Pup combination possible?

[cross]

(Edit: moved to Electronics and Wiring, 3/19/08, by sumgai)

Hey everyone,

I'm new here. N what else should I do except asking a question first...

I'm into guitar building, frankensteining, modding etc. and I'm a sucker for wirings and gimmicks.

I planned building a guitar next year in my vacations and so I'm starting to collect ideas, make plans, draw designs, order parts etc.

And concerning the wiring etc I guess I'm at the right place:

So my idea is to build a jazz fusion 7 string.

The pups will be made by Harry Haeussel (www.haeussel.com) who is doing the pups for Nik Huber as well (www.nikhuber.com) I hope y'all know 'em because they're doing real great stuff.

Anyway:

I plan to do a special pup combination. For the neck and bridge two SC sized railbuckers with Alnico2 magnets for a weak glassy sound going into gretsch or ricky territory. attached to those rails I wanna put SC sized p90s to beef em up as required.

Via a 3way toggle I would switch between SCs, Rails, and both types together for a beefier PAF like sound.

My question would be: Is it possible like in the pic below?
(I've put the SC in the neck closer the fretboard for slightly mellower sound and a more crisp from the Rail, and in the bridge it'S actually the same) Other advices?

[newey]

Cross-

Welcome aboard!
You state:

I'm a sucker for wirings and gimmicks.

We are all also infected with this disease. Some of us are carriers. ;D

Your scheme is certainly possible. The only suggestions I would have are that, first, you may want to consider whether one of the P90 style pups should be RWRP so as to get some humbucking when the 2 are used together, Second, you are seriously limiting your options with just one 3-way switch. Do you really not want the ability to choose one (or both) neck pups alone, or one (or both) bridge pups by themselves?

Even in your switching scheme as you propose it, you may find it necessary to use a double-pole style switch just to deal with the overall number of wires you are going to have to solder to a common point. In other words, not an electrical problem but a practical one of physically routing wires to the switch.

BTW, is that photo actually the guitar you will be using, or just for a representation of the pickups you will be using? I'm interested in knowing what that guitar is . Can't read the logo from the photo.

[cross]

hey - as you can see from the pic (btw that's the result of a virtual guitar modeling site, check it out: www.nymphusa.com/kisekae/kisekaeE1.asp . I chose the upper model which is from sp guitars)
... Iiiiiiii want to use a 5 way as well. probably a megaswitch. the 3 way toggle on the upper part is for the SC/rail switching. I'm not yet too sure about my plans with the megaswitch, so the 3way toggle makes sense, so the SCs n rails must be included in every position, so I don't have any grounded out switch combinations.

so to make things clearer, except for the number of strings, that's a rough plan I designed with that modeling page. master vol master tone, 3way toggle for sc/rail, 5way megaswitch(we'll see what I'll do with that - input welcome ) and between vol n tone is a mini toggle representing an EMG PA2 booster to give the extra kick for the heavy parts(the kinda weak Alnico2 and the p90 should deliver together some kind of vintage PAF output) and since I got my Blade Strat with that active EQ switch I'm a real fan of that option.

[newey]

Cross-

Oh, ok, I see what you're after. Your options with the 5-way megaswitch will be numerous.

However, I still think you need to cogitate further on the 3-way toggle. If you put the 3 way on the pickup side of the 5-way (.i.e., pickups run to the 3 way first), you're still going to always have a bridge/neck pair on at all times, and the later-in-the-chain 5 way can't "undo" that.

In a somewhat-related post I started here:

guitarnuts2.proboards45.com/index.cgi?board=coffee&action=display&thread=1200109500

The discussion of wiring a 4-pup Strat is raised (after a lot of banter about other things). That project is now planned, but I'm on hold for the moment with other things going on. But my thought was to treat it as, essentially, 2 separate guitars, each with a pair of pickups, before combining the 2 sets. This would involve 2 3-way toggles, one controlling each pair of pickups. In your scheme, one toggle would give you the P90 Neck/both/bridge, while the other toggle would do the same with the blade pups.

