osfth
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Post by osfth on May 30, 2022 14:41:15 GMT -5
Im wiring a strat that is HH. Each humbucker is running to their own push/pull Volume pot, going series to coil split. Each humbucker will run the hot/ground from the volume directly to an on/off/on wiring series/off/reverse phase, that way i do not have to have a selector switch. each switch will connect to a DMT tone control pot (master tone).
I have a few questions on this setup. First question:
What pot am I going to send my grounds to? since its two volume without a selector switch, would I send all of my grounds to the tone pot, or can i choose one volume pot to send my grounds to?
if so, can I solder grounds to the bottom of a DMT tone pot, or do i send my ground wires to the small GRND hole on the circuit board?
Also, do i send the hot and ground from the output of the push pulls directly to the on/off/on switches, or do I send them from the output of the push pull to the volume, then send the output/ground of the volume to the mini switches.
I'm confused on groundings and switch order.I was going to wire the mini switch first series/off/split, and have the volume push pulls the in/out phase, but I'm not sure if I can use volumes as phase switches (or at least from forums ive read they said you cant.) Thank you in advance for any help!
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2022 15:46:05 GMT -5
So..
Pickup --> volume --> switch (pickup/off/phase)
And some where we have Humbucker/Single coil in the middle there
The push pull
Most send all their grounds to a Star Point on Any Pot as it's grounding the pot as all pots should as well as being a focus point for the ground
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Crazy design that never be done
Humbucker with a 1P2T on/off/on (in the middle of the humbucker link) switch
With one side of the switch going to -S and the other to +N
The push pull going to the +N and -S as a phase switch.
The volume dual pot with the second wafer being 5ohms or as low as you can go.. Limbo... Cut this one near the ground part of the volume
So normal volume but it goes out to Lug2 of the 2nd wafer output to one another end and ground to the cut end
Turning the 2nd wafer in to a off switch.
So now have North/Humbucker/South switch with a phase and a volume that turns off the pickup
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Post by newey on May 30, 2022 18:43:03 GMT -5
osfth-
Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!
Not sure it matters much. I'd put the volume pots first in line after the pickups, but it could be done in other ways. What I question is whether you'll like the 2 volume pots followed by a master tone control, whether it's a DMT bass/treble one or just a regular tone control. With both pickups turned on, turning down one volume will also affect the other pickup.
As for grounding, I doubt all the grounds would be able to be soldered to a small hole in a PCB. It doesn't matter where you collect the ground wires, so long as they all ultimately get connected to the jack sleeve connection. I use a star ground rather than soldering to the pots, the modern pots are all plastic on the inside and it's pretty easy to trash one trying to solder a bunch of wires to the shell.
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Post by unreg on May 30, 2022 22:48:41 GMT -5
osfth, if you choose to use a Star ground: Any conductive piece would do. You could approve of your Star-ground’s conductivity with a multimeter’s continuity test before soldering to it. I’ve tried to use a washer… do NOT choose a “Fender” washer. “Fender” washers are NOT the correct surface for a Star ground. My current Star ground is a long piece of paper clip ( newey’s idea); made a small loop on one end and screwed that into my cavity’s wall. It works excellently!  *Just be sure to solder the other end of the ground wire, attached to your jack’s sleeve, to the Star ground so that all wires attached to your Star ground will receive a solid grounding.
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osfth
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Post by osfth on May 31, 2022 9:33:20 GMT -5
osfth, if you choose to use a Star ground: Any conductive piece would do. You could approve of your Star-ground’s conductivity with a multimeter’s continuity test before soldering to it. I’ve tried to use a washer… do NOT choose a “Fender” washer. “Fender” washers are NOT the correct surface for a Star ground. My current Star ground is a long piece of paper clip ( newey’s idea); made a small loop on one end and screwed that into my cavity’s wall. It works excellently! *Just be sure to solder the other end of the ground wire, attached to your jack’s sleeve, to the Star ground so that all wires attached to your Star ground will receive a solid grounding. |
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osfth
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Post by osfth on May 31, 2022 9:48:12 GMT -5
osfth- Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!Not sure it matters much. I'd put the volume pots first in line after the pickups, but it could be done in other ways. What I question is whether you'll like the 2 volume pots followed by a master tone control, whether it's a DMT bass/treble one or just a regular tone control. With both pickups turned on, turning down one volume will also affect the other pickup. As for grounding, I doubt all the grounds would be able to be soldered to a small hole in a PCB. It doesn't matter where you collect the ground wires, so long as they all ultimately get connected to the jack sleeve connection. I use a star ground rather than soldering to the pots, the modern pots are all plastic on the inside and it's pretty easy to trash one trying to solder a bunch of wires to the shell. Thank you! How would I start with sending my pickups to the volume first, before the push pull and the mini switches? What wires would I send to do that first. I guess I’m questioning how to send the grounds through the switches after the volume. I wanted two volumes because I didn’t want two tones (unless I bought another DMT tone, or made the push pull with different caps to simulate dual tones), but I didn’t want to add two more mini switches, since I’ll also have the LED killswitch, I want to make sure there’s enough space. Is it possible to run the phase switch first with the North start and the south start, then send the hot to the push pull, and the hot wire of the phase switch be the north start, and the ground of the phase switch be the south start, and then wire the push pull coil split? Or can I run the The push pull coil split (without connecting a lead to the volume), then phase switch, then send the hot and ground to the volume? I’ll draw a diagram of what I was going to do here in a second when the kids take a nap, then see if there’s anything that needs adjusted. |
