peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 23, 2009 18:45:21 GMT -5
Hi Everybody!
I recently got a good deal on a pair of EMG Buckers, so now I must build an axe around them.
Here is a diagram of the rather ambitious wiring I have chosen. The blend/balance pots on each bucker should provide a smooth transition between coils, and the same for the "blend of blends."
I'm really not sure about the wiring, especially around the Ser/Par and Phase switches ( soon to be replaced with a rotary pot, I think). If you see anything obviously wrong, Please let me know! Thanks!
i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/Wiring04-2Humbuckers3BlendsVol-Tone.jpg
This is my first attempt at a build, both woodworking AND electrical, so please be patient.
Thanks for your time,
Peter
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 23, 2009 20:17:59 GMT -5
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Post by sumgai on Aug 23, 2009 23:26:44 GMT -5
p-rab, I can see several major problems, and a minor one to boot. Let's start small..... You show a cap in parallel with a resistor between the circuit "ground" and the Bridge/Strings - why's 'at? This certainly isn't for any kind of alleged protection from an amplifier fault, so what is it, may we ask? Biggie #1: I think you're gonna be unpleasantly surprised when you blend two pickup coils, and then try to switch the combination from parallel to series - you've tied one end (the Black wire) to the signal return (nee 'ground') right next to the pickup, and you also blend that same lead to the signal return or to the "hot" or signal output. I don't think that's gonna do much for your tone, eh? Biggie #2: You show the Ser/Par switch for the two pickups as needing only one pole. If you're successful at this, I think you'd better get in line for a patent, 'cause everyone else needs a DPDT switch to do it correctly. Even you use DPDTs for the two individual pups - see your push-pull switches...... (Let alone that the switch you show is not a SPST, it's a SPDT, but that's neither here nor there. ) Biggie #3: You must be left-handed - your volume control is wired to give full output at maximum CCW rotation (viewed face-on, as you're playing), and minimum when rotated fully CW. But there ain't no shame in that one, prolly a third of the NutzHouse is filled with lefties, so you're in good company here! ;D HTH sumgai
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 24, 2009 13:14:46 GMT -5
Sumgai, thanks for taking the time to respond. Your comments are very insightful, and I will take full advantage of them (if I can figure out how).
This is gonna take a little time to digest and re-arrange in my head and on paper, but I SHALL RETURN!
Peter
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peterrabbit
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My mileage DOES vary
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 24, 2009 14:31:39 GMT -5
First, hello to everybody! ChrisK - I hope you don't mind my little joke with the avatars!
Sumgai, thanks for taking the time to respond to this...this...abomination!
It's not that I don't love a good challenge, but Rockin' Rats! - I thought I was nearly finished with the wiring part.
O.K., got that off my chest. Now -
Of course you may ask about the small question of the bridge ground!!! The real credit goes to: www.jpbourgeois.org/guitar/micos1.htm (a few interesting wirings here) and also, on GuitarNuts own SHOCK HAZARDS page (near the bottom): : Disconnect the bridge ground wire on your guitar or use a small (about .02uf) capacitor shunted by a large (about 220k) resistor to isolate the bridge from the rest of the ground. Note that this may significantly increase the amount of hum you experience. Also note that this is only a partial fix – the jack plate and some other exposed metal parts (including metal volume and tone knobs) of your guitar and amplifier will still be potentially lethal. --------- For Biggie #1: Yes, I see exactly what you mean. I thought that, given this wiring, the positive (hot) should come off of the bottom left contact (of the bridge push/pull) and the negative should come off the bottom right contact and go to ground. Otherwise, I don't know where to get the signal for the lower sweep lug on the bridge blend/balance/pan/ pot. I guess it's the same for both P/Ps. I read the section on Blend and Pan Pots and that brings up a whole other issue! In order to maintain some sort of balanced volume throughout the blend/balance/pan/ pots' interconnections, would you recommend linear or audio tapers? From what ideas I could gather (steal), it seems a consensus that linear sounds better. What are your thoughts? ---------
For Biggie #2: Yeah, I noticed the SPST thing after I posted to Photobucket, along with a few other forgotten things (like the "500K Audio 500K Linear" on the extreme right) that should be gone. It just seemed to be too much of a pain to change. I do take your point about the S/P switch - will fix! But I should mention that I may put the Pup/Pup Par/Ser - Phase In/Out issue (currently two, well, one-and-a-half, DPDT toggles) into a 4 position rotary switch, since the coils must be in one of those 4 combinations. We'll see. ---------
For Biggie #3: Nope, not a Lefty, just confused. Did I mention that this is my first attempt at anything like this? I don't want anyone to hold my hand, just don't race by me tooo quickly!
