice) of the other 5 basic choices. i'm fairly certain i can still maintain hum-cancelling, in all combos w/ more than one coil. BTW, you can arrange whatever basic combos you want, in whatever sequence you prefer. unk
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Post by RandomHero on May 31, 2006 18:05:30 GMT -5
push-pull settings → ______________ ↓ 5-way position
| PARALLEL ....█.........
| SERIES ....▄.........
| 1
| Neck SC
| Neck HB
| 2
| Neck SC and Middle Parallel
| Neck SC and Middle Series
| 3
| Neck SC and Bridge SC Parallel
| Neck SC and Bridge SC Series
| 4
| Middle and Bridge SC Parallel
| Middle and Bridge SC Series
|
[/td] [/tr] row 5: [tr] [td]5 [/td] [td]Bridge SC [/td] [td]Bridge HB [/td] [/tr] last command to close the table: [/table] How about that?
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Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 18:14:50 GMT -5
you're breakin' my heart, throwin' out the "Gib-tone", but i can live with it.
the next step would be to determine your pickup color codes,
and which coils on the HBs have the same magnetic polarity as the middle.
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Post by RandomHero on May 31, 2006 18:17:48 GMT -5
www.dimarzio.comI'd link you more directly, but their whole page is a flash animation. It's the Dimarzio Blaze set.
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Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 18:26:29 GMT -5
rats,
i can't install flash player on my laptop. (a work computer, i don't have admin privileges.)
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Post by UnklMickey on May 31, 2006 19:36:18 GMT -5
i was able to get the Dimarzio color codes here: www.ampge.com/SKGS/sk/Pickup%20color%20codes.htmi can determine the magnetic polarities and the wiring for the HBs unfortunately, it's not clear which wire on the SC is the + (seems like the white, but not for certain.) unk
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Post by RandomHero on May 31, 2006 20:31:41 GMT -5
Hm... seems as though the winds may have changed. I confirmed with Warmoth that the replacement neck will not work with my current guitar's body. I don't want to drop the electronics mod money into this intrument if I can't get it physically playing like a dream. I'm considering putting the whole guitar up for sale, Chesh, electronics and all, if you're still interested. However, for the electronics in my new Totally Warmoth guitar, I think I might just go with H/H. Makes things a bit easier, eh?
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Post by CheshireCat on May 31, 2006 22:18:27 GMT -5
Hm... seems as though the winds may have changed. I confirmed with Warmoth that the replacement neck will not work with my current guitar's body. I don't want to drop the electronics mod money into this intrument if I can't get it physically playing like a dream. I'm considering putting the whole guitar up for sale, Chesh, electronics and all, if you're still interested. However, for the electronics in my new Totally Warmoth guitar, I think I might just go with H/H. Makes things a bit easier, eh? Why won't the neck work?
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 0:37:52 GMT -5
I'd thought that this statement was inferential of requested DIBS (or an initial offer to buy) at least! Which 7 string model Schecter is is? Yer scarin' me here. IF the 7 string neck has exactly the same neck endpoint (as referenced to the SAME LAST fret number on each neck, for the 25" scale you need to move the saddles 1/8" (for 24 fret) or more toward the neck. If you find the neck does fit into the neck pocket, be sure to measure 25" from the inside of the nut, This give the general saddle location. If a baritone neck of 28 5/8" is used, and its a 25 1/2" guitar conversion neck, it's ok (ASSUMING that the exact neck end point correlates to the exact end point on a Strat). Otherwise relocating the bridge may be needed. Are the pockets even related in size?
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Post by RandomHero on Jun 1, 2006 7:14:14 GMT -5
The pockets seem to be perfect matches for size. Here's my dilemma. Warmoth offers 7-string necks in two scale lengths. Those being 25" and 28" 5/8ths. The bodies they offer have SEPERATE pickup routing options for the 25" and the baritone necks to be fitted. This makes me believe that the baritone 7-string neck, while being the same scale length as their bona-fide conversion necks, is not actually a conversion neck. If it were, wouldn't there be the same amount of space for pups on a standard AND baritone body?
