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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 15, 2010 14:01:19 GMT -5
Have you adjusted the pickup height since you put them back on after shielding?
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 15, 2010 14:14:20 GMT -5
They're pretty close to where they where when I unintalled them. I may have raised the middle pup a little as it was slightly quieter than the neck.
The neck pup is the same as it was before exactly (I took measurements)
The bridge I don't think was high enough, but I little adustment the other day set it to roughly where it was before uninstallment, which was at a point where it was a little louder than the neck, just a tiny bit (i used a level meter and my ears to adjust the outputs).
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 18, 2010 13:54:03 GMT -5
In regards to your first and second diagram Sumgai, I dunno which is best for me. I'm not sure I understand I'm gonna have to read it over a few times. However, if I was to wanna include both styles of the tone control mod, a way around the notbeing able to run wide open on the bridge is to have a no load pot which allows no load on number 10. Now I read here: www.projectguitar.com/tut/pots.htmI can make a tone pot with no load by putting a bit of nail polish over a specific area of the pot inside(see weblink above and the photos on making a no load pot. If this is true then I might give it a try, but in playing about with pots and what not I've never pulled this off. Another way around it is if I had a double pot, which I dunno the name of correctly, which say had a no load pot on the bottom, then had a normal 1000k or 500k pot on the top, and I could push/pull which ever I wanted on with what ever pup?? Yes No? Lemmy know, I am just a wee learner guy on here who obviously dosen't know when to leave his guitar along. oh and also hear only he scrapes the stuff off: acapella.harmony-central.com/showthread.php?t=2121793
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Post by newey on Feb 18, 2010 19:53:22 GMT -5
Unfortunately, no. The term is a dual-gang pot, and to my knowledge no one makes a no-load version of that, nor are they generally available with differing resistances.
I believe dual gang pots with a pull to switch between the 2 elements may be available, but as far as I have seen, no one makes one in a resistance value usable to us guitarnuts.
Concentric pots are another possibility, I think those can be had with differing values.
I am using a 500K dual-gang pot for a master tone in my upcoming stereo Tele build, since each pickup occupies a separate channel when in stereo mode. I looked long and hard, and a 250K and 500K (both ends the same) was all I was able to find.
There's a link to these in References under "OEM Parts".
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allmektig
Meter Reader 1st Class
Non Serviam!
Posts: 88
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Post by allmektig on Feb 19, 2010 8:02:24 GMT -5
The guitar is still sucking turds at the minute. Something is not right. The best way that I can describe it is that the strings no matter how hard I'm playing aren't giving the same response out through the pick ups. You know that spongeyness you get when your all saturated up on gain, well that. Even when I stick compression on its still crap sounding. On the big rig it was awful, shrill and brittle. The pups are still giving the full power so its not that they are badly wired I don't think. The best way I can describe the effect I seem to be having is... like if you've ever experienced a poor connection somewhere along your cable and your getting like a weaker signal, and when you pluck strings its like your putting too much effort into it and getting half the response you should be getting. So gain doesn't seem as full to me. I'd say it feels like I'm getting 75% of the signal I used to. However I see no poor output connections anywhere. I've tested on all three setups I use and its crap on them all. could it perhaps be some kind of phasing issue?
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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 19, 2010 19:57:19 GMT -5
Well, you didn't tell us which positions of which switch(es) are giving you the trouble, so we can't be completely sure. There can't be phase issues when only one coil is selected.
Where exactly are you at with this mod? Have you implemented the final diagram in this thread?
I think it's time to bust out the old meter. Make a "truth table" where you map out all of the various combinations of switch positions. Turn volume and tone to 10. Plug in a cable and connect your meter with one probe on the tip and the other on the sleeve. Alligator clips work well for this. Now set your meter (if it's not auto ranging) to something like the 20KΩ resistance setting. Switch around and write down what you get for readings in each position on your table. Report back.
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Post by sumgai on Feb 20, 2010 3:44:58 GMT -5
ash, Your diagnostic procedure is good, but be prepared for when Gerry reports back that he's pulled out all his hair because in series mode, position 3, he reads 'OL'. It's that durned Middle pup being in series with a cap that just happens to also block DC, it'll get 'em every time........ Not to mention that while still in series mode, position 2 will read the same as position 1, and ditto for 4 & 5. Same culprit. HTH sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 20, 2010 10:52:04 GMT -5
Yeah, I expected those issues. Probably a good idea to warn him, though.