Just for my edification, did you find the photos in the diagram useful, as opposed to line drawings, for showing the connections and positions of the parts?
Thanks again,
Peter
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Post by sumgai on Aug 25, 2009 12:51:11 GMT -5
pr, Oh, I see, you used photos of the parts instead of just simple drawings.... not bad, not bad. Made no difference to me, but perhaps for others, well, I'll not speak on their behalf. I can get along either way, so long as I can see the connections themselves. I don't have any issues with either Linear or Audio tapers, both work for me. What I do have an issue with is that for true Blend pots, there seems to be a real gap or hole in the supply chain..... The manufacturers could make these just as easily as they make regular pots, but there's so little demand for them, outside of the pro audio arena, that they don't bother - not enough profit in it for them, or sumpin' like that. As for the rest, all I can say is "keep working on it!" Someone's gotta do the dirty work aroond here, it might as well be you!! HTH sumgai
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Post by KIIMH on Aug 25, 2009 13:00:50 GMT -5
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 26, 2009 2:29:22 GMT -5
Hi, Kyle is in my head! (Dare I ask who Kyle is and why he's ... oh nevermind)
"there were links hidden in that blue text?"
Indeed - the turned kind of red by themselves when I colourised the text blue.
Sumgai, I've already got my shovel in hand. I'll let you know the next time I think I have a clue! Might be soon, I hope.
In the meantime, try this link (It's red!) www.nymphusa.com/kisekae/kisekaeE1.asp
Thanks guys, and keep yakkin' at me - I might actually get'er done!
Peter
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Post by ashcatlt on Aug 26, 2009 11:15:50 GMT -5
It's red in your world because you've been to that link recently and your browser recognizes that fact. Those of us who haven't see your links as the exact same color as your text.
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Post by KIIMH on Aug 26, 2009 11:19:39 GMT -5
dud, you dont even want to know ... i am like michael knight ... a man who does not exist.
Now, then, did you know that my own blue text had a link in it? There is - go back and take a looky (hint: there's also a link in this sentence).
Your links are showing up as blue text - that's how cum we know they are links that you might want us to, like, click on er sumpin ... except the blue text gets hidden in the blue text that you employ.
They look blue in colour to me (are you a Canuck, or from the UK? ) unless I click on them ... then they turn kind of red by themselves. But we can't make them turn red all by themselves if we can't find the links hidden in that there blue text.
D'oh!
I'm just havin' fun with you here, but lemme ask you:
Do you see this forum as being more for an IBM kind of a guy, or more for an AC/DC kind of a guy?How's about we get our text color back in black? ( ... like terryturtle does ... say, are you guys related?) .. sorry to be an armpit, dud, but - liek ... i am kyle is in my head and that's my hole reazon for existing ... sincerelike, kyle is in my head
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Post by sumgai on Aug 26, 2009 12:20:28 GMT -5
pr, Your link simply takes one to a redirection page - www.nymphusa.com/kisekae/bookmark.asp which in turn yields this text: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` T.C.T Please visit this page from The Complete Telecaster's top page. Thank you The Complete Telecaster English Japanese ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~` That's what we denizens of the web call an error of kaa-kaa-poo-poo proportions. I might be interested in whatever is located at that page, if you could find a link that doesn't go haywire on us poor users. ALL:As to the color of text and/or links..... It's not common knowledge, but all browsers use a default configuration page, or in the case of browsers made since 2003 or so, they use a default CSS sheet. These configs are what determine your color scheme, if you don't do any customization yourself. In fact, when you do customize your browser, those changes are stored in one of these config pages. But not every browser uses the same default layout, for sure. Whereas the default color of an unclicked link in IE might be blue, in Opera it might be red, or any other browser/color combo you care to name. This why it's dangerous to play with color except for the occasional emphasis of small portions of text. Black seems to be regarded as the only universal default color of text over a white, or nearly white, background - all other colors are fair game and open season! In short, go ahead and use whatever color you wish when posting, but just be aware that someone will soon question your intent, particularly if later on you refer to a link within that colored text, which they missed because it looked like the same color to them (when still unclicked). And no, expecting a browser to denote a link with underlining isn't a hot idea either - some browsers do that as a default value, others don't. It defaults to On in IE, but I have mine turned off, a customization of my own peculiarity. HTH sumgai
