Strat with 2 P90s: Neck/Bridge/Series/Parallel - Possible?

[frednugent]

Wiring novice in need of serious assistance as I'm better at playing than engineering!

In short, I can more or less follow clear instructions and solder things together, but anything more and things get dicey.

What I'm trying to achieve:

Install 2 Fralin P90's into a strat body with a standard five way selector switch to get the following flavors:

Switch:

Pos 1: Neck pickup only
Pos 2: Bridge pickup only
Pos 3: Neck and Bridge in Series
Pos 4: Neck and bridge in Parallel

Pos 5: Open to suggestions

I’ve attached the closest diagram I could find but it obviously doesn’t have serial vs parallel capability. Also it only shows 2 Tone pots. I'm not committed to 3 tone pots - but I've got the room for it and a 3 pot pickguard ready to go as per pic. I can reorder a 2 pot pickguard, not a problem but I'm into weird sounds so maybe someone can come up with something creative for the 3rd pot?

Finally, I came across a site saying some Fralin pickups might need to be wired a certain way (not sure if mine qualify – but they are Fralin)

Here is the link: www.deaf-eddie.net/custom-pups.html

Thanks much for any ideas and suggestions ; )

Fred Nugent

[Deleted]

Pos 1: Neck pickup only
Pos 2: Bridge pickup only
Pos 3: Neck and Bridge in Series
Pos 4: Neck and bridge in Parallel
Pos 5: Open to suggestions
[/div]

I’ve attached the closest diagram I could find but it obviously doesn’t have serial vs parallel capability. Also it only shows 2 Tone pots. I'm not committed to 3 tone pots - but I've got the room for it and a 3 pot pickguard ready to go as per pic. I can reorder a 2 pot pickguard, not a problem but I'm into weird sounds so maybe someone can come up with something creative for the 3rd pot?

Finally, I came across a site saying some Fralin pickups might need to be wired a certain way (not sure if mine qualify – but they are Fralin)

Here is the link:

www.deaf-eddie.net/custom-pups.htmlhttp://www.deaf-eddie.net/custom-pups.html
Link doesnt work for me

I think with it being TWO Pick, maybe best to look at Telecaster Circuits
as for your Switch, 2P5T lever would suit if you want BASIC depending on what you want for Position 5
+Neck to OUTPUT and -Bridge to GROUND

A0 - Neck	B0 +Bridge
A1 Ground	B1 Ground
A2 Output	B2 Output
A3 +Bridge	B3 - Neck
A4 Ground	B4 Output

A5 ?

[ashcatlt]

You of course can’t do S/P with a standard Strat 5-way, and the only other interesting thing to do with the fifth position is probably series out out of phase, which is not something most people would use all that often, sooo…

…my suggestion would be sumgai’s version of the Baja tele 4-way wiring
guitarnuts2.proboards.com/thread/5073/switch-gives-series-parallel-combos

With three pots you’d have master volume and then tone for each pickup. The tone pots would want to be wired directly across their pickups which is different from in the link, but allows you to get “broadbucker” tones in the series combination.

[Yogi B]

Jun 17, 2022 4:08:47 GMT -5 frednugent said:

Finally, I came across a site saying some Fralin pickups might need to be wired a certain way (not sure if mine qualify – but they are Fralin)
Here is the link: www.deaf-eddie.net/custom-pups.html

That's discussing possible problems with pickups that only have two conductor wiring: a signal hot wire and a combined signal ground / shield ground wire. Your pickups appear two have three conductor wiring: the black & white signal wires, and separate bare shield wire — thus ought to be fine.

Jun 17, 2022 21:24:11 GMT -5 ashcatlt said:

You of course can’t do S/P with a standard Strat 5-way

That's not quite true. Technically you can, but you're limited to a specific selection order and the bonus fifth tone would either be a duplicate or a dead spot, for example: B, B+N, N, N, B×N; or B, B+N, B, none, B×N.

If a specific order is required a 'separate throw per position' switch, such as the 2P4T used by the 4-way tele wiring or a 4P5T of a superswitch/megaswitch, is the way to go. (A super/megaswitch obviously being more flexible, enabling selections such as the aforementioned series out-of-phase.)

Jun 17, 2022 4:08:47 GMT -5 frednugent said:

Pos 5: Open to suggestions

An out-of-phase option would also be my first thought, but I'll also mention parallel out-of-phase as a potential option. I'd usually go with series OoP with single coils and parallel OoP with humbuckers — with P-90s being somewhere in between, I'd say neither was automatically a more favourable choice, it just depends how thin an out-of-phase tone you'd like.

With a spare control available, having a duplicate pickup selection but with an alternate control is an option. For example: your four specified positions are controlled via the master tone control, but the fifth is the lone bridge pickup but with its own, independent, tone control. On a related theme, the fifth option could use the extra control as some kind of blend control — not giving you an entirely new selection, per se, but the ability to set an exact mix of the pickup(s).

A final option for the third control is a master bass-cut, to complement the regular master treble-cut, à la G&L's PTB system.

There is also no reason why you couldn't employ a (possibly rotary) switch in the remaining hole, instead of a potentiometer, thereby opening up yet more options.