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 23, 2010 10:26:28 GMT -5
Things are better people but I'll go through suggestions and questions one at a time
Posted by allmektig
Its definately not, I recognise the phase type sounds having wired a humbucker up wrong, extremely thin and not loud, I still have loud pup's it appears. However read on.
Posted by ashcatlt
I was having or am (you'll need to keep reading to see where I am in the case of the trouble I was having) having the crap sound overall, so every selection possible was not what it had been. Of course using some of the series selections was better than the pup's on their own but it still wasn't nice.
Oh and where I'm at in terms of diagrams is my own personal last diagram. I haven't implemented any of Sumgai's ideas yet till I got the sound sorted out. I will however be trying the third diagram of his which allows tone switching all round the settings. I will attempt to make a no load pot however, so as I can have the bridge open or middle open should I choose.
Can someone validate my earlier post of how to make a no load pot fiorst of all though before I try this?? Thanks
Keep reading
Okey doke, it seems where I had insulated the output jack from coming into contact from the shielding in its cavity was affecting the connection made by a jack once it was inserted. I had crudely wrapped a bit of tape around the jack socket. So yeah when I checked it it seems like a crappy connection was happening, it was connecting but barely and it was intermittent on wigglying. So I took the tape off, and rather than insulate the jack socket I put the tape on the wall of the cavity where the pin would come into contact with the shielding. Hopefully this doesn't affect the shield right?
Anyways that solved the poor connection as the pin of the socket was able to move freely on insertation of a jack and it didn't come into contact with the shielding cause I've a bit of tape on the sides preventing it from doing so.
So there was some improvement, I played a whole 6 hours on sunday and deemed things to be "better".
But I still think the guiar has sounded better and I'm starting to think its a string problem.
The strings I've been using have been a new brand I've been trying for the last few months. One thing about these strings I noticed despite a good tone initially was, they would discolour quite quickly. I have a circulation condition which affects my hands and this mean I've always sweaty or clammy hands, so this starts to affect my strings straight off and I think this brand of strings can't take the sweat to well and have may be been crappin up my sound. When they go a near black colour they become harder to slide about on despite my efforts of wiping and cleaning the strings a lot.
I put a new set on my Flying V the other day and noticed some strings just sounding like they were being muted somewhere, the seemed to ring out for the same amount of time as normal but they sounded a bit like something was dampening them either at the nut or the bridge. I can't see anything at the bridge and I cleaned the grooves in the nut with a tooth brush so no dirt was left in it. And the results........the strings still sounded the same.
So crap strings guys or what??
I have a new brand of strings I specifically have choosen as apparently they are treated to stop string discolouration. I shall be putting these on my strat tonight.
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Post by D2o on Feb 23, 2010 10:54:12 GMT -5
The partial short at your jack is very unusual ... usually it works or it doesn't (it's shorted or it isn't ... there's sound or there's silence, etc.).
I am glad that you have seen improvement, but I wonder if you should not resolder the jack ... maybe the solder joints weren't great to begin with? I dunno ... that's a little odd.
You could try some other coated strings - Elixirs, for example, and I think others make coated strings ... D'addario EXP, maybe. There are likely a few manufacturers that offer at least one coated string option.
What do you use now - the ones you are questioning?
D2o
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Post by D2o on Feb 23, 2010 11:03:40 GMT -5
By the way - how old are these strings we're talking about? Was the 6 hours you played their first six hours on your guitar?
New strings sound a little different than used strings (not necessarily a good different), and can even buzz a bit until tey get nice and "broken in".
Also, did you happen to change to a lower string gauge, by any chance?
If so, that would reduce output, and could reduce tension which may then result in some fret buzz - and, therefore, deaden things a smidge.