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osfth
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Post by osfth on May 31, 2022 10:18:46 GMT -5
 I think this is how? |
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Post by newey on May 31, 2022 11:38:06 GMT -5
osfth- We like folks who attempt to do diagrams themselves, rather than waiting for someone to "spoon-feed" it to them. So, you get some props for trying. But unfortunately, your diagram has a few issues. First, both coil-split push/pull switches aren't going to give you single coil when pulled. For both HBs, you have correctly joined the "series junction" wires together at the common lug on one side of the push/pull switch, but then the other lugs on that pole aren't connected to anything- but lugs on the opposite pole, which aren't connected to the pickups, are wired to ground and to "hot" respectively. You only need to use one pole of the switch to do the coil cuts. With the switch pulled up, the top-most lugs on the diagram will be connected to the common lugs, where you now have the series junctions wired. So, for the neck HB, the top lug needs to be grounded, and for the bridge HB, that same lug goes to hot on the V control. You phase switches are fine. Your DMT tone pot is incorrect. You don't show the wiring to the jack +, that will come from the middle (wiper) lug of the tone pot. Both "hot" lines from the pickups will be connected to the same place, the lower lug of the pot. As for the rest of that wiring, I am not familiar with the DMT pots and how they are wired. Are you working from a diagram DMT provided? Also, you don't show the killswitch wiring, so I can't comment on that. A good first effort, though.
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Post by Yogi B on Jun 2, 2022 18:11:29 GMT -5
modern pots are all plastic on the inside and it's pretty easy to trash one trying to solder a bunch of wires to the shell. Also, with push-pulls, if absolutely necessary to solder to their base I recommend doing so whilst the pulled up position in order to move the plastic internals a greater distance away from the point where you're applying heat.
osfth, further on grounding: when you're doing phase switching (or other things, such as series/parallel switching) it is important do distinguish between shield ground (e.g. cavity shielding, potentiometer casings, string/bridge ground or most pertinently your humbucker's bare shield wires) and signal ground (e.g. humbucker wires with coloured insulation or actual terminals of the potentiometers). Ultimately both shield ground and signal ground will be connected, but where is critically important: shield ground is a global fixed set of components that should absolutely always be connected to the ground (ring) terminal of the output jack (unless you like undue noise); however signal ground is localized & nominative — what is being treated as signal ground can vary between switch positions (e.g. with your phase switches, which swap the pickups' signal ground with their signal hot). What I'm getting at is: whilst it is electrically fine (though thermally questionable) to ground the humbuckers' bare wires the casing of the push-pull pots, you must not connect (as you currently have) the green humbucker wires nor the '1' lugs of the pots themselves. These should connect to each other (and the ground input of phase switch), but be kept separate from shield ground until the output side of the phase switch.
Your DMT tone pot is incorrect. You don't show the wiring to the jack +, that will come from the middle (wiper) lug of the tone pot. The only external connections the DMT uses are three pads on its PCB: output, input & ground (from the direction of the pot's shaft downward) — the pot's terminals are pre-soldered to the PCB. Looking further into the DMT, in particular after tracing what I can see in the photographs in this Strat-Talk thread, I don't think I'm particularly impressed. Is there anyone with hands-on experience of one, that can vouch for it? From previous passing glances I'd always assumed it was a dual-gang push-pull, but upon closer inspection that's obviously not the case. If I've got it correct, the circuit is like the following (note, I've swapped one of the cap values: Stephen James reported two 22nF caps, but I think it's more likely that one is a 2.2nF): I can see two issues. The first, lesser one, which I've tried to illustrate by both labelling the "GND" pad and attaching a ground symbol to the same net is that the PCB connects the "GND" pad with the pad pre-soldered to the pot's chassis — thereby conflating shield and signal grounds. In your case, when used as a master tone control this isn't a problem, but would be say if you did want one for each pickup. The second greater issue is the taper of the pot, or at least how it is used. Really the only acceptable taper for smooth roll off with a regular treble-cut tone pot (therefore by extension the lowpass mode of the DMT) is a logarithmic taper. For highpass you want either: to use lugs 1 & 2 of a log pot, such that turning the knob clockwise cuts bass; or (preferably) lugs 2 & 3 of a reverse log pot, such that turning the knob counter-clockwise cuts bass. (Another potential option would be a linear taper, in which case either pair of terminals would work as well as each other, just determining what effect the direction of rotation had.) Assuming the DMT uses a log taper, for correct operation in lowpass mode, it then appears that it uses none of the acceptable options for the highpass mode. This meaning that almost all of the bass cut range will occur in the first 10—20% of rotation leaving only very minimal difference over the remaining 80—90%.
As an aside, I'd normally advocate for making one of the phase switches swap which coil is selected by the coil split in order that when both pickups are split and one has its phase reversed the result can be hum-cancelling. As a north coil out of phase with a north coil (or a south coil out of phase with a south coil) is hum-cancelling. In this case we'd need to do it with both phase switches (since there are two), but the bigger hurdle is figuring out if this is possible without disrupting the operation of the volumes / on-off-on switches. |
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