Can I cut a neck shorter?

The words "bad idea" spring to mind almost immediately.

You point out, yourself, that hitting the truss rod is a likely possibility.

Another point is whether you'll have enough heel to securely place the neck in the pocket.

The best thing to do is look for a neck in the proper scale (25.5", 25.0" or 24.75"...or whatever) and work from there. Even necks of the proper scale length will give you hours of fun tweaking and setting them up.

While this is your neck to do with as you please, I would sell this one and buy the neck to fit the scale you need...sans bandsaw.

HTC1

OK... FINE, THEN!... lol. Thanks for the advice. Kinda thought this might be on the inadvisable side of things.

So, now... Are there any words of encouragement available for a guy who's guitar plays a little flat? Like, maybe it's kinda cool...

I know you're joking around as I am... but you make me wonder... is this only a problem when playing with others? Cuz I'm not (yet.)

When I practice alone, my guitar sounds good to me. I'm just worried that learning stuff with the intonation off will train my ear to be musically dumb or something.

Like, if you heard a lone guitar playing... would you notice if the intonation was a bit flat? (Each string is off to the same degree, if that means anything. The staggering of the saddles looks normal.)

I don't know if this is part of what you're asking, BAY, but I have a few seconds in which to type a few random thoughts, in no particular order:

Standard "Concert?" pitch is 440hz

You don't have to tune to concert pitch

Your instrument should be in tune (with itself), at whatever pitch you choose or end up at

If you play with others, the instruments should not only be in tune, but should be in tune with each other

That said, there are many alternate tunings (wiki it)

A guitar with poor intonation can be tuned either to itself or to 440hz, but will sound out of tune when strings are fretted

I doubt you will enjoy a guitar with poor intonation for long

Once you start playing with others, I know they will enjoy neither an out of tune guitar nor a poorly intonated guitar for long

I hope that helps

D2o

you can give it a shot .... at the worst you will ruin the neck.

but why not just buy a new neck ?
... one that is the proper scale length for your guitar body

ahhhh ... the old empty wallet syndrome .
i know the feeling well brother ... i know it well.

what scale length is your Strat ?
the std 25.5 " ?

and what neck do you have on it ?

Have you got the tools to enlarge the neck pocket? Is there enough room to do so without moving the neck pickup? It think that if you've got a router, even with moving the neck pickup, it would still be easier and less risky than sawing the neck or moving the bridge.

I hadn't thought of that. I only have a handheld router and not much experience with it.

are both guitars 25.5" scale ?

measure the length from the nut to the bridge saddle to find out.

i would guess that both guitars are 25.5 " , so you shouldnt have to cut the neck or rout the pocket.

a simple adjustment might be all you need to do

Okay, if I understand the problem correctly, you pulled a 21 fret neck off one guitar and put a 22 fret neck from another body in its place. Yes, Virginia, I see your problem...

As these are Strat type guitars it's probably safe to say they're both 25.5" scale. You can check this real fast. From the nut to the last fret the 21 fret neck should measure 17.919" (455.143 mm) and the 22 fret neck should measure 18.344" (465.938 mm) If not, tell us what it is, and we'll tell you what you've got...

Now, since we've already covered the "cut neck bad" scenario, lets look at your options. Move the bridge or route the neck pocket. It looks like both of these guitars have some manner of whammying device installed. From painful experience, these are not easy to move. A lot of work, as in milling, filling, routing, swearing and an inevitable refinish is involved. Probably not your best option. Routing the neck pocket looks like your best option here.

Either way, you're probably looking at a new pickguard, so save your coins for that one. Double check the position of the new neck routing to make sure is doesn't walk into your existing neck pickup position. This may need to be moved to accommodate the new neck mounting position. About now you're probably beginning to see the advantages of buying a neck that just drops into your guitar...

Now onto the real meat an potatoes...routing the neck pocket. This may get long, and I may wind up repeating myself from previous posts...but stay with me on this...

First the standard disclaimer:

DISCLAIMER: Performing the tasks detailed below require tools and equipment. If you have them and a certain degree of experience and skill then you're probably okay. If not, then take it to a good repair shop and have them do the work. Performing anything detailed below incorrectly or in haste can render your guitar into a very pretty piece of firewood.


To route the neck pocket you need a router:



...a top bearing router bit, for this application probably a 1/2" diameter by 1/2"-3/4" long:


(double check your router adjustment to make sure you can adjust for the guide boards and the depth of the existing neck pocket)

...two long planed hardwood boards and one cut to size...you really don't need pictures of these...I figured you knew what wood looked like...

...clamps:


(I really like bar clamps. You can get the ones with the ratchet grips, too...)

...blue tape:


(That's right, blue tape...don't use the cheap stuff...)

...and a workbench:


(Or any firm, secure surface. ALWAYS CLAMP YOUR WORK SECURELY BEFORE ROUTING ANYTHING)

Any good size router will do. Avoid laminate style routers, as the base is generally too small to lay securely across your boards and have insufficient depth adjustment.

Stew-Mac, or just about any good woodworking store has top bearing router bits. Avoid too large a diameter or depth on this one. These ain't particularly cheap, but what is...

The boards are easily found at any home improvement store. I prefer oak boards 3/4" X 3". These generally cost around $4.00-$6.00 for the pair, pre-packaged. Check them for flatness as depending on how long they've been there they can curl or warp. There's even enough to cut your cross stop piece.

Before you begin you'll want to tape the body of the guitar anywhere the boards, bench or router will be contacting a finished surface. You may also want to put something on the bench to protect the finish. Cheap is fine, as I use two thin foamed backed vinyl place-mats stuck together with double-sided tape, foam side out...