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 26, 2009 12:37:48 GMT -5
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Post by D2o on Aug 26, 2009 13:04:11 GMT -5
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 27, 2009 0:25:42 GMT -5
Hey guys! Sumgai - O.K., Sorry about the link not working, try this one: www.nymphusa.com/kisekae/kisekaeE1.aspor: www.nymphusa.com/tele/or: www.telemodders.com/useful_links.html(the link is 7th from the bottom) one of these has got to work!. It's really fun! May we try this again? Here is the latest incarnation of the 3 balance pot wiring dealie - i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/Wiring05-2Hums3BlendsVol-ToneSer-1.jpgOh PLEASE tell me that this will do what I want - I've had all I can stands, I cain't stands no more! -help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help-help Re: the SPDT toggle for the neck/bridge Ser/Par, The patent should be awarded to the guy at GuitarElectronics that draws the diagrams! I got the ideas from here: i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/wiring-2hums-ser-parphase.jpgand here: i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/Wiring-2humbuckersdualcoiltapmaster.jpgand here, too: i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/Wiring-2humbuckers3-wayleverswitcho.jpgAll at www.GuitarElectronics.comkyle is in my head and ashcatlt - I did know, but had forgotten, about the utility of cascading style sheets in creating websites. From now on, I'm ridin' the waves properly, in black, my favorite [lack of] colour. kyle is in my head - Is the forum for AC/DC or computer guys, hmmm... That's really tough to answer because I'm both, and I think this forum is as well, in different areas. Plus, I'm not just old-school, I'm actually old, so I originally learned the little I do know about wiring over 45 years ago! Oh, yeah, Canuck for the past 30 years - you spotted it right on! Asbury Pahk New Joisey before that. ChrisK - I'm in big trouble - I pushed the button - I'm so ashamed... Youse guys are also a ton of fun. Thanks again and yet again!!! Peter
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Post by newey on Aug 27, 2009 6:18:08 GMT -5
PR-
The diagram looks OK but has several minor anomalies. The specs indicate that the Vol pot gets a .001µf cap, together with a 220KΩ resistor, for an RC circuit (a good idea). However, the diagram itself shows a .0022µf cap. Either one would probably work OK.
We are also told that, in order to prevent shocks, a capacitor is wired on the bridge/string ground. However, the diagram shows another RC circuit on the bridge ground, with the same .001µf cap they said was for the volume control. But it also includes a 220K resistor in parallel with the cap.
The latter mod can be expected to generate no small amount of debate . . .
The
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 27, 2009 9:26:31 GMT -5
The drawing shows the 0.0022 uF cap/220K resistor going from the volume pot out to guitar ground. This is not how the treble preservation circuit works. This will shunt the highest frequencies to ground.
It should go from the volume pot hot in to the volume pot out.
The neck pickup has the black signal wire connected to guitar ground. Therefore, phase reversal is not possible as wired.
The SPDT switch proposed for inter-pickup series/parallel does not do this. When the switch connects the neck red wire to guitar ground, it shorts out the neck south coil. In its other position, it connects the neck south coil in parallel with whatever is selected for the bridge. This is not inter-pickup series/parallel.
All three blend/pan pots have guitar ground connections thus preventing an inter-pickup series structure.
It's possible that there will be 7 pots in parallel (both sections of three blend/pan pots and the volume pot) as well as the tone circuit.
On even the brightest days this will be a very dark sounding guitar.
Following your wiring diagram is giving me an aneurysm. Wiring diagrams are situational instantiations which obfuscate the architectural detail. Please design from a schematic view. Once you "see" things from this perspective, the modular nature of the design will become obvious as well as the module interactions.
The wiring instantiation can be "poured" when the architecture is complete.