D2o
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 23, 2010 11:05:03 GMT -5
I was using a brand called www.newstrings.co.uk/acatalog/NEWSTRINGS.htmlThe are very strong but they went black on me very quick and as I said I'm suspect over the strange muting effects I'm getting. The muting effect is more noticeable when the guitar is unplugged, i'e played acoustically. I've never heard anything good about Elixirs but I have thought about trying them. I'll see how I go on with this new brand Olympia, just happened upon them and I've 3 packets of em to try. I have used Dean Markly on and off and Daddario also. Daddario being the best to my ears and Dean Markleys sounding a little duller but reliable at least. I despise Ernie Balls and Rotosound. They don't suit my guitars or set ups at all. I really hope it is just strings, otherwise its voodoo or something.
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 23, 2010 11:26:30 GMT -5
By the way - how old are these strings we're talking about? Was the 6 hours you played their first six hours on your guitar? New strings sound a little different than used strings (not necessarily a good different), and can even buzz a bit until tey get nice and "broken in". Also, did you happen to change to a lower string gauge, by any chance? If so, that would reduce output, and could reduce tension which may then result in some fret buzz - and, therefore, deaden things a smidge. D2o When I reported the badness I reckon the strings had only did 8 hours, they'd been on for may be a week and a half. I would still have classed these as "new". I change my strings every 2 to 4 weeks. Old strings are un usable to my ears, they're dead. I need sparkle 24/7. I did clock up another sweaty 6 hours on the same strings the other night and this is because I'm about to replace them tonight. I often wondered why new strings buzzed way more than old ones. I thought it was or is just because the old ones have dirt on them softening the contact between them and the frets. Makes sense. I'd never change my string gauge, I play 10 - 46. Anything less is like playing with elastic and anything more is like playing with "elevator cables". I've played 10's for about 10 years and I'll not be changin anytime soon I imagine. [glow=red,2,300]oh I forgot to mention that I lowered my pups all round by a few about 270degrees each screw, I don't believe this was my problem anyways there is a massive distance between my strings and their pole pieces in my opinion[/glow]
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 25, 2010 10:38:40 GMT -5
Is it me or could I just forget about the whole extra modding and have a no load pot for a tone control on the middle and bridge pup and basically that will allow me to turn the tone control on or off for either pick up?
Basically doing what the mod would achieve but in a much easier way??
I've tried making a no load from a pot I already have, but I've no idea if it will work or not so hopefully it does. I will report back. But in mean time can someone see if I'm barking mad or on the right trail with the no load idea.
I mean If I want the tone control for both pups I solder a jumper to both tabs on the 5 way, and if I want the tone control moved I turn the knob to 10 and the load disappears.
So far on my multimeter the pot will have a normal reading all the way round to 9 and given that its a 1meg pot I'm using, its roughly at 1035k on 9 and then the meter indicates no reading once I turn to 10 which on my meter is displayed as a number 1. The rest of the pot works as normal.
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Post by newey on Feb 25, 2010 11:34:27 GMT -5
I don't know what you mean by "forget the whole extra modding". You have a series/parallel switch for the HB and another for the HB plus other pickups. What other "extra modding" would you propose doing away with?
A "no load" pot used on the B and M pups will, when set at "10", take the tone pot out of the circuit for either or both of those pups, depending on the 5-way selection. That's all it will do. And using a "no load" pot is not quite the same as running a pickup directly to the output; whether the difference is discernible or not is for your ears to judge.
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 25, 2010 12:28:33 GMT -5
I don't know what you mean by "forget the whole extra modding". You have a series/parallel switch for the HB and another for the HB plus other pickups. What other "extra modding" would you propose doing away with? A "no load" pot used on the B and M pups will, when set at "10", take the tone pot out of the circuit for either or both of those pups, depending on the 5-way selection. That's all it will do. And using a "no load" pot is not quite the same as running a pickup directly to the output; whether the difference is discernible or not is for your ears to judge. I mean perform the extra modifications in the diagram 3 provided by Sumgai. These are mods right? Well I see them that way so this is what I meant cause I haven't attempted them yet as I have already said before on clarifying which stage I was at for ashcatlt a few posts ago. I doubt there is a whole lot of difference in sounds from no load rather than running direct to output. If there really, really is going to be a difference will it be noticeable? All I'm really looking to achieve is allow myself a tone control for the bridge and middle pup and when I want to run the bridge open I can, its just means I can run the middle open if I want as well with a "no load".