What you would do thereafter with the five-way is an open question, but the above scheme would give you individual pickup options at least, and also would not allow for any dead positions.

[sumgai]

cross,

Hi, and welcome to the NutzHouse! ;D

When this kind of request comes up, it's often best to lay back and let the banter flow. That's happened, now let's get out the pencil sharpener.......

From my perspective as a designer, I need to know what the final goal is, before I can figure out how to obtain that goal. In other words, what sounds do you want out of this guitar? As newey points out, you have an embarrassment of riches, tone-wise. So the bottom line here becomes, do want all the conceivable and possible combinations, or are you after something specific?

And of course at this point, we're just mangling electrons in space, nothing has been wasted, not even time - you can change your mind as often as you wish.

So, what's the first thing you want this guitar to do? (Besides grow an extra finger or two for that seventh string? ;D)

HTH



sumgai

[cross]

... I took care of that respect n soldered n extra finger to my left hand - worth the pain, big time!


From the guitar I want something not available on the market - why build a Tele(besides being the best guitar made, even a wiring freak should admit that )?!

Ok it will have a 26.5 scale 7 strings. that's the weird part. I got long fingers so barre chords with my thumb are possible, further I like playing rhythm/lead n therefore the bass tones come into play.

anyway. I will ask Harry(Hauessel) to make me the A2 Rails a bit weaker, so they are in a Gretsc/Ricky style, because I love the sound of em and the twang, with the longer scale we'll even have some more twang. classic.

I love p90s and their sound, and Harry makes some great BigMAG SCs for the p90 territory - so why not add these as well. for a nice beefy SC blues sound with some bite n more output.

combining the two should bring me a pretty nice sound(in my imagination) and a bit more power. I don't know how the output will add up - you do the math. I don'T have no clou, I thought it might come to a vintage PAF output.

If I need more output the PA2 should come into play which doesn't color the sound but pushes the tubes harder (I play metal on my SSS Blade Strat with such a booster).

I play a lot of different style and that pup combo really could deliver I think.

I see your 3way point... stop. Do I?

Can't I wire the 5way let's say ...

1 - neck rail, neck p90
2 - neck rail split, neck p90, bridge p90
3 - neck rail, neck p90, bridge rail, bridge p90
4 - neck p90, bridge p90, bridge rail split
5 - bridge p90, bridge rail

and wire 3way so I will ground out either the p90s or the rails?

-> Rails

1 - n r
2 - n r split
3 - n r + b r
4 - b r split
5 - b r

-> p90s

1 - n
2 - n + b
3 - n+ b
4 - n + b
5 - b

(dunno if I can do some phasing additional, I don't think so, maybe I should use some push/push pot's for that if needed. but I guess I could live with these positions, gibson double p90 guitars don't have more either n kick butt! even if pos 2,3,4 are the same)

Isn't that possible?

[pete12345]

To cut out either the p90s, rails or neither (both on) and have the 5 way switch, you would need at least a 4 pole, 3 way switch, one pole for each pickup's hot lead. You can get them, but they are all rotary switches rather than blade switches AFAIK. So that would change the look a bit

[cross]

www.guitarelectronics.com/product/SWT36/3Way_4Pole_Toggle_Switch.html


like this??


or like this?

www.guitarelectronics.com/product/SWMS2/3Way_Slider_Switch.html

[pete12345]

The first one wasn't quite what I was thinking of, but it would work just as well. In the center position, both sets of pickups would be on. The slide switch wouldn't work as it is only a 2 pole switch (you need 4 poles) The toggle switch would probably be easier to use than a rotary anyway.

Pete

[cross]

hm - just got this stupid click in my head. why not just use the switches the other way around. the 3way toggle for neck, neck+bridge, bridge

and the 5 way megaswitch for:

1 - Rails
2 - neck rail and neck p90, bridge rail
3 - rails + p90s
4 - neck p90, bridge rail and bridge p90
5 - p90s


..... ? -> ! (?)