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Post by Ripper on Jul 22, 2007 8:48:55 GMT -5
Fellas... I guess this post is for the more seasoned player, but im sure the newer guitarist will have something to say as well. Question? What lessons have you learned over time? What do you do differently now that you didnt do before. Ill have a go... I have learned to back off on my gain. When I was younger it was all about heavy distortion and as much "fuzzy mud" as I could get. Trouble is as we all know your guitars tone gets lost. I now have my gain set a tad left of center, and use compression at the front of my signal to give me a nice warm sustain. I have listened to tape recordings of myself back in the 80's. I could not tell what guitar I was using because lets face it...mud is mud! Now, theres no question im using a Stratocaster w/neck pup engaged! I guess its true. We do mellow with age.
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Post by ChrisK on Jul 22, 2007 17:22:50 GMT -5
Or our hearing is just going (fortunately encompassing most information-bearing frequencies of human female speech) and we have difficulty telling the difference between pickups. Gravity is.
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Post by sumgai on Jul 22, 2007 21:28:46 GMT -5
I have learned that if you have attained the proper state of being, then if you can play one song, you can play ten thousand songs.
Adapted from the Book of Five Rings, by Musashi Miyamoto.
sumgai
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Post by quarry on Jul 24, 2007 17:47:45 GMT -5
I've learned that the saying is really true...
"If its too loud, you're too old!"
[Turned 50 this past March]
Fifty is (the new 30)...
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Post by GuitarTechCraig on Jul 25, 2007 10:22:26 GMT -5
I started playing at the start of the hot pickup fad. I used to think Strats were the wimpiest sounding guitars on the planet. Bring on the DiMarzio Super Distortion humbuckers!!
Now, for me it's not about output but all about the tone. And I love Strats. Actually, i love a lot of guitars, but I definitely prefer vintage-style pickups.
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Post by gumbo on Jul 27, 2007 8:26:42 GMT -5
I've learned to keep listening....
..and not to make hasty decisions!
..amazing what sitting back and doing a bit of research can mean.
...and (actually!) 60 is the new 50..
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 27, 2007 11:22:02 GMT -5
I've learned that I'm never done learning, even in areas in which I excel (music or otherwise). I've learned to tell the Mrs before tearing apart her (former) guitar to rebuild it. And to counter Quarry's point, I have a saying from one of my Favorite songs ( I'm an Adult Now) I've learned that the saying is really true... "If its too loud, you're too old!" "I can't take too much loud music I mean I like to play it, but I sure don't like the racket" I remember practicing back in the band days and playing so loud that we were all dizzy after a long practice. There is such a thing as too loud. ....another thing I've learned The mandolin is not quite the pansy artifact I used to think it was.
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Post by Ripper on Jul 27, 2007 13:41:25 GMT -5
ux...
Quoting from TPOH?....I didnt think anyone outside of Toronto knew of them. hmmmm!
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Post by ux4484 on Jul 27, 2007 14:02:40 GMT -5
ux... Quoting from TPOH?....I didnt think anyone outside of Toronto knew of them. hmmmm! The got some airplay here in "The City" back in their day. Such a great song.
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Post by quarry on Jul 29, 2007 7:36:31 GMT -5
Please don't take my words too literally... As the nest empties, I find the monster of my Second Childhood rearing its (not-so) ugly head! Let's Rock!
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Post by Teleblooz on Jul 29, 2007 21:07:29 GMT -5
I agree with most of the above, but to me the most important thing I've learned is that it's the music that has to take center stage, not the musician. Figuring out what to leave out is as important as what to put in.
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Post by ccso8462 on Jul 30, 2007 15:44:05 GMT -5
Been thinking hard about this, and I think I'd have to agree with telelblooz: What you leave out is definitely as important as what you put in. It can be hard to learn not to play too much, especially if you start out as a solo acoustic act. You get used to doing it all by yourself. When you play with others, it's the blend. Let the music take center stage and put your ego on hold.
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Post by kuzi16 on Aug 15, 2007 1:42:38 GMT -5
i have learned that all the effects in the world dont mean squat. a well written song will sound good no matter what effect is placed on that guitar. The song comes first, then the effects.