You're trying to build a house from the inside out without any view as to what the house really looks like overall.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 27, 2009 13:53:48 GMT -5
pete, Sorry, needs more work.... still not ready for prime time. Go back and closely inspect the diagram at Ser/Par switch (Guitar Electronics). You'll find that only one pickup has it's Black wire connected to the system ground (or signal return, as it should be called). By having the Black wire on both pickups grounded, you will never achieve a series connection between the two pups. (Unless you purposely choose to completely disconnect that coil.....) You also need to aim your BS detector at that "single pole" series/parallel switch. I think you'll find that when it's in the alleged series position, both of the Neck pickup leads are connected to the 5-way switch...... Fortunately the fix is simple - merely remove the wire running from the Bridge 'hot' to the 5-way switch and replace it with three wires, like so: One wire from the Bridge 'hot' lead to the empty middle terminal of the Ser/Par switch (a DPDT unit, thankfully); Another wire from the upper free terminal on that same DPDT switch to the 5-way switch, in the same place(s) as was the previous connection; Place a final piece of wire across the two bottom terminals of the DPDT switch; ..... and you're done. HTH sumgai
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Post by D2o on Aug 28, 2009 9:40:31 GMT -5
Hey, Pete! kyle is in my head is my imaginary evil alter ego / retarded younger brother / whatevah ... although he sounded like he had half a load in his last post. I'll have to work on that .... usually he's a total dufus, not just a big dufus. IBM was in reference to "Big Blue", just another lighthearted poke at the blue text, and AC/DC was about going "Back in Black" with the text (you got that part, I see). I had no idea that you were old-school enough that you may also know the name Tom Watson, in connection with IBM. Your initiation into wiring pre-dates me. Thanks for bein' a good spoit, Pete - hope to see more of you. D2o P.S. Asbury Pahk, eh? You may know this Springsteen album ...
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Aug 29, 2009 2:49:08 GMT -5
Its O.K., I'm back now! (in glorious black and ... well, black) (with blue racing stripes) (yeah - in glorious black and blue) (sheesh...that just sounds wrong) A very hearty welcome and thanks to Sumgai, ChrisK, kyle is in my head, D2o-(Split personality, eh? I dares ya to come down HERE! I gots hundreds!) and Newey. I hope I haven't been too much of a pain (yet) with this wiring business. Well, not for the faint of heart, if you can stand it some more: i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/Wiring06-2Hums3BlendsVol-ToneSer-Pa.jpgChrisK: 1 fixed treble bleed - OK? 2 removed ground from neck pup - OK? 3 Changed SPDT to DPDT on pup/pup Ser/Par - OK? 4 removed grounds from blends - OK? 5 "Following your wiring diagram is giving me an aneurysm. Wiring diagrams are situational instantiations which obfuscate the architectural detail. Please design from a schematic view. Once you "see" things from this perspective, the modular nature of the design will become obvious as well as the module interactions." - I agree completely that the architectural structure is obfuscated by the diagrammatic overlay. But don't ya think a little obscurity is nice in this hyper-real world? Anyway, as soon as I learn to translate diagrams into schematics, you'll be the second to know! Besides, if I learn it all right now, who will I have left to annoy? (sorry about the aneurysm, perhaps your own internal 'wiring' is in situational flux?) "You're trying to build a house from the inside out without any view as to what the house really looks like overall." - Yeah, I like to buy the furniture first, then build a house around it. (No, I do take your point, and I'll think about the analogy of house design to guitar building, including the woodworking etc. I think this will help me quite a bit! YOU SMART! ME LISTEN.) Sumgai: I've really taken a long look at this thing and I see that you are absolutely right about about the BS detector - is it really possible that GuitarElectronics could be that irresponsible as to put 'just plain wrong' wiring diagrams up like that? And so many! Anyway, I HOPE I've finally put that puppy to bed. Since I changed out the SPDT for a REAL switch, I thought I'd try an intuitive leap and figure it out myself, so it's slightly different from your suggestion. Assuming that it doesn't work/you disagree (same thing really,) I will bow to your expertise and step up to your idea. (plus, yours will work.) D2o: So, 21st Century Schizoid Man, I assume at least one of your personalities is a wiring genius. How long ya bin at wiring? You're right, I missed the BIG BLUE reference - my bad. And, yeah I'm THAT old-school, before PCs, the internet, cell (or cordless) phones, seat belt requirements of ANY kind - and 'one more drinky-poo for the road' was a good thing! If any of youze guyz remember lawn darts, chemistry sets, wood-burning kits, or - get ready - Daniel Boon Official Coonskin Caps (boy, thats really goin' back) usually came with a cap pistol and holster, Nikl-Nip wax soda bottles - maybe 2 inches tall, the Silvertone single lipstick-tube pup, fibre-board (I think) guitar with amp-and-speaker-in-case (made by DanElectro and sold through Sears-Roebuck and Macy's) - let us know! I found an enlightening soliloquy regarding string/bridge anti-shock grounding, along with other grounding issues: www.harmony-central.com/Guitar/Faqs/faq/faq.grounding.txtA man takes his six-year-old son to the doctor, and says "I don't know what's wrong him." The doctor looks at the boy and sees that he has a carrot in each ear, a greenbean in each nostril and a cabbage leaf for a hat. The doctor looks at the father and says "the problem is obvious: he isn't eating properly!" Thank you all for your help - don't think it's not appreciated. Peter
