Raz59
Meter Reader 1st Class
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Post by Raz59 on Sept 12, 2010 12:12:53 GMT -5
JohnH did only one revision to the new drawing. I'm not entirely sure if that's what you're referring to... and your original schematic had the bridge tone capacitor coupled to one of the lugs of the switch, that was changed in the new drawing and it may not be the only thing to differ from the original. This in turn complicates transforming Mix to Master, as one of the instructions you wrote no longer apply to the new drawing. Anyways, maybe JohnH can chime in on it. I'll quote post #61 as it underlines the only problem of the drawing. Raz - further investigation based on your observations of point 8 in your post above: The following diagram moves one wire at s3 (see thick blue wire - replacing a thin black wire that was going to ground). This is indeed an error that I will humbly own up to, although it wont fix the other issues. What was happening though was that the S3 switch was taking the central connection of the neck humbucker (green/black) all the way to true ground, which is OK except when it is supposed to be in series with the bridge humbucker (S1 pulled), in which case it was not only bypassing one neck coil, but also the whole of the bridge pickup. The clue was in the exact resistance reading of 4.25k, which was the same as the neck coil alone and showed that the bridge was being bypassed. Well, things like that happen with a new design. But please consider the other points in my posts above and lets see what else can be sorted out. cheers John
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Post by borsanova on Sept 12, 2010 14:12:55 GMT -5
Yes, I just studied that and I've found at least one more issue regarding the green wire from S5 which should go to the center lug of S1 instead. I posted it in the other thread which is in the Truly Nutz folder. Moreover I'm not getting what he changed on S1 and there might be another issue on S4. Let's wait and see what he says.
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Post by borsanova on Sept 12, 2010 18:29:18 GMT -5
JohnH did only one revision to the new drawing. I'm not entirely sure if that's what you're referring to... and your original schematic had the bridge tone capacitor coupled to one of the lugs of the switch, that was changed in the new drawing and it may not be the only thing to differ from the original. This in turn complicates transforming Mix to Master, as one of the instructions you wrote no longer apply to the new drawing. You're right, I've studied John's schematic and it is completely different from mine, though it achieves almost the same goals. So you can't thus simply switch to the master version. Moreover that tone capacitor coupled with a lug had an important function in my design. While checking John's circuit I have noticed that it probably not allows for good braodbucker sounds. I have proposed to fix it by reconnecting a tone capacitor (this time the neck tone) to a switch lug. You can see my proposal on the other thread in the Nutz board. Let's wait and see what John thinks about it.
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Post by JohnH on Sept 12, 2010 19:04:33 GMT -5
the best way to understand what I was doing is from the schematic sketch on my diagram. Can you follow that? (but I see there is one line missing on it!, from the lower connection of the neck volume, it should drop straight down to the S1B centre lug - its oK on the wiring diagram however). On teh 'broadbucker' I believe the diagram keeps the tone pots specific to each pickup, so in series mode, you can bypass the neck pickup with the neck tone circuit, allowing the bright bridge treble to have an easier path and so be stronger. As I do it there, works on my guitar, but is there something else that it should do?
cheers
John
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Post by borsanova on Sept 13, 2010 9:47:05 GMT -5
Hhm, maybe I'm wrong because I don't exactly understand how a tone cap works. So I want to deliver a description in simple terms of what I thought to the present day: I thought that there were different parts of current carrying different frequencies and that a tone cap would provide those carrying the higher frequencies a way to leave the circuit before passing through the pickup. In such a world those frequencies would be lost even when the current passes the second pickup. Therefore the current would not be able to pick up the higher frequencies of the bridge pickup. In a different world however this might still be possible, thus allowing broadbucker sounds on your wiring. Reconnecting the cap as I proposed would have converged the lost current to re-enter the circuit before passing the bridge pickup. But in a world different from my imagination this would not be necessary. In any case, my design might be useful to avoid a load loss due to the neck tone cap. What do you think?
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Raz59
Meter Reader 1st Class
Posts: 71
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Post by Raz59 on Sept 13, 2010 10:58:19 GMT -5
Hhm, maybe I'm wrong because I don't exactly understand how a tone cap works. So I want to deliver a description in simple terms of what I thought to the present day: I thought that there were different parts of current carrying different frequencies and that a tone cap would provide those carrying the higher frequencies a way to leave the circuit before passing through the pickup. In such a world those frequencies would be lost even when the current passes the second pickup. Therefore the current would not be able to pick up the higher frequencies of the bridge pickup. In a different world however this might still be possible, thus allowing broadbucker sounds on your wiring. Reconnecting the cap as I proposed would have converged the lost current to re-enter the circuit before passing the bridge pickup. But in a world different from my imagination this would not be necessary. In any case, my design might be useful to avoid a load loss due to the neck tone cap. What do you think? I might be patronizing you right now...but here goes my attempted explanation: The permanent magnet of the pickups magnetizes the strings. When the strings move, it makes the magnetic field move, which in turn creates an electrical signal within the coils of the pickups - this is the alternating current that you're mentioning. That AC signal is a complex signal with several frequencies, seeing as there are 6 strings with varying amplitude and frequency of vibration. The coils themselves are the source of the signal; the finish line is the output jack. A capacitor allows high frequencies to pass through; if you put it between the signal and a variable resistor connected to ground, it'll enable you to selectively shunt these frequencies straight to ground. I don't fully understand your concept of the broadbucker. I'm not sure that I have it in my guitar either. JohnH's diagram is complicated, but the results are simple: I hear a louder, darker sound; each volume pot still controls each pup and when one goes to zero, it doesn't kill the sound (independent vol. controls) And the tone controls are like a normal LP, they cut the highs from each pup, respectively. I suppose your 'broadbucker' setting would increase treble frequencies rather than remove them?
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Post by JohnH on Sept 13, 2010 15:08:44 GMT -5
I had another look though the diagram, and I see I have both tone caps going to ground, whereas the neck one should not. So thanks for checking Bors!. Ill do an update to it soon No need for alterantive realities.
John
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Post by borsanova on Sept 13, 2010 20:09:16 GMT -5
I had another look though the diagram, and I see I have both tone caps going to ground, whereas the neck one should not. So thanks for checking Bors!. Ill do an update to it soon No need for alterantive realities. John Okay, finally we're getting to understand each other. I don't fully understand your concept of the broadbucker. I'm not sure that I have it in my guitar either. JohnH's diagram is complicated, but the results are simple: I hear a louder, darker sound; each volume pot still controls each pup and when one goes to zero, it doesn't kill the sound (independent vol. controls) And the tone controls are like a normal LP, they cut the highs from each pup, respectively. I suppose your 'broadbucker' setting would increase treble frequencies rather than remove them? Right. What you hear on your guitar (louder, darker) is a full series sound. This is like a high output motherbucker (~20kohm). Those pickups tend to be very powerful, but loose trebles. My broadbucker concept is a remedy to this loss. It is not exactly a treble booster, but the result is very similar and in my ears even better. Turning back your neck tone control you get the lower frequencies from both pickups (for lots of drive), but the higher ones only from your bridge pickup (lots of trebles). So the result will have exactly the same trebles as your bridge pickup alone, but more power in the lower range. For these reasons the broadest sound comes best with the bridge pickup in dual mode. Think of Slash in November Rain and you got an idea of what to expect. With the tone capacitor relocated you will soon listen to it.
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