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Post by michaelcbell on Aug 15, 2007 8:16:20 GMT -5
I'll totally agree with kuzi, and add this:
With my situation being a little different than most as I am a worship player and the leader of my church's sunday night praise band (yeah, we're not your normal praise band), I've found that a great drummer and solid bass player are essential to my playing. With those pieces in place, I have much more freedom to experiment.
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Post by Ripper on Aug 15, 2007 15:23:37 GMT -5
quarry.... Is that Robert Plant on your avatar pic?
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Post by ccso8462 on Aug 22, 2007 13:37:26 GMT -5
Michaelcbell, you lucky dog!!!
I lead the praise band for the youth group at our church, and I don't get a drummer. There are a few people in the congregation that think drums and electric guitars are straight from the pit of hell !!! I have sneaked in an electric bass: my son and another kid share the duties, and another boy is playing the electric. I lead vocals and play acoustic.
I keep pushing the envelope as much as I can, but I have to walk a thin line. At least we get away with a little more in the PM youth praise/worship. They won't let us do anything electric in the morning service. I keep hoping someone will come up with a set of electric drums so we can blame the sound guy if people don't like it. ;D
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Post by sumgai on Aug 22, 2007 16:22:20 GMT -5
cisco, I might argue that Luddite thinking aside, just what are drums for? To keep the beat, no? Why not simplify, and just use a tamborine or something similar that members can use themselves, without formal training or lengthy practice? Good benefits abound, I'm sure you'll agree. If you're feeling really squirrely, bring in a metronome. An electronic one can be fed into an amp, and the fun will surely ensue. BTW, I would counsel against using the "fuller sound" argument. For much longer than you and/or I have been living, church-goers have been doing just fine without the so-called "full sound", and they'll probably continue to do so long after we're gone. Better might be to bring in some non-drum percussion instruments, like the aforementioned tamborine. Perceived as a non-threat, it's a foot in the door for future enlargement, if nothing else. HTH sumgai
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 22, 2007 16:52:44 GMT -5
Most faiths tend to devolve into religions.
A faith is a living belief/hope in something (usually a Deity) and is based mostly on the genuineness of the heart.
A religion is a set of practices (whether informal or proscribed) that one must follow to be acceptable either to the Deity or followers thereof.
The "bad juju" practices of any belief (or sub-belief) system tends to be based on those things found to be "bad" at the time of the system's formation and are to be avoided at all cost.
There is a Christian sub-belief system that will not visit a movie theater, but has no problem with watching a movie on television or DVD. To this group, some years back a'founding, theaters were the, er, devil's theater.
I've been in churches where the band was having their own Woodstock. A little too much for me. Perchance a little too much joyful noise unto the Lord. It made my ears hurt.
I've also been in churches where the congregation sat firmly on their hands and made a painful noise unto the Lord. It also hurt.
I've also been in churches where the parking lot had Cadillacs galore, but little congregational interest in the jean clad HIV positive bum that came in looking for some/any hope. (Mind you, the congregation DID all have the proper "uniform" on.)
I grew up in the 60's, so that's what I'm used to in church music (folk, some electric, but no guitar solos).
Maybe if one starts hearing the music more than the words being sung, it's too much?
ALL of our mileage will vary on this subject.
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Post by ccso8462 on Aug 22, 2007 16:59:47 GMT -5
Well gai, we've had people in the past that brought their own tambourines and nobody complained. I just don't have anybody that wants to use one right now. I think? Maybe I should take mine along every week and see if somebody will pick it up. Thanks for the suggestion.
The fuller sound argument definitely doesn't work. One of the problems we've had is that the pastor doesn't like too much bass and every Sunday he sits in the same pew. Just so happens it is at the full length of the bass sound waves from the mains. He gets the full wave right in his face. Or rather his ears. Our room acoustics stink so it's hard to make it all sound right - lots of reflective surfaces and a sound room with a window in the balcony. The powers that be don't want to spend the money to mke it better. The sound guys can't hear, and a couple of them hate the bass.
