|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 23, 2006 16:19:00 GMT -5
In the vices analogy there are no pickups.
If the vices were also secured (with coupling integrity) to a dense substrata, and you tested longevity of sustain with an Ocilloscope, or even a microphone, amplifier and a stopwatch then performed the same test with the wooden guitar, the vices would win the longevity contest.
Where are the pickups for this test>
This vices guitar would be a little difficult to transport to gigs irrespective of gig bag or hardshell case. Also gives a whole new meaning to Rock and Roll and Vice.
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Apr 23, 2006 16:54:09 GMT -5
Rune, Gig bags are one thing, the use thereof speaks to the nurturing of the soul (one's extension, the guitar). Construction of the guitar is something else, it is the building of that extension that we're discussing here. ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ deepblue, Kenny Rogers??? Chicken slogans??? WTH did I miss here? Stop the world, I wanna get off! ~!~!~!~!~!~!~!~ Edit:I see that Rune was posting as I was scribing. I just about burst a blood vessel at thinking about the Roadie Union Shop Steward, as he gets a phone call: 'ring'... 'ring' Union Shop Steward: "Roadie's Union, you muff it, we cuff it." Roadie: "Hey Boss, these jokers want me to haul a whole passel of bench vises to Bumfukt, Egypt! What do I do 'bout that?" USS: "Man, if them lunkheads don't get their sh... together, I'm gonna climb all over their as.... You tell them jackbutts that if they want bench vises hauled over hill and dale, then they'd better start calling the Teamster's Union, because we don't lift nuttin' that don't make music, you got me?" R: "But Boss, they got these things hooked up to some kinda gee-tar, the claim it'll revolutionize music!" USS: "I don't give a go... ripped a.... fu.... shi..... what they claim, you just shag your butt outta there if they don't wise up and drop all this machinist crap! We don't haul Teamster stuff, and the Teamsters don't haul music stuff, and that's that. You got me?" R: "Yeah, Boss, I gotchya." 'click' .... 'ring'... 'ring' R: "Hey Boss, guess what?" USS: "Whatdya want now?" R: "Those musicians I was telling you about? One of them just stubbed his toe on his new-fangled guitar, and he's gotta drop out of the tour! That means that the whole gig's cancelled. What do I do now, Boss?" USS: "What are you asking me for, lunkhead? You don't have to do a thing, except go home. No job, no need to stick around, right?" R: "But Boss, they're tryin' to blame me, because I wouldn't lift the stupid contraption like you said I didn't have to. They sai..." USS: "Hey, wait a minute here, what the fu...'s this sh....?! You mean that they're trying to blame the Union for their stupid troubles?" R: "Yeah, Boss, that's what I'm sayin' here. These guys thing that I ruined their big chance at fame, or sumpin', I dunno." USS: "Well, you tell them for me, and tell 'em I said it personally, that they should go fu... themselves, and furthermore, if they wanna make a guitar out of a bunch of machine shop crap, they shouldn't labeled it as a guitar, they shoulda called it a ... say, wait a minute here.... who'd you say this band was?" R: "I think they were called "The Machinists Revenge"..... 'click' 'bzzzzzzzzz' /editsumgai
|
|
|
Post by Ripper on Apr 23, 2006 19:31:02 GMT -5
Okay, Okay Runewalker!....Lets just agree to disagree! ...Besides, I ruined my vices. They were made in Miami dont ya know ?
