Strat 5 way switch / hss lace sensor blend knob coil split

[abraxas0711]

I am newish to guitar wiring, but very new to strat wiring. I want to install a Blue / Silver / Red Dually set of lace sensors in my strat with a coil split. I also would like to include a blend knob. To complicate things, I think I got the wrong switch, but if it will work I would love to use it. At the very least, could someone point me in the right direction wiring this switch for a normal strat? Thanks. 

[Deleted]

Very Least

That is a 2P5T (2 pole 5 throw) [so think of a Pole as a Hallway and a Throw as Doors]
You see the Bigger tabs at ever ends, that is the Common [The Hallway]
You will also notice the 10 smaller tabs are split in to two groups of 5 and the disc in the middle has a tab that travels along them. The disc is also split to make the two poles.
Custom is to name the Common Tabs 0, so left side we can all A and the right B
The throws (Door ways) are normally called A1, A2 ... A5 and then to the other side B1, B2 ... B5

Wire two commons (A0 & B0) (big tabs ever side) to volume.
Moving left to right
First two smaller tabs (A1 & A2) to the Neck Hot side (+Neck, with -Neck to ground)
Miss a Tab (A3)
And next two smaller tabs (A4 & A5) to Bridge Hot side (+Bridge, with the -Bridge to ground)

For the B pole
Miss the first tab (B1)
And the next 3 tabs to the Middle Pickup, (this comes as out of phased, I may get told off as not always the case) Not Hot Middle to the 3 Tabs (B2, B3 & B4) (-Middle, with the +Middle to ground)
Missing the last tab (B5)

So pole A (A0) will let the signal Neck/Bridge in
1)Neck, 2)Neck, 3)NONE, 4)Bridge, 5)Bridge
And pole B (B0) will do the Middle signal
1)NONE, 2)Middle, 3)Middle, 4)Middle, 5)NONE


I am guessing next question will be the colours of the cables from the pickup, and sadly that seems to change from make to make.

-----
I may explain the switch a bit simple, I did this because we don't know the level of understanding.
I am guessing also 90% of people just want a solder drawing, and then get lost in the drawing.

[newey]

Abraxas0711-

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

angellahash has you pointed in the right direction as to the switch. You didn't ask questions about the coil split or the blender, so are you clear on those?

@angellahash-

Why are you having him wire the middle pickup out of phase? Is there something specific to Lace Sensors here that I don't know? I would think with all 3 pickups being from the same manufacturer, wiring the middle the same as the other two would be in-phase.

abraxas0711-

You didn't say whether you were planning on using a separate switch for the coil split on the dually. The switch you have is a "half Superswitch" as opposed to a regular strat switch, which is a 2P3T switch (with shorting positions at 2 and 4). Many HSS Strats are wired for the so-called "autosplit" at position 2 (the B + M position); this gives you the full humbucker at position 1, with the coil split together with the middle pickup at position 2. I'm not sure the "autosplit", rather than using a separate switch to split the Dually, will work with this switch. Using the separate switch also gives you the single coil option at position 1.

(also note that angellahash's numbering of the lugs is opposite of how I have numbered the switch positions. The numbering is purely arbitrary (and varies), but Fender's convention (usually) is to number the bridge pickup as position 1, neck as position 5. So that's what I used.

[abraxas0711]

-newey-

I have found some wiring diagrams that should get me going as far as the coil split / blend knob thanks. I should be able to piece it together I think. Thank you.

-angellahash-

Thank you. Do the lugs correspond to the below diagram?

[Deleted]

The one a above is a 2P5T or each one has a point.

This new switch, if you look at the disc that travels along (in the middle) again the A0 will be bigger, but this time the notch from that will be about 3 points long (not sure what to call it) where on the top one it was just one.


So this one is a big different
So you know A0 & B0 are the two commons and mirror images of each other
1) A0 --> A1. &&. B0 --> B1
2) A0 --> A1 & A2
3) A0 --> A2
4) A0 --> A2 & A3
5) A0 --> A3
The great thing about these switches you can see where it links up
So with the one above you would need two poles this one you only use half of it.

-----
Now my crazy side wants to change that disc in the middle , but another story

[newey]

Jun 3, 2022 4:24:58 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

The one a above is a 2P5T or each one has a point

Technically, no. And since abraxas0711 is "newish", let's not confuse him.

The first switch abraxas posted is a 2P5T "Half-Superswitch". It has 5 throws because all 5 switch positions can be independently wired. A "throw" does not equate to a position of the switch; a "throw" means that a discrete set of electrical connections can be made.

The second switch is a regular Strat switch, as used in the vast majority of Strat-style guitars. The one pictured is a "US style" switch; there are import-style versions that use a PCB, but these are electrically identical to the US ones, only the orientation of the solder lugs differs. The switches are(to be technical) 2P3T switches. Even though the switches have 5 positions, there are only 3 "throws" because positions 2 and 4 are not independently wire-able; position 2 is just the parallel union of positions 1 and 3, and #4 unites 3 and 5.

In most cases, "the half Superswitch" is more flexible, allowing for more wiring possibilities. But, if you want to wire a HSS guitar to "auto-split" the Dually at position 2, the regular Strat switch can easily do that while the half Superswitch cannot. If you are going to use a separate switch, as I said above, for the coil splitting, then angellahash's instructions can get you what you want with the halfsie.