I got an acoustic engineer to come in last year and had the entire worship and sound team come to hear what he had to say. Let's just say that closed minds are tough to crack open. They listened, but most of them didn't learn. I thought that if they heard it from somebody besides me it would help. Oh well...
I will take your suggestion on the tambourine. I've also got some small shakers and stuff. We'll see what happens. Thanks for taking an interest.
Carl
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Post by ccso8462 on Aug 22, 2007 17:07:56 GMT -5
Hey Chris, Thanks for the input. I know what you mean about the personal Woodstock thing. I like plenty of sound, but if I can't hear myself sing (as a congregation member) I can't really worship. I like music that makes me jump up and down, but I also like music that puts me on my knees. You've got to read your people and give them what they need.
I grew up in the 60's also, and heard/sang all the hymns. The 70's were really exciting when the Jesus freaks brought in some contemporary music themes. It's been an interesting trip.
I apologize to the rest of the members if we've hijacked this thread, maybe we better get back to the original intent. Or, I guess we can start a new a new forum for those of us that deal with music in a religious context. Whatever... I just want to play guitar!
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Post by ux4484 on Aug 22, 2007 19:55:41 GMT -5
What HiJack?, It fits right in IMO.
While I am Catholic, when a lad in northern MN we attended a Baptist church for 4 years. The local Catholic priest had to move between 4 parishes (counties apart) during the year, so we had only 3 months of Mass a year....and Mom and Dad needed to get 7 kids out of the house on Sunday morning....much to our benefit over theirs methinks. I enjoyed late 60's early 70's Gospel much more than what I had heard in church before that ("The Church" was still doing the Latin Mass with Gregorian chants in the early 60's). Those Baptist years gave me more of a feeling for music than I ever had previously. Even though I went back into "the fold", I still enjoyed the revivalist spirit of those years. In H.S. I played with a drummer buddy of mine and his guitarist co-worker at his West side store front Church. It's quite the challenge to watch a Minister and catch his cue's to start a riff to build on, it's one of the most spontaneous and challenging musical environs you can experience. When it goes right, it can be amazing. They had no rules except don't be louder than the Minister while he's still talking, but once he started singing, you could wail (even the guitarist with leads) I remember seeing the Blues Brothers with my girlfriend (now Mrs); When I saw the James Brown church scene I had the most stupid-happy look on my face, my Mrs asked me what was the up with me, and I told her: "I've been there, it can be like that" . BTW, on that Bass amp thing in church, after our first week (we were WAYYYY too loud), we scaled back to bringing our practice amps in, and the drummer brought pads to quiet the skins of their drums (the church had their OWN drums, amazing, because they had little else), it was just the right volume (though they were on "11").
I've tried to get on our musical directors good site to add more than the piano and organ to services, but they'll only do it for the kids Mass, which is not held in the church but the school chapel, and a CCD teacher has that gig wrapped up. Once or twice a year, she does play for one of the kids church masses, but she's rarely (or barely) in tune. I picked her up a clamp-on headstock tuner and gave it to her for Christmas a few years back. She was (I think) initially a bit insulted, but you can really hear the difference now when she does play. She has since thanked me for pointing out what she needed in a polite way. She's the nicest lady, but has her own unique sense of timing (if YKWIM). Once daughter #2 is in H.S. the Mrs and I will have more time on our hands and may join the choir, and maybe I can work something in then. I think it's great that mikebell and ccso are able to able to participate, I know something like that would fill the gig jones I've had of late.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 22, 2007 20:02:49 GMT -5
Carl, Well, I tend to think that we've been passing on what we've learned over the years to each other, even if some of the recent posts had a 'worship' orientation. I've no qualms about letting this continue, although I do wish that personal opinions about how some religions operate were kept under one's hat, so to speak...... those kinds of "things one has learned" are probably not what deep was asking for when he opened up the thread. sumgai
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Post by ccso8462 on Aug 23, 2007 14:54:11 GMT -5
Gai, I agree that this is not the place for our personal opinions on religion. Ux has some great points about playing with non-musicians like backing up the minister. That kind of thing really is a challenge. It's a whole different type of playing when you need to improvise more than just a solo on the spot, too. It's a fun thing to be a part of a tight group that is taking their cues from someone else and building the music on the spot. Kind of like a jam, but you have to be really aware of what is happening all around you.