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 23, 2006 22:20:18 GMT -5
Okay, Okay Runewalker!....Lets just agree to disagree! ...Besides, I ruined my vices. They were made in Miami dont ya know ? Done, Deep. As both JC and I have found, being right doesn't get you loved. This is an ancient arguement that practically broaches religious ferver. The whole quest for sustain reached rediculous proportions in the '80s. Guitars got loaded up with brass 'sustain blocks', brass nuts (careful, be very careful), additional mass everywhere you could imagine, even metal (aluminum mostly) necks and guitars. Eventually these efforts fell into disfavor and builders returned to wood in it's various species. Sustain was enhansed with these approaches, but many felt the sound became sterile and began to crave the subtle decay rates induced by wood. So different woods definitely shape a guitar's sound in different ways, just not in the ways most guitarists think it does. More in a subtractive way than an additive way. The topic of this thread really is about how stabilizing the poor coupling of the trem (virbrato) on strats changes not only the stability of the tuning, but also the sound, as coupling is improved. Not so much about the wood. But it is a periennial topic and is guarenteed to surface again, for yet more GN2 SmackDowns. The logic of coupling integrity is not argued about as much as the religion of wood. Hey, its all physics. Hats off Deep. RW
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on Apr 25, 2006 16:30:34 GMT -5
Here's another potential solution to the whole "don't want the vibrato no more" problem - just insert this block, and be done with it! Either drill holes through it for a string-through hard-tail, or mount one of the popular ToM style replacement bridges. Doesn't hurt either, that if you don't glue it down, it's a reversible mod. And at only $25, how can you go wrong?? ;D sumgai
|
|
|
Post by papacueball on Apr 25, 2006 19:05:52 GMT -5
Here's another potential solution to the whole "don't want the vibrato no more" problem - just insert this block, and be done with it! Either drill holes through it for a string-through hard-tail, or mount one of the popular ToM style replacement bridges. Doesn't hurt either, that if you don't glue it down, it's a reversible mod. And at only $25, how can you go wrong?? ;D sumgai that's exactly what i used on an ibanez i rescued from a pawn shop. i went the string through route by drilling holes and installing ferrules on the back side of the block. the block was slightly larger than the part of the trem cavity that the sustain block used to occupy, so i was able to trim it for a snug fit and didn't have to glue it in. there was a big improvement in intonation, tuning stability, and sustain.
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 25, 2006 22:00:51 GMT -5
Here's another potential solution to the whole "don't want the vibrato no more" problem - just insert this block, and be done with it! Either drill holes through it for a string-through hard-tail, or mount one of the popular ToM style replacement bridges. Doesn't hurt either, that if you don't glue it down, it's a reversible mod.
And at only $25, how can you go wrong?? ;D
sumgai I've seen these hipshot and other mfg wood block units. The variences in Strat clone spring and inertia block cavity routings are significant, and it is unlikely one size fits all ... will. If it is to large, you can sand to fit. Too small and you have loose coupling. However since it is a Strat you will be used to that.
|
|
|
Post by Ripper on Apr 26, 2006 15:22:54 GMT -5
I sense that was a shot a Strats Runewalker! Hey if I can dish it out I have to be able to take it!
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 26, 2006 15:41:48 GMT -5
I sense that was a shot a Strats Runewalker! Hey if I can dish it out I have to be able to take it! Nahhhh... With all the wood they've hogged out of those bodies, they are as close to an acoustic I am likely to get. I was, and operative word is was, a pretty devoted set-neck, Gibby style guitar devotee. But Leo was a manufacturing genious in the Henry Ford sense. With a interchangable component base approach and simple top routing with "toneplastic" pickguards he made an ideal chassis for the modder. Still love the backrouted set-necks, but they are more trouble to mod. The other thing great about Strats, well mainly the clones, is you can get components at such reasonable prices. I occasionally come accross a set-neck deal, but they are less frequent. I just wish I could get hardtails less expensively. They are less abundant and always more expensive. Could say the same thing about hardbodies, at least the ones that will talk to me.
|
|
|
Post by Ripper on Apr 26, 2006 16:48:53 GMT -5
No, youre right. I guess the main reason I fell in love with Strats is their look. I think ( my opinion ) they look like a guitar should look. Curves, and smooth and they beckon me from across the room....ooops!...I sound like a dime store novel!
I think the bottom line is that a Stratocaster is just that. Itll never be a Les Paul, and a LP will never sound like a Strat. Its funny though, that serious guitar players usually have both guitars in their arsenal.