Even if it were a conversion neck, to fit the same body as their standard neck, it would have to be a conversion directly from a scale length of 25". This is a no-go as well, since my Schecter has a scale length of 25 1/2 to start with.
It's a Schecter V-7. Pickups and routing for them is not stock.
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 1, 2006 15:27:49 GMT -5
The pockets seem to be perfect matches for size. Here's my dilemma. Warmoth offers 7-string necks in two scale lengths. Those being 25" and 28" 5/8ths. The bodies they offer have SEPERATE pickup routing options for the 25" and the baritone necks to be fitted. This makes me believe that the baritone 7-string neck, while being the same scale length as their bona-fide conversion necks, is not actually a conversion neck. If it were, wouldn't there be the same amount of space for pups on a standard AND baritone body? Even if it were a conversion neck, to fit the same body as their standard neck, it would have to be a conversion directly from a scale length of 25". This is a no-go as well, since my Schecter has a scale length of 25 1/2 to start with. It's a Schecter V-7. Pickups and routing for them is not stock. The spacing on the baritone body would be slightly different because in either case you are dealing with a slightly longer scale-length, but, that said, I can't imagine it would make that much of a difference. If the neck pockets are an exact match, I think you should be good to go. "What'cha doin' w/ the old neck?" I'd thought that this statement was inferential of requested DIBS (or an initial offer to buy) at least! Well, you technically didn't call "DIBs", and "inferring it" doesn't count. That's the rulz of dibs. But, being that I'm a generous and sporting guy, I'll flip you for it. Heads I win, tails you lose. Chesh
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 15:31:59 GMT -5
What is at issue is the correlation between the fretboard length on your Schecter against what they supply.
As I look at their standard dimensions, I see the the fretboard length (from the bridge side of the nut to the end of the board for a 25 1/2" scale) is 18 7/16". This leaves 7 1/16" of the scale over the body (from end of neck to average saddle position). Measure the same for your Schecter. This will give you an indication of any possible bridge issues for a 25 1/2" scale.
Any bridge spacing issues will also apply to a conversion neck, which realizes said conversion by having "enough neck and extra frets" to leave the bridge location alone.
Both of their 7 string necks have a 2 5/8" pocket width. I guess that the Schecter does as well.
One can make minor neck spacing adjustments in (milling) and out(spacers).
Measure the spacing from the bridge side of the nut to the end of the neck (the inside of the pocket). Once known, so it the possible path.
Moving to a 25" scale generally infers a neck spacing adjustment of about 1/6" inward, but this fully depends on the Schecter fretboard length.
First things first.
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Post by RandomHero on Jun 1, 2006 15:56:42 GMT -5
I e-mailed warmoth to get their authority on it. Their baritone necks aren't conversion necks at all and must be used with one of their baritone bodies. I have very little room to move any neck toward the bridge on my Schecter, thanks to the neck pup ring, and am uncomfortable with moving it away and planting it on a smaller amount of wood.
I'm still considering selling the V-7. The asking price will likely start around $400. But that's not official.
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Post by CheshireCat on Jun 1, 2006 15:59:56 GMT -5
I'm still considering selling the V-7. The asking price will likely start around $400. But that's not official. Well, that puts me out of the running. ;D Chris? All yours!
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 20:04:04 GMT -5
Well, moving it closer involves cutting the pocket deeper, OR reducing the heel length.
Farther out involves screw hole plugging and a curved wood shim.
I have a Warmoth neck advertised as a Tele (yeah, right) neck that was originally a Warmoth peg head neck of 1 7/8" nut width. Zowie, I was on it and had it finished in satin and a cut nut installed. Only when I received it (after a while I checked fit) did I realize that it had had the heel shaved flat by someone (and it was pre-drilled).
It won't abut the standard Tele neck pocket without a ~~1/8" end shim.
This does give me the opportunity to test the coupling effect of a pocket end abutment by a neck.