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Post by sumgai on Aug 29, 2009 13:45:44 GMT -5
Peter, Don't think I'm banging my head against my son's Buck Rogers lunch pail (I'm that old!), but you need some more "helpful instruction". Not a bad thing, certainly. I figure you've been around long enough to have a thick enough skin that what follows won't hurt..... too much. First, the two coil blenders that have olive-green and green wires going out to the master blender. Notice that they are connected to the same cross-wire on each of the controls, whereas the other cross-wire has nothing? Second, the way your ser/par switch is wired still won't work. But rather than tell what page number at the back of the book has the answers, I'll let you stew over it for a few more hours. Third, there's yet another fly in the ointment, and plucking it out will help solve the ser/par switching issue. Take a look at the connections leading to the Neck/Bridge blender.... see where the two blend pots feed the overall pot (assuming the correct wiring)? That's a hard-wired parallel input, no? And there's no indication anywhere that one of those pots is cut out of the picture.... This leads you to the question of 'how can a series connection be affected when both pickups are still fully on and in parallel?' The thing to do here is to consider placing the ser/par switch after two blend pots. In working this out, I believe that you'll solve both problems at the same time. Once you have that worked out, go back and make sure that each pickup behaves in the same way - ser/par switch, then blend control (you don't have those right, either). Place the Phase switch after the Neck's blend control, and before the main ser/par switch. <pedantic pedagogary on>Would you think me too harsh if I now said that this is why Chris prefers the schematic approach, and not the layout? Design ideas are quickly and easily modularized in a schematic, not so easily in a layout. Using modules, or templates, one can take advantage of "already tested" solutions, and get the job done quicker and more assuredly of success. I'm sure Chris will be only too glad to link you to some of our Modules and/or Templates threads. I'm both a glutton for punishment (rationalizing it as "a challenge") and retired, so I have the time and inclination to go through these things. But while my help is based on 50+ years of experience, I'm not the only one here. I sometimes miss things (but being old lets me blame it on Old-timers Disease!), so it's good to have the input of others, nearly none of whom were ever issued their Secret Decoder Ring. Which is why I point out that making things easier for them to dig through is a good idea. </self-important blustering off>Enough for now, we'll see you in the funny papers! ;D HTH sumgai
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 29, 2009 14:07:29 GMT -5
Your diagram still is incomplete. Perhaps if you posted a logical description of what you think that it does that would be of help. I have an excellent understanding of electronic system design, likely from spending 30+ years as an electrical engineer designing embedded analog and microprocessor control systems and having a number of patents issued and pending. I understand and design fairly complex wiring schemes for guitars; The HSS All Mode 'Caster 20070808 The PRS RotoBuckerMy point is that while I've mentioned several flaws with your "plumbing", your solution is just to remove connections without understanding why or where they should go. I don't create new wiring designs by simply modifying existing ones that other's have done (usually), but by starting with specifications (what it's supposed to do) and implementing from there. This is fairly simple and straightforward. Once you can quantify what this design is supposed to do electrically (please leave out all the Tele twang, Strat quack, Brian May, and metal metaphors as they are meaningless from a logical switching perspective), I will be more than willing to help. However, I will not take the time to trace your plumbing into a schematic and then try to figure out what it actually does and what you might think/hope that it does. Wiring design is a logical process. It starts with specifications. When one embarks on a trip, it helps to have a destination in mind. hintThis module could form the basis for each pickup as well as both pickups in series and parallel as it is a DPDT switch and a true blend pot. Series_Parallel Blend Pot w/ DPDT switchThese modules offer alternative ways of doing blended series/parallel; Fun with switches, take 1 sections "D" and "F". /hintIf your intent is to arrive at a functional design, do let me know. I will require that you figure out things and understand how things work. I will not just do everything for you.