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 26, 2006 22:24:51 GMT -5
No, youre right. I guess the main reason I fell in love with Strats is their look. I think ( my opinion ) they look like a guitar should look. Curves, and smooth and they beckon me from across the room....ooops!...I sound like a dime store novel! Please, Oh please, don't let Unk see that. He has kind of a symetry fetish, and that will light his candle. Good thing no one reads this stuff. The other thing I found, and I was reluctant to admit this, but a strat is a lot more comfortable to play in terms of how it nestles into your bod, than my venerable LesPaul. Too bad I actually now need the "belly conture. RW
|
|
|
Post by Ripper on Apr 29, 2006 16:36:25 GMT -5
Yes, it seems that Unk does NOT find the Stratocaster pretty at all! Runewalker youre from Texas so you know what a Strat can do for the blues! I agree with you, When I had my cherryburst LP years ago it wasnt that comfy to hold. My back still aches thinking about it.
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on Apr 29, 2006 17:02:39 GMT -5
Yes, it seems that Unk does NOT find the Stratocaster pretty at all! Runewalker youre from Texas so you know what a Strat can do for the blues!
I agree with you, When I had my cherryburst LP years ago it wasnt that comfy to hold. My back still aches thinking about it. Not so much the weight, which I kind of like, as it feels substantive, and (UhOh, we are back to talking physics here) helps secure the coupling with greater density. More of the real genius of Leo, in that contureing of the strat. The forearm conture, alleviates how the LP digs into the front arm, and the belly cut relief, which helps the guitar just settle in.
|
|
|
Post by Mini-Strat_Maine on Apr 30, 2006 14:47:18 GMT -5
Something new, found while looking around on Universal Jems. (Which is operated by Brian Calvert of Project Guitar fame. www.universaljems.com"Tremol-No Tremolo Locking Device with Hardware," on www.universaljems.com/cart/tremolostops.htm. The inventor's site is linked from there, and you can see the video proving that the device can open a beer. The design has been licensed to Allparts. No drilling!
|
|
|
Post by bam on May 9, 2006 6:36:21 GMT -5
it really is cool, but I simply found that a block of wood - I got it for free from a carpenter - does the trick just fine . (and as you might already know, carpenters plays with a wide variety of woods)
|
|
|
Post by dunkelfalke on May 9, 2006 13:09:48 GMT -5
yeah, that rockinger blackbox i mentioned is pretty much the same device. but it costs only 25 euros ;-)
|
|
|
Post by Ripper on May 9, 2006 13:15:06 GMT -5
Some Carpenters dont eat and...well you know!
|
|
|
Post by ux4484 on May 10, 2006 10:08:57 GMT -5
Hi, I'm new to this board.
I've got a Squier Fat Strat, and blocked mine mainly for tuning issues. I had some cedar in the garage and made two blocks that look very similar to the HipShot block, except mine is two seperate pieces. I also made another small insert block to go infront of the trem block for a bit more body contact. Only down side is...you have to use the same gauge strings all the time (which most do anyways). Took quite a bit of sanding/reinstalling to get it right, but now it works great. I wanted to glue it in place (to stay in place during string changes), but that seemed limiting, so I dug in the kids bookbag and grabbed a glue stick. This held them in pefectly, (and can be removed if needed with just a tap or tug). I use D'Addario strings, as even with it blocked, I can never get a set of Fender Bullets stay in tune well. I had a Drop Top bridge on order (backordered until June), while I was waiting, I decided to make my blocks. It worked so well, I cancelled the order.
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on May 12, 2006 1:32:58 GMT -5
ux, to the forums. Yeah, those Bullet strings don't really stand up to usage, we've found out. After all these years, you'd think Fender would have gotten a clue by now, but no, there's just enough sales (probably to beginners who see the name "Fender", and buy it no matter what the problems are), so they don't see any need to change. Sigh. One question, though. Why can't you change string gauges, should you decide to do so for some reason? Seems to me that you've "glued" the wood blocks down, so they shouldn't drop out due to increased/decreased string tension, should they? sumgai
|
|
|
Post by ux4484 on May 12, 2006 9:59:22 GMT -5
Thanks sumgai,
I made my blocks with the strings on and the bridge set perfectly for intonation (quite a chore as it was way off new). I planed and sanded them to fit. They are snug when the strings are on, but would fall out while changing strings (which is why I glue-sticked them). I use .010's, so changing to a heavier gauge wouldn't be a problem, but if I dropped to .009's the rear block would be slightly loose.