Playing on a worship team is also different than normal performing in that you don't always get to do what you want to do. It's your job to serve the needs of the worshippers and sometimes their musical tastes are not as refined as yours. ;D
And strange as it seems, I sort of like Gregorian chant.
Carl
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Post by ux4484 on Aug 23, 2007 15:18:10 GMT -5
And strange as it seems, I sort of like Gregorian chant. Carl heh... I too sort of like them NOW, but a 5-6 year old ux, found no comfort in a Mass where the priest talked with his back to you in a language you didn't understand and sang in the musical equivalent of damp toast. ...Some of us were very happy for the reforms of Vatican II. I do have to say, I have as an adult enjoyed the Latin Mass entirely, but IMO, it's just too much for small children to comprehend. I'm glad you found something to relate to in my post. On other religious playing, my wedding band was also the house band for the Lutheran church of our drummer was a member of (they provided our practice space). That was also much fun.....and another story.
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Post by ChrisK on Aug 23, 2007 22:12:40 GMT -5
Comparative religions/faiths are always a difficult and touchy subject.
I speak on them from the perspective of one that wrote a research paper on comparative religion in college (shoe box(s) of index cards). I've learned that even tho I have a fairly jaded view of religion (man's attempt to be acceptable to God), I have great respect for faith.
While I've been on some boards where it seems to be more a battle for the most religious tag line rather than the actual theme of the thread, I've thoroughly enjoyed this thread.
Because, NO ONE got "wound up", became pontificating, took offense, flung dung, or anything.
Well done!
Wisdom is.
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Post by Runewalker on Aug 24, 2007 8:33:41 GMT -5
I've been in churches where the band was having their own Woodstock. A little too much for me. Perchance a little too much joyful noise unto the Lord. It made my ears hurt.
I've also been in churches where the congregation sat firmly on their hands and made a painful noise unto the Lord. It also hurt.
I've also been in churches where the parking lot had Cadillacs galore, but little congregational interest in the jean clad HIV positive bum that came in looking for some/any hope. (Mind you, the congregation DID all have the proper "uniform" on.) --CK Well, CK at least they still let you in churches. I grew up in a very fundamentalist protestant sect in West Texas, who sincerely believed that instrumentation in rendering hymns was forbidden. Hard on a budding teenage guitarist wannabe. Like many religions who, in CKs terms, devolve from spiritual connection, insight and ethereal experience into dogma, ritual and self-satisfaction, the cult seemed unaware that the prophet they followed was a rebel against dogma and smugness. It is interesting that the prophets whose legacies spawn movements started first with a personal journey of immersed trance and enlightenment, then surface back in the world repulsed by institutions rife with artifact, and devoid of spirituality. And the prophet rails. To then be driven out or martyred by the populace coddled by institutions. And we see the clash of dogma and discovery here in our little congregation. The religious wars of Strats vs Gibbies, Chevys vs. Ford, wage on, but thankfully less bloody than the run of the mill religious jihad. Brothers in this thread that espouse and lament the role of playing their instruments in support and lubrication of connection to Spirit, have a experiential path to where music meets universal spirit, the trance of being..... And the experience of the cloak of dogma, the restraints of expectations closing the door to spiritual experience. At some level, spirituality is trance, and rhythm is the conduit to trance and the foundation of music is .... rhythm. Hard to trance out on a tambourine. A foundation of lived spiritual experience is openness.... a foundation of institutional religion is closedness -- presumption, judgementalism, dogma, ritual. Isn't it odd? Don't we see it everywhere? The prophets again and again find their spiritual ether through acceptance, release of convention, trance and an open heart. Their disciples set about to make statues of the prophet and close the very doors to his or her experiential insight. Humans are a funny species. I once met a seriously lapsed Mormon (he even drank coffee!) who abandoned the institution as a teenager. After 2 tours in Vietnam, he returned to the homestead, where the elders tried to lure him back. He railed against (his perceived) shackles of the institution and said he quit as a teenager and would never go back. The elders replied, "you can not leave the Church.... the only way to break the bond is to be excommunicated .... while you are lapsed your are an 'Apostate'" Now that's some control. I guess that reminds us that Jesus was not a Christian, or "you can check in but never check out?" Music is spirituality.... let's hope it never becomes religion, but I suspect that it is too late. And strange as it seems, I sort of like Gregorian chant.
