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Post by treguiers on Nov 11, 2009 10:34:05 GMT -5
Yeah newey, all switches pups work as they are supposed to. I can live with the guitar as is, I was just throwing it out to anyone else considering the mod as something to think about before commencing.
And now to my tele.................
Thanks everyone.
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Post by sumgai on Nov 11, 2009 12:43:26 GMT -5
So this is where we ended up? Just to complete the picture, you understand. (Not to mention, just to complete ash's train of thought. ;D) BTW, I just realized.... I accomplished the same combos in my own guitar with only a superswitch and a 3PDT switch (either a toggle or Fender's S1 will work for this). Using the S1, there were no extra holes - stealthy, to say the least. A mini-toggle also works well, and is easy to install - much easier than cutting a long, narrow slot. sumgai
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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 11, 2009 17:17:29 GMT -5
Now I'm all kinda confused. I guess that's nothing new. I could have sworn that the "auto-split" feature had been abandoned (going back to the original scheme) in favor of a push-pull split (which I fixed).
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Post by treguiers on Nov 11, 2009 19:48:36 GMT -5
I did opt for the push pull in the end. I use a suhr dsv HB and the north pup hasn't a bad sound by itself. Had I known about the above diagram I would not have opted for the split and would not know about the sweet sound of the single coil on the dsv.
Sumgai,Newey, and Ash- you guys are legends Thanks again
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Post by newey on Nov 11, 2009 20:54:20 GMT -5
As some may have noticed (particularly on this thread), SG and I are both old. And, on occasion, we show it! My gerontologist tells me that attempting to keep straight all the goings-on in these threads is good mental exercise and may save a few neurons, all of which I need.
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Post by ashcatlt on Nov 11, 2009 23:18:39 GMT -5
Maybe we'd ought to pass the hat and buy some gingko for our mods.
Who's in?
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Post by sumgai on Nov 12, 2009 2:18:21 GMT -5
(NOTE: Actual time of writing - 4:41pm PST.... time of posting, due to wife hauling me outta the chair and offa my butt for some make-work - 11:18pm. Sigh.)ash, Well, yeah, tre did mention something about having to do the "short job", due to time constraints. But your description was enough for me to modify the drawing as now shown. If tre doesn't wish to use it, that's OK with me, and I'll bet it's fine by you too. Personally, I just like a clean appearance to show how an option can be implemented. Call it another notch in my drawing table. sumgai
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Post by treguiers on Nov 12, 2009 6:54:08 GMT -5
Hey, Knock yourselves out guys. I have my strat the way I want it.I didn't do any inventing here, I just did the donkey work and cried HELP a lot. I personally believe there may be a lot of interest in this mod. It has an operational ease that will appeal to a lot of guitarists. Each of the new sounds has wide range of uses. Bridge and neck in parallel is another kind of quack Middle and bridge in series gives a kind of 70s rock sound Neck and Bridge in series has a kind of tele thing going on Neck and bridge in series but out of phase is Brian May territory. Plus you have your regular strat sounds, plus......did I mention its simplicity? Go for it guys, you may be on to a winner
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Post by sumgai on Nov 12, 2009 12:32:39 GMT -5
Simplicity? Did someone mention "Mike Richardson"? ;D Tre, Glad to hear that your mod suits you to a T! This Forum isn't about anything, if it ain't about helping members realize their goals, and this is yet another case of success. This whole thread has keyed me into updating an old thread I started long ago. The drawing board is warming up on another screen even as I post this. We'll see if I can sneak past the work-monger for an hour or two, and get something useful done sumgai
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Post by treguiers on Nov 14, 2009 9:50:42 GMT -5
Just one more thing. Position 2 of the normal strat sound(ie bridge and middle) seems slightly muddy. I'm using the north coil of the bridge HB.
Now maybe I'm comparing it to the neck/bridge in parallel sound( a sound that knocked me out) or maybe the north and middle aren't the best combination for those particular pups.
It just seems to lack a sparkle, maybe I'm just spoiled from my other sounds. Or there may be an electronic tweek I'm overlooking.
Had the strat out with an 8 piece soul band last night and it was a monster. Thanks guys.