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Sept 4, 2009 15:21:22 GMT -5
Howdy Buckaroos! First, let me interject a note of apology to ChrisK: I didn't mean to imply anything negative about your internal wiring, it was just supposed to be word-play, and I'm sorry. Well, it looks like it's the schematic drawing board for me. I certainly do want to arrive at a functional design - although I won't be on stage with this axe, I do want it to be a GOOD THING with lots of options. "However, I will not take the time to trace your plumbing into a schematic and then try to figure out what it actually does and what you might think/hope that it does." - I certainly never wanted anyone else to figure this out FOR me, I was hoping this would turn into a useful learning experience for myself and anyone else who happens upon this thread. I see that I have started to become a rather large pain, so I'm gonna slow it down a bit and wait until I get the wood and bits to do the build, and then I'll worry abooooot the routing and hardware etc. I will try one thing here, and if thats wrong, then I quit (for now). Is this the correct format to start with? Tnx ^g Peter
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Post by JohnH on Sept 4, 2009 17:50:24 GMT -5
Just chipping in. Based on where you are heading, I would strongly suggest losing at least two of the blend pots, and probably all three.
Passive pickups depend, for the clarity of their tone, on having as direct a connection as possible from pickup to output. Even a single volume control affects this. All those blend pots, plus the usual T + V, add up to a recipe for mud blended with muddy mud like mud!
If you like lots of options, and prefer knobs that twist rather than flick, theres lots you can do with rotary switches. eg, as an extreme case, three 4pole 6way rotary switches will give you every possible combination of the coils of each pickup, and the overall combinations of two pickups. A more useful version might be a three or four way rotary for each pup, and a 5 way for pup combinations, leaving out the nastier sounding out of phase combos. That followed by simple tone and volume gives you a heap of usable sounds with no tonal compromise. cheers John
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 4, 2009 20:04:02 GMT -5
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Post by ashcatlt on Sept 4, 2009 21:32:36 GMT -5
ChrisK's picture there illustrates the point I was going to make: Exactly one phase switch is required in this instance, since there's only 2 pickups. There will be no noticeable difference to normal humans when both switches are flipped in the same direction. Audiophiles and some engineers may claim to hear a difference if they know what you've done.
That is, only relative phase matters. |1 + 1| = |(-1) + (-1)|
This pic does not seem to give the option of either pickup by itself, however.
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Post by ChrisK on Sept 9, 2009 20:24:07 GMT -5
It was intended to bring the logic of a block diagram view to the original concept.
If the blend pots are not (over)used, then a pickup selector switch will have to be included.
Elimination the two blend pots for the intra-pickup blending will go a long way to clearing up the mud.
The inter-pickup blend pot could still be used as the pickup selector with the master volume and tone.
The application of said logic seems to have settled things down a bit.
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peterrabbit
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Post by peterrabbit on Oct 2, 2009 20:53:38 GMT -5
Hey Folks - I'm ba-ack! Kyle - Where the heck you been? Ain't heard nothin' for awhile. ChrisK - your last post on the boards here was the middle of last month, are you still around and O.K.? Sumgai - still in the salt mines, eh? JohnH - Haven't heard from you lately, either. Ashcatlt - just every once in a while you drop a piece of good knowledge on me, keep it up! OK, if you're STILL interested: i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt101/Peter-Rabbit/9-Oct0209Beginnings02.jpgI studied the possibilities of using two 5-way switches, either regular Strat-style or superswitches, or a combo. Too complex. Same for rotos. I am already learning a new language (diagrammatic wiring drawing), trying to learn another (schematic drawing) and have absorbed the internal workings and peculiarities of a bunch of different parts, and how they relate to each other. Just not 5-ways and rotos yet. The change from blend pots - that are basically dual concentric pots - to single pots will remove the resistance of three pots, and using no-load pots for tone and volume, which I usually leave all the way up, will remove the resistance of another two pots, leaving just three in line always. That should take care of the sound of muddy mud covered in mud sauce with a cherry-sized chunk of mud on top! Again, if anything obvious LEAPS at you with claws out, let me know. There is a (very good) chance that I have mis-wired something (the pup-to-ser/par DPDTs wiring springs to mind), if so SCREAM at me till it's RIGHT! So, thanks again and again, again and again! Peter
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Post by sumgai on Oct 3, 2009 1:32:48 GMT -5
pr, Well, we'd love to scream at you, but we've already picked apart your last layout drawing, and your erstwhile block diagram too, so what's next in rabbit-ville? Text descriptions are OK, but when something is as complicated as your overall circuit, such descriptions tend to get waylaid.... at least in my brain. Updated diagram, please? sumgai
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peterrabbit
Meter Reader 1st Class
My mileage DOES vary
Posts: 67
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Post by peterrabbit on Oct 3, 2009 13:57:12 GMT -5
Oh, Deah, that WAS my updated diagram, started from scratch two days ago. I tried to incorporate all the wisdom (except learning schematics) so kindly shared with me by y'all.