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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 25, 2010 13:21:50 GMT -5
I can't imagine what would be the difference between the no-load pot and the "wide-open" option that SG drew up. Turning it up to 10 should be effectively the same thing as removing the tone pot altogether.
It's not the same thing as a "blower switch" since the volume pot will still be in circuit, but AFAIK that has not yet been mentioned in this thread.
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Post by rabidgerry on Feb 25, 2010 13:56:41 GMT -5
Well I'm trying the no load tonight when I get home so I'll see how I like it. I agree ashcatlt, but who knows!!! Could be some of that old superstition madness creeping in. I like the simplicity of the No Load option, I can't be "arsed" pulling the 4p3t switch out again for yet more jiggery pokery!!! Its a fiddly beast as it is!! Whats are these things? Blower Switch? AFAIK?
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Post by ashcatlt on Feb 25, 2010 14:49:18 GMT -5
Blower Switch - Routes a pickup (or combination) directly to the Jack, bypassing all V and T controls. AFAIK - As Far As I Know.
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 1, 2010 10:58:55 GMT -5
Ok, now I've implemented the jumper wire on the 5 way switch creating a tone control shared by bridge and middle pick up.
The tone pot for this control has been turned into a no load.
I was already a 1meg pot before that.
I can confirm the results as:
No different when on no load from when it was originally at the top of the 1meg pot, so the 1meg value was obviously enough to pretty much allow most of the pickups open tone out.
I now have a tone control for both pups and Should I want them without the tone knob I keep the control at the top and roll back to 9 or wherever I want should I want to reduce the high end.
I little surprised that creating the no load had virtually little affect, the middle pup sounds no different on number 10 than it did before it was a no load and same for the bridge when it din't have a tone control.
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Post by ashcatlt on Mar 1, 2010 15:05:25 GMT -5
Yeah, I guess if we'd actually read what you were typing we probably could have predicted that. Especially with SCs, 1M is pretty close to wide open. Even with HBs I think the difference would be a fraction of a db off the very tip of the resonant peak. This would be extremely subtle through a full-range system, and your guitar amp isn't anywhere near full-range.
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Post by rabidgerry on Mar 4, 2010 11:40:58 GMT -5
;DAmazingly I totally messed something up during the making of a tone control for the bridge pick up. Since all my connection on the 5 way are made on one side leaving a side totally blank what did I do? Well the jumper from the mid pup to the bridge pup I made just by connecting a wire from the already occuppied mid pup tab on the 5way to the already occuppied bridge tab on the 5way. Can you guess what was happening? Well pretty much what I can make out was I was having the bridge a mid pup in parallel all the time in standard mode. I only found this out when I thought my humbucker in series sounded a little, well too straty, like the way it does in single coil mode. I can't believe it took me a week to notice!!! ANWAYS I tested it all out and the multimeter was telling me crazy stuff and the only pup on output that seemed to be giving me the correct readibng was of course the neck!! So I thought about all this logically and figured out the conclusion. Armed with the multimeter I opened the strat up, connectd the meter to the output, set to bridge on the 5way (just regular bridge in series humbucking, and no global series mode) and got the reading of 6.67k. I snipped the jumper wire from the mid tab to the bridge tab and watched the meter out put for the bridge humbucker jump up to 13.6k!!! Sooo finally got something sorted without having to come cry about it to you guys!! So next up I attached the broken jumper to the bridge tab on the other unoccupied side of the 5way and............ everything stayed ok!!!!!! Bridge output was still normal but I had given myself the tone control to operate both mi and bridge pup!! Few Gonna post a truth table on the original 3 mod thread I started 100 years ago.
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Post by lakesidepark on Jul 2, 2018 14:31:09 GMT -5
One simple little doubt, the ground wire of the strat tremolo is wired with the pickups, volume wires at the star ground, or is wired after the 330nF/630V capacitor. In original article I'nst clear to understand. www.singlecoil.com/docs/shielding_strat.pdfThanks
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Post by newey on Jul 2, 2018 22:13:57 GMT -5
LSP-
See my welcome, and my response, in the other thread on this topic.
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