Lay your hardwood boards even with your neck pocket sides down the length of the guitar body and clamp the body and boards to your workbench. You can use a cross board over the two oak boards to secure them if the throat of your clamps won't allow you to get in close. Since you're not widening the neck pocket you'll want to make sure your boards are flush with the existing neck pocket.

For the cross stop piece you'll need to measure twice...maybe three times...and cut once. This is the piece that determines how much closer to the bridge your neck pocket goes. This needs to be dead nuts on.

Remember, the neck may be tapered slightly at the heel, so you'll need to check this and make corrections accordingly. You can use small pieces of veneer as shims to make a tight fit if necessary. This cross stop need to fit as tightly as possible into the space between the two long boards as possible without pushing the two long boards out...if not, you'll wind up with not only a longer neck pocket, but a wider one as well...

What I do is drill and screw the cross stop into the two long boards, but you can also clamp across the two long boards to secure it. I've also seen guys use duct tape...but personally...

This is the tricky part. DRINK NO BEER OR USE MIND ALTERING SUBSTANCES AT THIS POINT! Before you tighten everything up and have at it, you will need to place the neck in positioned level and square to the oak boards and that your stop is in position to allow a 25.5" (or whatever it actually is...) scale from the nut to the saddle of the high E string, adjusted about 2/3 of the way towards the nut. Read that again.

A good metal rule is strongly suggested here. Double and triple check this BEFORE you clamp everything down to the bench.

Go slow and remember to ALWAYS make your first pass counter-clockwise to avoid ripping gouges in the wood. You'll want to make slow even passes taking as little material away as possible. Don't remove more then 1/32" to 1/16" of material per pass and GO SLOW! If your router bit is too short to cover the entire neck pocket depth then just make two passes starting at the top.

If you bought a high quality router bit, and you taped around the area you routed, your finish will probably be fine. Going too fast, or bearing down and forcing the tool is what generally scalds, burns or chips the finish.

One quick note about the blue tape. Using cheap masking tape is problematic for two reason. One, it's generally thinner then the blue or green tape, and two, it's more tacky. This makes it harder to remove, especially after it's been clamped down, and it leaves adhesive on the guitar you'll need to clean up later. Spend the extra few bucks...you'll thank me later.

Wasn't that fun?

NOTE: Now that you have moved the neck you will need to re-drill the neck mounting screws...that's another lesson, but find someone with a drill press...hand drilling mounting holes in a neck is a REALLY BAD IDEA...

Well, time to play with the horses.

Happy Trails

Cynical One

(1.5 CEU's awarded upon completion of this class.)

And +1 for it's creation

I know routing the neck pocket seems scary, but read black walnut tele before you perform surgery on your neck. From experience I can tell you that most "neck jobs" don't have a happy ending. Fixing a mistake on a body is much easier then fixing a mistake on a neck.

HTC1

I'm gonna jump in here and relay some advice I learned a long time ago from a trusted luthier..... never modify a body when you can shave a few RCH's off the neck. That wasn't so much as for the finish or the hard work, but for the fact that the body may see a succession of necks throughout its lifetime, but necks are only very occasionally swapped to other bodies.

Now, it comes to mind, after re-reading all the preceeding, that the necks in question are of different overall lengths, and not just the fingerboard, but the whole thing. That would explain the differing neck pocket dimensions, both in self and in relation to the bridge.

Although the question does arise, how is it that the the undesired neck fits on the undesired body just fine?

Anyways, marching on.....

So, knowing that nearly all truss rods come from one Master Template (no need to re-invent the wheel for a quarter-inch or so), I'd hazard a guess that the longer-heeled neck is still using the same trussrod. Particularly since it adjusted at the head end, I'd really think that the "butt" portion is located well away from the current end of the heel, meaning, there should be plenty of meat to chew on, before running into saw-teeth destruction.

But in point of fact, chuck has it right - why cut the whole thing off, when you only need to undercut the fingerboard? I think I'd lay the neck in a supporting gulley, clamp it down, lay up my jig (to prevent the router from going cattywhampus), and take said router to the heel, shaving back that 1.5cm or so.

The depth of wood that needs to go away can be found easily. Insert the neck into the pocket and snug it up. Pencil a line on the neck where it clears the body (and the pickguard, if need be), and let your router bit take out that line, but no more than that.

The trick to all of this is, of course, if you remove too much, then you're in worse doo-doo than before. So it behooves you to cut often, in very small increments, until you're sure that you've arrived at the correct dimension. This is one place where I would not trust my eyeballs!

newey's assertion above needs more clarification. From the smaller strings to the larger, the string lengths get progressively longer. (There is a step when going from plain to wound strings, but that's not our concern at this time.) That magic 25½ inches is measured from the inside of the nut to the inside of the high E string's saddle. For practical purposes, you can measure to the top center of the saddle - that's so close that there's no reason to argue about it. But unless your fret nut is really badly shaped, then don't measure to the center of that, measure to the inside edge.

That's just the way I'd do it, if I couldn't bring myself to find and use a neck that already fits. The only other way that makes any sense is to step up to the counter and give the nice luthier a chunk of your lunch money.

HTH



sumgai

Thanks, that's a great idea. I hadn't considered it and wouldn't think of it because honestly I'm not accustomed to seeing guitars with a fingerboard overhang. None of the guitars I've had around have had that. I like the idea of not losing one of the frets. I really like not having to think that I'll need to use the belt sander to round the end of the neck to fit the pocket.

But, really, now... couldn't I just do this with two cuts on the beloved band-saw and some hand sanding? (Plus new mounting holes, of course.)