Still royally screwed, eh? Well, I suppose I can always buy a prewired pickguard, since this wiring business doesn't seem to be my forte.
Thanks for all your help guyz. I'll keep checking back.
Peter.
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Post by sumgai on Oct 3, 2009 15:29:37 GMT -5
pr, Sorry, my mistake. When I first viewed the link, it didn't "take", I got a 404..... It works now, and I've gone through it - here's what I found: (I think I have a good idea of what my next Basic Training topic will be - Blend Pots. ) I hate to say this, please accept it in the most diplomatic tones one can achieve, but you're even further off-base than when you first started. There are 3 main problems here, as noted; 1) (Applies to either pickup.) The coils are switched parallel or series correctly, but that p/s switch shares the same two pickup leads over to the blend pot. FWIW, you can't do that - the whole point of the p/s switch is to isolate the pickup coils from all further circuitry down the line - you haven't done that. 2) (Applies to all three blend pots, though I use a pickup in my example) Each of these pots is standard, by your own parts specification. But when you hook the two leads of a signal generator (the pickup) across a single load (the resistive element in the pot), you have no reference to a common point in the circuit for other components to use - what we commonly call "the ground". Your pickup connects a bare wire to ground, true, but that's for grounding the pup's frame and cover to reduce/eliminate hum and buzz - it's totally disconnected from the signal portions of the pickup. So now you have, essentially, a single point of signal, the output of the blender at the middle terminal (aka, the pot's wiper). Since it has no reference to ground, it's useless, by and by. Sorry, but that's the way electronics works. Remember, a circuit is a complete "circle" of how the electrons flow out of one point, and back into that same point. Along the way, there may be some modifications to those electrons, but there won't be anything, if there's no complete circuit to begin with. 3) (Applies to all three blend pots.) Worse, even if there was a signal ground for the blend pots to use as a reference, the output of that pot would be greatly variable in volume, on the order of full-strength for one input, through the middle rotation position (5 on your knob) at nearly no audible signal at all, to full-strength for the other input. At the half-way point of rotation, you are effectively inserting 500KΩ of resistance between each input terminal and the output terminal. This isn't good, my friend, not good at all. Not to mention that the rate of change will be drastice between the two states (fully one way or the other, versus somewhere in the middle). The rate at which this 'change of state' occurs is called the "taper" of the pot. You specified linear, but I'm here to tell you, the combined action of the coil and that 500KΩ of resistance will not be linear at all, it wll suddenly "come on" at 2 or 9, and between those two extremes, you'll get less and less signal out. (Again, assuming a correct ground reference point.) I guess that now that I've lined it all out, you've got only three problems, that's all - but what doozies they are! At this point, you do have two choices. You might guess that we'd all like to see you stick with it here, because eventually everyone goes away happy. But if you're in a hurry (you've got paying gigs to play), then we'd understand if you went the "pre-assembled" route. But somehow I doubt that anybody out there is gonna pre-assemble what you've been asking for. It could be, the web/world is a big place, and I certainly haven't personally seen it all, but when one considers the money involved, it's hard to see the cost/benefit ratio, even for the most avid custom builder. Your wallet would have to have a clone, possibly even two clones, in order to afford it. Before I go any further, why don't you take a breather, gather your "list of necessities" about you, and then report back to us which way you want to jump. We'll be waiting for you! HTH sumgai
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