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Post by treguiers on Dec 19, 2009 14:41:01 GMT -5
Hi everyone, As I use this mod more and more the sound i'm really digging is the mid and bridge in series. I really like allthe others but this particular one really flicks my switch. I notice that all the extra sounds of this mod involve the bridge in some combination. I'm thinking I would like some way of having the neck and mid in series. I've stared at the above mod for quite some time, but keep getting unstuck(maybe due to the fact that I'm a bit of a novice electronics wise) In trying to keep a certain symmetry with the original strat 5 way I'm thinking: Pos 5(new superswitch) bypass pos 4 neck mid in series pos 3 as is mid bridge in series pos 2 neck bridge in parallel pos 1 neck bridge in series The push pull switch already installed would switch the phase of the bridge for some out of phase combinations. I am studying this hard at the mo, but the laws of electronics and wiring are something I'm on a learning curve with...... So yet again any help would be well appreciated
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Post by JohnH on Dec 19, 2009 16:12:58 GMT -5
tg - it must be possible - you have more switch-power there than on almost any other scheme! Is there one of the combos that you would give up to get the NxM?
btw - NxM is my favorite series setting
John
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Post by sumgai on Dec 19, 2009 21:42:12 GMT -5
tre, The short answer is "sorry 'bout that, but the anwer is No'. The reason is, in order to get B*M, you must control the negative lead of one or the other, and at this point, you don't have a switch pole free to do let you do that. However, if you're willing to wait until the oats have been through the horse..... ;D You could use the unused pole of the old Strat standard switch to get this control. What that means however, is that you now must remember where that switch is sitting (selecting Middle or what.... ) in more than just the first "Bypass" position. Not to mention, you now must have both switches set in exact positions to get what you want. Move the old Strat selector off that position, and you won't get the desired combo. All in all, probably not a good idea, from the standpoints of both easy and reliable operation. sumgai
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Post by treguiers on Dec 19, 2009 22:54:41 GMT -5
As I put in a push pull before sumgai came up with the way to have humbucker in the bridge only, i was thinking of using the push pull for turning the bridge out of phase. this would give me the oop sound where there's any bridge combination. This means that i could give up the BxN oop(pos 1 on my set-up)
For the NxM I'd have to have the N+ going to the M-. Where I'm getting stuck is N- and M- are in the same place. Separating them messes up other combinations, but like i said before I'm a total novice at this.
I would like to have all series and parallel connections(Ihave all but NxM already) Basically, I would like to maximize the possibilities of this switching system, but i don't want to add any more switches.
Again, any input will be very warmly received
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Post by treguiers on Dec 19, 2009 23:03:43 GMT -5
hi sumgai, you obviously posted your response while i was typing the above one.
could i use the push pull to turn the mid pup around. to give series/ parrallel combinations for N and M and B and M??? Is it the most efficient use of the push pull?
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Post by sumgai on Dec 20, 2009 2:51:08 GMT -5
tre, Yes, that would work. I dunno about the "most efficient" part, that's always up to the user his/herself, not to me or any other designer. Your problem, of course, is that in order to achieve just one particular combo, you must "juggle" two switches (at a minimum). If you leave the push-pull down, what's the resultant combo? Things like that are what we call "gotcha's", and being careful in the design stage will usually catch this sort of thing before the solder starts melting. But I have to tell you, at this point, you aren't asking for too much, but are are going about it in a harder manner than necessary. What if I told you that you could have not only all the normal parallel combos (the usual Strat stuff), but also: B*M B*N M*N B*M*N and B+M+N with only one DPDT switch, like your push-pull, in addition to just one superswitch - how would that ring your chimes? This would be the far-famed Mike Richardson mod, version 2. Check it out: An additional phase switch (or two) gets all the possible permutations of in or out of phase. Ah, I see you've already noted that there's a stranger in the midst..... "normal" combos have the B+N replacing the M in position 3. That's Mike's personal preference, but you're not locked into it. A couple of wired moved one way or the other, and you get M in pos. 3, should you so desire. BTW, you might try B+N before you summarily dismiss it. Lot's of folks prefer it over M alone, myself included. (Although my Strat gets both tones, so I'm a fine one to talk. ) And no, I haven't forgotten, you've invested some time, money and effort in modifying your pickguard, but as far as I'm concerned, I've merely given you yet another option, another way of reaching your tonal goals. But in case it hasn't struck you by now, your "standard" Strat 5-way (the one with three solder lugs on each pole, besides the common) is really a DP3T (with detents for shorting selections) - you can imitate Mike's DPDT switch just fine, and use your current parts. Just some food for thought, that's all. sumgai
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Post by treguiers on Dec 22, 2009 15:09:22 GMT -5
So I have my normal 5 way my superswitch and 1 push pull. You are saying that all I need. How would that manifest itself on the guitar? Would I be putting a lot of energy into flicking switches? I've come to the decision that whatever the mod, it has to be simple operationally.