Carl
Kinda hard to find the back beat and jam to. Love and Kisses RW
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Post by jkemmery on Aug 24, 2007 10:12:53 GMT -5
It's only the percieved control on the part of the elders. Freedom comes from within ultimately. If in his mind he was no longer a part of their church, then he was no longer a part of thier church, regardless of the church's stance.
I used to play a Les Paul, and I like the humbucker sound. I alos like a whammy, so I play HSS or HSH strats.
There is a statue of Stevie Ray in your home town too ... (my former home as well)
I'm not sure where I'm going with this so I'll quit now. It was a ramble.
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Post by sumgai on Aug 24, 2007 13:47:57 GMT -5
It's only the percieved control on the part of the elders. Freedom comes from within ultimately. If in his mind he was no longer a part of their church, then he was no longer a part of thier church, regardless of the church's stance.
I used to play a Les Paul, and I like the humbucker sound. I alos like a whammy, so I play HSS or HSH strats.
There is a statue of Stevie Ray in your home town too ... (my former home as well)
I'm not sure where I'm going with this so I'll quit now. It was a ramble.And a good ramble it was.......... In essence, it takes two to tango, and if one of those two doesn't wanna dance, there ain't gonna be no tango tonight. Kinda reminds me of the Alcoholic that can't give himself permission to admit that he no longer an Alcoholic. (!) He too wants fervently to have others surround him to reinforce his self-delusional mantra, in this case it's "I was a drunk, therefore I'll always be a drunk, even if I haven't touched a drop of alcohol in 20 years". Such people are unwilling to acknowledge that others may be able to give themselves permission to get well, and get past the bad episodes in life. The second line in their mantra is "And you're a drunk too, even if you don't admit it." Needless to say, I spent about 15 minutes of my life one time, trying to straighten out a particularly obnoxious participant in this dogmatic scheme. I went back to playing in bars, in front of drunks who weren't afraid to admit what they were doing. ;D Any other statements I could make would be purely subjective, not to mention highly opinionated, so I'll just get out now, while the getting is good. sumgai p.s. Truth in Messaging Disclosure: It is now August 24th, and in exactly one week, I wll be dry for 30 years, even. That is literally one half of my life span. Don't anyone be thinking that it's time for me to flip over again........ I don't for a minute imagine that I have even half the skill of ashcatlt when it comes to drunk posting! ;D
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Post by Runewalker on Aug 24, 2007 16:04:01 GMT -5
It's only the percieved control ...
I used to play a Les Paul, and I like the humbucker sound. I alos like a whammy, so I play HSS or HSH strats.There is a statue of Stevie Ray in your home town too ... (my former home as well) [/size] [/size][/quote] Now that's some control. ...Everyone has a fantasy. I used to play a Les Paul, and I like the humbucker sound. I alos like a whammy, so I play HSS or HSH strats.[Everyones] gotta serve somebody..... - Bob Dylan There is a statue of Stevie Ray in your home town too ... Hail yeah!sorry SRV but looks like No. 1 could use a GN2 mod, and maybe a paint job. What is that anyway? ToneBronze?
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Apprentice Shielder
Posts: 33
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Post by blank on Aug 29, 2007 12:22:34 GMT -5
I use as much distortion as ever (28 years playing) but i tend to have two levels rather than all gain, all the time. I have a softer AC/DC type gain and then the all out assault. I pay way more attention to what is going on in my signal chain, that's for sure. When I was in my teens I had no clue!!! Honestly. Guitar cables to hook up heads & speakers; strange, home-done guitar wiring jobs; not knowing/caring what speakers were in my "Earth" cabinet. The list goes on.
In a way, it was probably better to be that way in those learning years because I concentrated on playing. There was no internet to distract me. On the other hand, technique wise if there were an internet I would've learned more. I pretty much taught myself from records and Guitar Player magazine.
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