[Deleted]

If you want a cheap alpha switch
Can do it but will need to cut the tracks or get a double..

+Neck to output and -Bridge to ground
1)Ground
2)Not Connected
3)+Bridge
4)-Neck
5)Output
6)Not Connected
7)-Bridge
8)Not Connected

Should give you
1)Neck
2)Neck + Bridge
3)Bridge
4)Bridge
5)Neck x Bridge

------------------

Ooops didn't know I posted that in error

[newey]

frednugent:

Hello and Welcome to G-Nutz2!

(Sorry for the somewhat belated welcome . . .)

For the 5th position, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned the "half out of phase" option. But in any event(as noted by others), the standard 5-way selector isn't going to get you what you want, in the order you want, without redundancy. Bite the bullet and buy the switch needed to do the job right.

If you really and truly want to reuse your existing standard 5-way, you might consider using the third hole for a separate series/parallel switch (which could be a push/pull pot for the added tone control, as discussed). This would be wired so as to override the 5-way switch selection, giving you the series option with just the flick (or pull) of the switch, regardless of where the 5-way is positioned. The other positions of the 5-way might then be used for other things, perhaps for a cap bleed option.

[stevewf]

I'm with newey - there exist some useful half out-of phase sounds.

On my likewise Strat (twin P-90's), I didn't like the Out of Phase sound without the capacitor, which prompted my to try Half Out of Phase. I encountered choices like:

Series or Parallel? In this case, assuming that the 5-way switch is of the standard (2-pole) type rather than super-switch (4-pole), then the serial mode is within easier reach without adding a pole (at least I think that's true - Nutz, correct me!)

Which pickup to short? I'm talking about shorting it through a capacitor (i.e. putting a capacitor in parallel with it). Which pickup gets the treatment makes a difference to the sound. And this choice also determines which pickup gets schemed as "first".  I hope my meaning of "first" becomes evident; it has to do with the two pickups' position relative to ground and hot. Nearer to ground is "first".

Capacitor value? This one and all of these choices depend on the guitar overall, especially the pickups, but mostly they depend on personal taste.

In case it helps with a starting point, here's what my Strat with P-90's got for Series Half Out of Phase (SHOoP): 68nF across the bridge.

For a point of reference, my Strat's P-90's are Wilkinson "M" model (bridge and neck pair). DC resistance of the neck pickup is 8.15K and the bridge 10K. (Apologies to pickup buffs, but that's the only electrical measurement I can take at present). I tried a range of capacitors, with the bridge "first" and then with the neck "first". I settled on a 68nF capacitor in parallel with the bridge (which was "first", necessarily).

More? What I haven't tried is putting resistors in series and/or parallel with the capacitor. So many variables, so little time!

[frednugent]

Thanks everyone for great suggestions. It will take me a few days to get my head around it all well enough to ask for clarification and/or tips on how to proceed. Great stuff!!

[frednugent]

All right

After bumping my head up against the wall for the last 2 days my understanding of pickup wiring and switching has gone from totally inadequate to only slightly inadequate...an improvement!

I think a standard 5 position switch with an added blower is my best option. Sometimes it's best to bypass everything and get a max volume sound. So...

Switch:

*Neck

*Neck + Bridge (serial)

*Neck + Bridge (Parallel)

*Bridge

*Blower

I don't think the order of the above matters so much as long as it works. If it becomes a problem down the road I'll just have to swap out the switch. But an order that's logical would be great if possible.

For Tone knobs I'm thinking:

Master Volume

Master Tone

Blend option (blend for blending the two pickup tone controls as per Yogi B's suggestion)

Now the challenge (for me anyway):

How the eff to wire this up?

Any help would be appreciated. I think the diagrams above are just visual layouts of 5 position switches but I'm unsure of what the + and - and x refers to. Sorry - wiring isn't my thing But as stated, if someone can state things simply I can figure it out from there.

Sincere thanks to those supporting my efforts with their experience and advice.

Best,

The Nuge

(not really the Nuge)

[newey]

Jun 21, 2022 23:41:49 GMT -5 frednugent said:

but I'm unsure of what the + and - and x refers to.

Around here, we generally use a "+" sign to mean a parallel connection, and a "x" to mean a series connection. But that's just us, and some folks criticize that symbology as not being accurate mathmatically.

What you're still not getting is this,as per ashcatlt and YogiB:

Jun 17, 2022 at 10:24pm ashcatlt said:

You of course can’t do S/P with a standard Strat 5-way

That's not quite true. Technically you can, but you're limited to a specific selection order and the bonus fifth tone would either be a duplicate or a dead spot, for example: B, B+N, N, N, B×N; or B, B+N, B, none, B×N.

To wire a regular 5-way switch to get series/parallel settings means using both poles of a regular Strat switch. This doesn't leave any way to add the blower onto the 5-way wiring, you'd need to add a separate blower switch on the bridge pickup, and you'd be stuck with the redundancy and/or dead spot on the 5-way, as YogiB mentioned. You can get what you want, but it would require a more capable switch, even if the order of selections doesn't matter.