B+N is one of the mods I already have.
With regard to "turning the mid pup around" Am I right in assuming that one way would be series the other parallel, or am I getting that mixed up with phase?( ie....switching the + with the - on the mid pup)
Anyway, before i forget HAPPY CHRISTMAS everyone!
Take care Eamonn
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Post by treguiers on Mar 16, 2010 20:02:25 GMT -5
The addition of the S-None switch (it does aboot the same thing as an S-1 AmDlx Strat, but only uses two poles, so it can't be as techno'whizzy). As I have a push pull on my strat and one of the positions on the super switch leaves the strat in normal mode, can I incorporate ChrisK design above with what I already have? a little knowledge is a dangerous thing!
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Post by newey on Mar 16, 2010 20:35:27 GMT -5
Tre-
A P/P pot can easily be used to switch in or out a "special cap", whether you can implement ChrisK's scheme to get N * M, well, I'm going to have to take a long look at the original diagram back there in this thread to see if that can work.
Chris's scheme adds the cap so that there are no redundant settings with the switch pulled up- if you left the cap out, you'd have M alone twice, and N*M and B*M twice.
You already have B * M, so adding the N * M, and the cap options, are really all you're looking for, right?
Earlier in this thread, we were discussing substituting one position for N * M- you were willing to sacrifice the OOP setting and use a P/P for the phasing. But I gather we never really resolved the N * M thing, did we?
And I'm assuming you never made any such changes from the original Double Barrel diagram?
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Post by treguiers on Mar 16, 2010 21:20:20 GMT -5
Hi Newey, great to hear from you again. It's the original guitarnuts design except I added a push pull to coil tap a HB at the bridge. I think Sumgai resolved the coil tap issue with the diagram below. Although I have intentions to use that diagram, I haven't yet. So my strat is using the original design: sumgai I suppose in essence I just want to add n*m to my arsenal. I'd be well up for adding the cap. does it produce any interesting sounds? but if I could incorporate the two.....now that would be a schematic!!!!!!!!! a little knowledge and a lot of ignorance is even more dangerous!
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Post by newey on Mar 16, 2010 21:55:12 GMT -5
I think this can be done, after looking at it a bit. Although it's going to mean redrawing the diagram so as to have enough room to be readable. And I'm leaving town tomorrow and won't be able to tackle anything of the sort for a week or so. Others can probably help. My basic thought is that you would take the M+ from the common pole of the superswitch to the P/P as shown in ChrisK's diagram. The N- and M- both meet at the dual pot- which as I recall you haven't implemented- you put the P/P there instead, right? So those 2 grounds go to the P/P switch center terminal as shown. And the #2 terminal from the Strat switch goes to the P/P as shown. That's my thought, anyway, not sure that'd work or not . . Edit: As far as the cap sounds, it depends what you like, and also what cap you use- some experimentation may be in order, as ChrisK suggested. The idea of bleeding some of the pickup's signal through a cap is one of Leo's old tricks- the original Esquire wiring did this, using a pretty sizable cap, to try to attract Jazz players to solid bodied guitars. Depending on the cap value, it can provide a "jazzier" sound, a little bassier.
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Post by treguiers on Mar 17, 2010 5:20:54 GMT -5
thanks newey, it will take me a week to get my head around it, so no worries. thanks for the input..
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Post by treguiers on Mar 17, 2010 19:46:50 GMT -5
.........................On second thoughts I might just warm up the soldering iron and give it a go!
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Post by newey on Mar 17, 2010 23:55:10 GMT -5
Tre- well, you may want to wait for some more input before you dismember your axe. Me thinking something will work isn't exactly a final answer.
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Post by treguiers on Mar 18, 2010 5:36:52 GMT -5
However, you do seem to know more than you give yourself credit for. I've a few gigs coming up that I need the guitar for, but after that..........its screwdriver and soldering iron time! Anyway it's something that can easily be undone, Thanks
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Post by sumgai on Mar 19, 2010 0:37:16 GMT -5
Treg, ..... I think Sumgai resolved the coil tap issue with the diagram below. Actually, the solution to which you refer came from newey, and there's no shame in admitting that it was miles better than my "kludge". All I did was to simply put his suggestions into your original drawing. I believe I mentioned at the time that I did it "just for the sake of completeness", or something like that. HTH sumgai
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