[Deleted]

Jun 3, 2022 8:52:10 GMT -5 newey said:

Jun 3, 2022 4:24:58 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

The one a above is a 2P5T or each one has a point

Technically, no. And since abraxas0711 is "newish", let's not confuse him.

The first switch abraxas posted is a 2P5T "Half-Superswitch". It has 5 throws because all 5 switch positions can be independently wired. A "throw" does not equate to a position of the switch; a "throw" means that a discrete set of electrical connections can be made.

The second switch is a regular Strat switch, as used in the vast majority of Strat-style guitars. The one pictured is a "US style" switch; there are import-style versions that use a PCB, but these are electrically identical to the US ones, only the orientation of the solder lugs differs. The switches are(to be technical) 2P3T switches. Even though the switches have 5 positions, there are only 3 "throws" because positions 2 and 4 are not independently wire-able; position 2 is just the parallel union of positions 1 and 3, and #4 unites 3 and 4.

In most cases, "the half Superswitch" is more flexible, allowing for more wiring possibilities. But, if you want to wire a HSS guitar to "auto-split" the Dually at position 2, the regular Strat switch can easily do that while the half Superswitch cannot. If you are going to use a separate switch, as I said above, for the coil splitting, then angellahash's instructions can get you what you want with the halfsie.

THIS IS A 2P5T .. sadly GUITARIST are not 100% in to ELECTRONICS.
To call this a "Half Super Switch" is a BIT INSULTING

a BUS is a BUS, but a Double Deck is TWICE as a HIGH as ANOTHER LAYER is ADDED on (Should we call Children HALF Adults now!!)
so a 2P5T Switch and then you add another WAFER to make it a 4P5T or "Super Switch"


and when we go in to this OTHER SWITCH it gets confusing what to call it, has 2 Poles and has 5 Throws but doesnt tell us the OUTPUTS

you can see the NOTCH in each of this

[Deleted]

Jun 1, 2022 16:42:49 GMT -5 abraxas0711 said:

I am newish to guitar wiring, but very new to strat wiring. I want to install a Blue / Silver / Red Dually set of lace sensors in my strat with a coil split. I also would like to include a blend knob. To complicate things, I think I got the wrong switch, but if it will work I would love to use it. At the very least, could someone point me in the right direction wiring this switch for a normal strat? Thanks. 

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Right, Dont really care about the Pickups as any Pickup can be used.. Generic
so give 1...5 Locations and what OUTPUT you want from them in each Positions
Custom for Strat
1) Neck, 2)Neck & Middle, 3) Middle, 4) Middle & Bridge, 5) Bridge
but you want a blend so, where what and when
a Strat Comes Normally with 3 Pots and 1 Lever , so Possible of 3 Push/Pulls if you want

If we Teach you Why and what its doing, if there is any FAULTS you can see them and change your own Circuit when you come to upgrade yourself
if you just want the Circuit just say what you want

[sumgai]

Jun 3, 2022 9:15:56 GMT -5 @angellahash said:

THIS IS A 2P5T .. sadly GUITARIST are not 100% in to ELECTRONICS.
To call this a "Half Super Switch" is a BIT INSULTING

a BUS is a BUS, but a Double Deck is TWICE as a HIGH as ANOTHER LAYER is ADDED on (Should we call Children HALF Adults now!!)
so a 2P5T Switch and then you add another WAFER to make it a 4P5T or "Super Switch"


and when we go in to this OTHER SWITCH it gets confusing what to call it, has 2 Poles and has 5 Throws but doesnt tell us the OUTPUTS

you can see the NOTCH in each of this

It is by convention that a super-switch (sometimes that name is capitalized) is a 4P5T, with discrete terminals (one per position).  It is not by intention that a 2P5T is called a "half super-switch", because it has only half the number of poles, though with the same one terminal per position, per pole.  The important distinction here is not that it has one or two decks, it is that it has two discrete poles, period.  Mechanically, such a device can be made with any number of decks, and it would still operate in the same electrical manner.  I've seen plenty of these buggers with all four poles on one deck, built exactly as the original 2P3T, but with an updated accommodation for the four poles and discrete terminals.

Indeed, the two terms were coined in the guitar realm, regardless of any of those denizens being electrically inclined, let alone trained in the arcane arts of getting shocked at will.  That doesn't denigrate the meaning of the term "half super-switch", not by any means.  It is purely descriptive of a set of capabilities in comparison to another device, and that's the whole enchilada right there.

But just to be my usual perverse self .....

Years ago here in The NutzHouse we discussed a newly released 8P5T switch, I believe it was made by Oak-Grigsby. but I could be mis-remembering on that score.  In fact, back before @unklmicky disappeared, he and I cooked up an all-possible-combos scheme for SSS guitars.  Search for "Side-Slap Strat" for starters.  Sadly, that was before the majority of us ever got into things like "half out-of-phase" (now there's a bastard term that's a complete misnomer), so all of those newer ideas essentially and effectively render those old circuits pretty much null-and-void.  But it was fun while it lasted!

HTH



sumgai