Aside from the "proper Tele body" that the TeleBlender is based on, this is the last purchase that I've made from Warmoth, and since the posting quality of the "candy store" has waxed sloppy, I probably won't buy from them again.
Not being a Schecter'ite, could you tell me which model it is that you have. Or post a link.
Is a V7 the model? What colo(u)r is it?
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Post by RandomHero on Jun 1, 2006 20:21:38 GMT -5
It's out of production, and you won't find an example of the one I've got on Ebay, so here's a quick rundown of the specs.
It is indeed a Schecter model V-7.
Basswood body, very Strat-esque, with a contoured heel. Maple neck with scarf jointed angled peghead, the Avenger headstock design (Look this up at schecterguitars.com) with 2/5 to a side Grover rotomatic tuners, black. Rosewood fretboard, horizontal diamond inlays.
Equipped with stock Floyd Rose Liscenced trem, all parts in working order if a bit worn from much adjustment. All hardware is black. Currently set up with one vol, tone tone, both are push-pull, and a 5-way. DiMarzio Blaze H/S/H set. NOTE: The neck pup rout to accomodate the neck HB (it came stock with a neck SC) was done by me. It's amatuer stuff, but cosmetically fine WITH THE SUPPLIED EBONY PUP MOUNTING RINGS.
The tone of these pups is very mid-scooped, very expansive and almost hi-fi. Cleans are very articulate and pronounced, bordering on sterile, but I like it that way. Hi-gain settings are particularly crunchy and defined.
The color is deep emerald green metallic flake. It's got some belt-rash on the back, but no mars that go through the finish. It's got a DiMarzio straplok strap on it, which will come with it, as I've misplaced the original buttons.
Please keep in mind that I'm still on the edge as to whether I want to sell it or not.
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Post by ChrisK on Jun 1, 2006 20:32:19 GMT -5
Floyd Rose, nope.
I'm looking for a Schecter 7 to make into a wide pitch 6 string fer big fingers.
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Post by RandomHero on Jun 3, 2006 23:27:02 GMT -5
You might want to go with an Ibanez 7 instead. Their 7-string Wizard profile is much more like a wide 6. Or ESP, for that matter.
Upon further consideration, folks, I believe that the initial purpose of this challange still applies. It seems like it might be my best option to just make more changes and improvements to my Schecter than to get a new guitar entirely.
And so, post away! =D
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Post by JohnH on Jun 3, 2006 23:49:39 GMT -5
RH - OK, if the challenge is back on, then heres my thoughts!.
Any version that the other nuts come up with could be usefully compared to a minimal base option. This would use a standard Strat-type 5-way switch, not a super-switch, and a push-pull to cut both Hb's at once to singles. This almost trivial design gives you 9 sounds and the key single coil and humbucking options on each pup. Positions 2 and 4 give you MN and MB in parallel, and with the coil cut switch pulled, you could have humcancelling combos of M and one coil from B or N
Now if you go to a super switch, i would consider the same as above with the coil cut pp, but change the position 2 on the 5-way to BM in series, and position 4 to MN with all three coils in parallel (or two coils if the coil-cut is activated) . That would give you a super hot lead tone at 2, and a very rich parallel tone at 4, plus all the basics from each single pup.
John
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Post by RandomHero on Jun 4, 2006 0:15:33 GMT -5
Hm... the second suggestion sound pretty interesting, but a Super Switch could potentially do so much more. As it stands, I already have one of my pots set to push-pull the HBs to SCs, and take advantage of those tones quite often. Mainly, I'm interested in exotic combinations of series and parallel, and hijacking coils of the humbuckers to be used with other coils in the guitar.
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Post by JohnH on Jun 4, 2006 0:28:19 GMT -5
RH - I think one question is, given that there are only 10 possible settings, do you want all five of the basic single pup sounds, being N, M, B single coils and B, N Hbs? For me, I think I would want those first and my previous suggestion gives you those 5, plus 4 interesting and unusual other combos at 2 and 4, making use of the coil cut. If however, you did not need all the basic 5, then maybe more exotics could be incorporated. cheers
John
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