Initially I was really concerned with making it be able to change back. But now that I've had it blocked for a while, I've been using my Digitech (RPx400) for trem effects, which works (for me) better than the Squier's trem system.
About that custom shop drop top bridge.... Musicians Friend emailed me that it would be shipping next week. I had put in the request to cancel the order. I called and they said they hadn't processed my cancellation. Now I'm thinking I should just get it. I told them to keep the order live for now. Has anyone here used one of these?
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on May 12, 2006 18:03:54 GMT -5
can't tell from the pix what the bridge does underneath. Is it just a plate that top screws to the bod?
|
|
|
Post by ux4484 on May 12, 2006 18:07:02 GMT -5
Pretty much, but the bridge covers the entire opening. per an email from custom shop, you only have to drill the rear two screw pilots.
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on May 12, 2006 18:22:48 GMT -5
I have an ESP bod I built with a floyd. don't pound it too much because it still mucks the tuning. But the bod is basswood, which I don't care for because it is light and disapates coupling integrity. However, even though the floyd floats it is a mass of steel and the guitar sounds good because the pus are right, and the mass of the bridge improves the sustain. Albeit it is a modern solid sound opposed to a Tuno in an LP.
Did your guitar's sound change when you blocked it?
|
|
|
Post by ux4484 on May 13, 2006 10:30:52 GMT -5
Yes, it got better, especially for the bridge pickup, much deeper tone.
|
|
|
Post by Runewalker on May 13, 2006 12:50:04 GMT -5
Alright. Everybody wants to turn their Strat into a Gibson. That outta tell us sumthin'.
|
|
|
Post by dunkelfalke on May 13, 2006 14:22:12 GMT -5
well, me not anymore. will throw away all the humbuckers and unblock the vibrato (and swap it for a wilkinson) on my suzy.
|
|
|
Post by bam on May 14, 2006 1:11:43 GMT -5
Nope. I want to turn my Strat into a Tele and leave my Floyd-Rosed RG as it is.
|
|
|
Post by sumgai on May 16, 2006 14:50:37 GMT -5
ux, Thanks for cluing me in to that custom bridge! That's just what I've been looking for to test an idea I've had for awhile now. Not cheap, but much cheaper than getting a prototype custom fab done here in local neighborhood! "Oh, I'm off to see the Wizard....." Might be awhile before I get that particular project done, but I'll report back when I'm done. sumgai
|
|
|
Post by ux4484 on May 17, 2006 15:19:29 GMT -5
Good luck finding one, they're backordered everywhere (even custom shop told me so). I just received yet another backorder notice from MF.
I had also been considering one of two other models offered by Southeast music on ebay (I'd post a link, but I DID read the Hock Shop thread on ebay links ;D ). They have both a through the body and top loader version on the cheap. The back of those bridges isn't quite as wide as the custom shop, so I'd think you'd have some gaps if you were replacing a trem, but if you were building from scratch, it looks to be a decent value.
My original thought when I got this guitar (I got it via a trade at GC with a stripped Gibson melodymaker body I found at a garage sale) was to put a FR trem in it, but now that I've had it for a while, my playing style (and poor ability) doesn't really "require" me to use the trem much (like I said before, my Digitech does the job fine).
I mean...c'mon if I'm using it mostly to play Buddy Holly and BoDean's songs....do I really need a trem?
BTW, I did buy one of the Tele Bridges Southeast has to offer (chrome six saddle model) for my 70's era Cortez Tele copy. It was a perfect fit and a definite improvement.
|
|
|
Post by UnklMickey on May 17, 2006 16:05:28 GMT -5
...(I got it via a trade at GC with a stripped Gibson melodymaker body I found at a garage sale)... just when i was beginning to think you were a nice guy, i find out you broke a cardinal rule: unk gets first dibs on Melody Makers!
|
|